Getting the shot

pauls1150 · Mar 12, 2021

I've known people who have had polio, whooping cough, tetanus, measles, mumps, flu, shingles, pneumonia ...
Ain't no way I'm skipping this; my 2nd shot is in about 2 weeks.
I've never had any issue with any vaccine other than sometimes a sore arm - like my Shot #1 - but it's never been anything to bother sniveling about.

brownie0486 · Mar 13, 2021

latest cdc guidelines

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-the-cdc-is-still-urging-caution-for-vaccinated-people-170328668.html

"WASHINGTON — People fully vaccinated against the coronavirus finally have guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But that guidance, issued on Monday, seems to have raised as many questions as it answered. Even as that guidance permitted small gatherings of unmasked people, it made no concessions to those wanting to travel or gather in somewhat larger groups."

CDC spokesman Thomas W. Skinner defended the new guidelines in an email to Yahoo News. “It’s a good first step until we have more people vaccinated and data around vaccine effectiveness when it comes to real world circumstances,” he wrote. “Until then it’s important to minimize cohorting of people, especially those at high risk, even if they’re vaccinated.”

"The rise of new coronavirus variants adds a perilous dose of unpredictability. And though more than 2 million people are being vaccinated daily, more than 90 percent of the American population remains unvaccinated."

rangerreece · Mar 14, 2021

“And the more people who are fully vaccinated, the CD [CDC] will continue to provide guidance on what you can do in the workplace, places of worship, with friends, and as well as travel.“

Thank God the government is able to tell us what we can and can’t do after everyone is vaccinated and the Pandemic is over. Without the government telling me how to live, work, and worship, I just don’t know what little ole me would do.

Omega Man · Mar 14, 2021

rangerreece said:
“And the more people who are fully vaccinated, the CD [CDC] will continue to provide guidance on what you can do in the workplace, places of worship, with friends, and as well as travel.“

Thank God the government is able to tell us what we can and can’t do after everyone is vaccinated and the Pandemic is over. Without the government telling me how to live, work, and worship, I just don’t know what little ole me would do.

I hear you on that-
For your consideration......
It seems like the day to day narrative has changed. Every morning the weather personalities advise viewers what they need for clothing when they leave their house. Around here, we don't have puddles.....it's now street flooding. The vehicle(s) that some drive are in contact with the manufacturer and calculate for the owner when the vehicle needs service. How about the refrigerators that keep track of the contents?

I hear you on that.......I'm afraid that many need the guidance you speak of...cuz without at least the suggestion of what to do- they are lost.

OM

glenfiddich · Mar 14, 2021

rangerreece said:
“And the more people who are fully vaccinated, the CD [CDC] will continue to provide guidance on what you can do in the workplace, places of worship, with friends, and as well as travel.“

Thank God the government is able to tell us what we can and can’t do after everyone is vaccinated and the Pandemic is over. Without the government telling me how to live, work, and worship, I just don’t know what little ole me would do.

I always welcome guidance on how to give myself and others the best chance of staying safe, especially in this time when so many feel freedom trumps responsibility. Our small county saw 218 new cases in the last ten days, almost all of them linked to places of worship.

Pete

mikegalbicka · Mar 14, 2021

glenfiddich said:
I always welcome guidance on how to give myself and others the best chance of staying safe, especially in this time when so many feel freedom trumps responsibility.
Pete

I agree totally. However, the government does not provide this near as well for me as my trusted source.

jeffshoaf · Mar 14, 2021

rangerreece said:
“And the more people who are fully vaccinated, the CD [CDC] will continue to provide guidance on what you can do in the workplace, places of worship, with friends, and as well as travel.“

Thank God the government is able to tell us what we can and can’t do after everyone is vaccinated and the Pandemic is over. Without the government telling me how to live, work, and worship, I just don’t know what little ole me would do.

Seeing as some folks need to be told to not use glue for hair-styling...

I'm still a bit flummoxed by medication ads telling folks to not take the medication if they're allergic to the medication.

gregfeeler · Mar 14, 2021

Advice is good

rangerreece said:
“And the more people who are fully vaccinated, the CD [CDC] will continue to provide guidance on what you can do in the workplace, places of worship, with friends, and as well as travel.“

Thank God the government is able to tell us what we can and can’t do after everyone is vaccinated and the Pandemic is over. Without the government telling me how to live, work, and worship, I just don’t know what little ole me would do.

I get some of that frustration, but on the whole, I would say that close to 50% of Americans really don't know what to do. Mark Twain said, "It ain't the stuff you don't know that will get you. It's the stuff you know for sure that just ain't so." A good friend who is a microbiologist told me of a post on Facebook about all the "experts" on the Corona virus: "How come all my idiot friends from high school are now microbiologists?" I see both statements borne out by all the people practicing behaviors - let me put this carefully - which are not scientifically valid. How else do you explain why the Untied States has the highest total deaths from this disease? 528,456 - over twice #2, Brazil.

A people need trusted leaders and authorities. We need to be able to trust scientists, doctors, educators, economists, and so on to inform us enough to make rational decisions about things we really don't, and never will, understand completely. Without trusted expert voices individuals really don't know what to do about any number of things, and as a nation we will lose our effectiveness as a representative democracy. Uninformed voting is ballot box Russian roulette.

Some people justify doing reckless behaviors by saying that the "experts" are always changing their recommendations, so obviously don't know what they are doing. Indeed! Those medical experts trying to help us should be ashamed that they didn't look up what to say and do in the "Big Book Of Answers To Questions Never Asked". To me, it is actually encouraging that the assessments, advice, and guidelines do change - it proves experts are paying attention to the data and providing new knowledge for our benefit. No successful military commander would issue orders and then refuse to revise them in the face of a wildly changing battlefield. And, the world is at war with this disease.

mlytle · Mar 14, 2021

GREGFEELER said:
I get some of that frustration, but on the whole, I would say that close to 50% of Americans really don't know what to do. Mark Twain said, "It ain't the stuff you don't know that will get you. It's the stuff you know for sure that just ain't so." A good friend who is a microbiologist told me of a post on Facebook about all the "experts" on the Corona virus: "How come all my idiot friends from high school are now microbiologists?" I see both statements borne out by all the people practicing behaviors - let me put this carefully - which are not scientifically valid. How else do you explain why the Untied States has the highest total deaths from this disease? 528,456 - over twice #2, Brazil.

A people need trusted leaders and authorities. We need to be able to trust scientists, doctors, educators, economists, and so on to inform us enough to make rational decisions about things we really don't, and never will, understand completely. Without trusted expert voices individuals really don't know what to do about any number of things, and as a nation we will lose our effectiveness as a representative democracy. Uninformed voting is ballot box Russian roulette.

Some people justify doing reckless behaviors by saying that the "experts" are always changing their recommendations, so obviously don't know what they are doing. Indeed! Those medical experts trying to help us should be ashamed that they didn't look up what to say and do in the "Big Book Of Answers To Questions Never Asked". To me, it is actually encouraging that the assessments, advice, and guidelines do change - it proves experts are paying attention to the data and providing new knowledge for our benefit. No successful military commander would issue orders and then refuse to revise them in the face of a wildly changing battlefield. And, the world is at war with this disease.

absolutely spot on! every point you made.

and many people justify doing reckless behaviors by claiming it is their "right"....

alancolon · Mar 14, 2021

GREGFEELER said:
I get some of that frustration, but on the whole, I would say that close to 50% of Americans really don't know what to do. Mark Twain said, "It ain't the stuff you don't know that will get you. It's the stuff you know for sure that just ain't so." ... How else do you explain why the Untied States has the highest total deaths from this disease? 528,456 - over twice #2, Brazil.

A people need trusted leaders and authorities. We need to be able to trust scientists, doctors, educators, economists, and so on to inform us enough to make rational decisions about things we really don't, and never will, understand completely.

I have been preparing for biowarefare and pandemics for 25 years. The greatest resource for pandemic response is trust. In the 1918 pandemic, decisions were made for political reasons, including by some top public health officials.

I had hoped things had changed the last 100 years, but they have not. The one key thing I have learned from this pandemic is that science changes, but human nature does not.

Public health officials and policymakers have made decisions for political reasons. We have done things with absolutely no scientific basis. Public health officials have misled the public. Why are our deaths so high? Because we are counting deaths that are not counted by any other country.

1 - Motorcyclist hit by a truck. Postmortem COVID test comes back positive. Counted as a COVID death. Same with cancer, heart conditions, etc etc. Tests positive for asymptomatic COVID and has a heart attack a month later? Counted as a COVID death.

2 - PCR testing for COVID was doing FAR more replication cycles than is standard for diagnostic tests, driving false positives through the roof. It's estimated that perhaps half of all asymptomatic COVID cases are false positives. EDIT: This has driven up both COVID case numbers, and COVID deaths.

3 - Public health officials admittedly lied, telling people not to wear masks, that they didn't help, and were actually harmful. Fauci admitted he lied to keep masks available for healthcare workers, and allowed public health officials all over the country to lie. Get caught in one lie, and the credibility of the entire public health system was destroyed.

4 - Lockdowns were the biggest pubic health experiment in history. Throughout all human history, during pandemics, the process is this: Isolate the sick, quarantine the exposed (quarantine comes from the Italian for "14 days"), and the remainder goes about their business. There was NO scientific evidence backing lockdowns, and the evidence shows they were completely ineffective.

5 - Politicians making directives that are contradicted by evidence. For example, even with social distancing, restaurants have been closed. In California, the risk from restaurants was lower than gatherings in homes. Despite knowing this, they kept restaurants closed, refused to release tracing data, and tried to keep the information from courts reviewing the state's actions. The same is true in multiple other states.

EDIT: 6 - The idea that life can't go back to normal after people are vaccinated. Again, we have been doing this for over a century, with diseases that are FAR more deadly than COVID. Once people were vaccinated, they go about their business. But public health politicians are saying vaccination is not the end of the issue. Why? Why is this different than flu pandemics, smallpox, etc etc?

There are many more examples. Again, I believed this time would be different. But people stay the same.
Once people don't believe what they are being told, they will make their own decisions. You cannot blame them, the entire public health system failed them by putting politics ahead of science.

gregfeeler · Mar 14, 2021

alancolon said:
I have been preparing for biowarefare and pandemics for 25 years. The greatest resource for pandemic response is trust. In the 1918 pandemic, decisions were made for political reasons, including by some top public health officials.

I had hoped things had changed the last 100 years, but they have not. The one key thing I have learned from this pandemic is that science changes, but human nature does not.

Public health officials and policymakers have made decisions for political reasons. We have done things with absolutely no scientific basis. Public health officials have misled the public. Why are our deaths so high? Because we are counting deaths that are not counted by any other country.

1 - Motorcyclist hit by a truck. Postmortem COVID test comes back positive. Counted as a COVID death. Same with cancer, heart conditions, etc etc. Tests positive for asymptomatic COVID and has a heart attack a month later? Counted as a COVID death.

2 - PCR testing for COVID was doing FAR more replication cycles than is standard for diagnostic tests, driving false positives through the roof. It's estimated that perhaps half of all asymptomatic COVID cases are false positives. EDIT: This has driven up both COVID case numbers, and COVID deaths.

3 - Public health officials admittedly lied, telling people not to wear masks, that they didn't help, and were actually harmful. Fauci admitted he lied to keep masks available for healthcare workers, and allowed public health officials all over the country to lie. Get caught in one lie, and the credibility of the entire public health system was destroyed.

4 - Lockdowns were the biggest pubic health experiment in history. Throughout all human history, during pandemics, the process is this: Isolate the sick, quarantine the exposed (quarantine comes from the Italian for "14 days"), and the remainder goes about their business. There was NO scientific evidence backing lockdowns, and the evidence shows they were completely ineffective.

5 - Politicians making directives that are contradicted by evidence. For example, even with social distancing, restaurants have been closed. In California, the risk from restaurants was lower than gatherings in homes. Despite knowing this, they kept restaurants closed, refused to release tracing data, and tried to keep the information from courts reviewing the state's actions. The same is true in multiple other states.

EDIT: 6 - The idea that life can't go back to normal after people are vaccinated. Again, we have been doing this for over a century, with diseases that are FAR more deadly than COVID. Once people were vaccinated, they go about their business. But public health politicians are saying vaccination is not the end of the issue. Why? Why is this different than flu pandemics, smallpox, etc etc?

There are many more examples. Again, I believed this time would be different. But people stay the same.
Once people don't believe what they are being told, they will make their own decisions. You cannot blame them, the entire public health system failed them by putting politics ahead of science.

I'm sorry, but you are going to have to provide substantiation for all these things you are claiming which are not just your opinion. Post mortem Covid tests for highway accidents? What is the US counting criteria, and what is it in other countries? There were lockdowns in many locations during the 1918 flu pandemic in the US. And so on. The bottom line question, what - in your opinion - would you have done?

Omega Man · Mar 14, 2021

GREGFEELER said:
I'm sorry, but you are going to have to provide substantiation for all these things you are claiming which are not just your opinion.

As long as it doesn't turn into some political rant :nono

OM

gregfeeler · Mar 14, 2021

Omega Man said:
As long as it doesn't turn into some political rant

OM

Absolutely. I'm just asking for facts, and only the facts, mam. :brow

brownie0486 · Mar 14, 2021

alancolon said:
I have been preparing for biowarefare and pandemics for 25 years. The greatest resource for pandemic response is trust. In the 1918 pandemic, decisions were made for political reasons, including by some top public health officials.

I had hoped things had changed the last 100 years, but they have not. The one key thing I have learned from this pandemic is that science changes, but human nature does not.

Public health officials and policymakers have made decisions for political reasons. We have done things with absolutely no scientific basis. Public health officials have misled the public. Why are our deaths so high? Because we are counting deaths that are not counted by any other country.

1 - Motorcyclist hit by a truck. Postmortem COVID test comes back positive. Counted as a COVID death. Same with cancer, heart conditions, etc etc. Tests positive for asymptomatic COVID and has a heart attack a month later? Counted as a COVID death.

2 - PCR testing for COVID was doing FAR more replication cycles than is standard for diagnostic tests, driving false positives through the roof. It's estimated that perhaps half of all asymptomatic COVID cases are false positives. EDIT: This has driven up both COVID case numbers, and COVID deaths.

3 - Public health officials admittedly lied, telling people not to wear masks, that they didn't help, and were actually harmful. Fauci admitted he lied to keep masks available for healthcare workers, and allowed public health officials all over the country to lie. Get caught in one lie, and the credibility of the entire public health system was destroyed.

4 - Lockdowns were the biggest pubic health experiment in history. Throughout all human history, during pandemics, the process is this: Isolate the sick, quarantine the exposed (quarantine comes from the Italian for "14 days"), and the remainder goes about their business. There was NO scientific evidence backing lockdowns, and the evidence shows they were completely ineffective.

5 - Politicians making directives that are contradicted by evidence. For example, even with social distancing, restaurants have been closed. In California, the risk from restaurants was lower than gatherings in homes. Despite knowing this, they kept restaurants closed, refused to release tracing data, and tried to keep the information from courts reviewing the state's actions. The same is true in multiple other states.

EDIT: 6 - The idea that life can't go back to normal after people are vaccinated. Again, we have been doing this for over a century, with diseases that are FAR more deadly than COVID. Once people were vaccinated, they go about their business. But public health politicians are saying vaccination is not the end of the issue. Why? Why is this different than flu pandemics, smallpox, etc etc?

There are many more examples. Again, I believed this time would be different. But people stay the same.
Once people don't believe what they are being told, they will make their own decisions. You cannot blame them, the entire public health system failed them by putting politics ahead of science.

You be in trouble here now boy!!!!!!!

But what you posted is accurate, whether someone wants to believe different or not.

gregfeeler · Mar 14, 2021

alancolon said:
[snip]

1 - Motorcyclist hit by a truck. Postmortem COVID test comes back positive. Counted as a COVID death. Same with cancer, heart conditions, etc etc. Tests positive for asymptomatic COVID and has a heart attack a month later? Counted as a COVID death.

[snip}

Let's look at this first claim. This article explains that there are several process in place to make sure to ensure that the real cause of death is recorded on death certificates.

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/...study/65-e3842ed2-f753-4a15-8b97-c2ae75c2b2ce

alancolon · Mar 14, 2021

GREGFEELER said:
Let's look at this first claim. This article explains that there are several process in place to make sure to ensure that the real cause of death is recorded on death certificates.

Yes, but prior to COVID, only the top line of Part 1 of the death certificate was determined as cause of death.
Now, COVID *anywhere* on the death certificate (anywhere in Part 1 or Part 2) now is counted as a COVID death.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

Further, if ICD10 Code U07 (COVID) appears in their health record, it is counted as a COVID death.

Further, Colorado had to change the numbers they were reporting, because gunshot victims who had COVID or had tested positive up to 30 days before were reported as COVID cases: https://www.kmov.com/news/colorado-...cle_297e3550-4131-11eb-9f01-ffe3e11d0f46.html

Further still, at one point 25% of the reported COVID deaths did not have COVID on their death certificates: https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/

Even further still, the state Director of Public Health was threatened with criminal charges for overriding coroners' and physicians' determinations of cause of death, including gunshot wounds, and a guy who died of alcohol poisoning with a BAC of .550:
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/15/colorado-covid-coronavirus-counting-deaths-fatalities/

alancolon · Mar 14, 2021

Stats

I've been playing this game a long time. Statistics are routinely 'adjusted' to get the outcome desired. Often statistics are used that are not actually counting the same things.

For example, you often hear a stat that says the US has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world, and that is used as an indictment of the US healthcare system.

However, the US counts infant mortality differently that Europe. Here, if the child in born and dies any time within one second after birth to a year, they are counted as an infant mortality death. In Europe, if the child dies with 24 hours of birth, they are counted as stillborn, not an infant mortality case.
Since a significant percentage of infant mortality deaths occur as a result of birth defects or oxygen deprivation during birth, and die within 24 hours, in the US they count and in Europe they do not.

My point is, different definitions and different standards are often used to get the outcome desired. Use caution when comparing numbers, and you often are NOT comparing apples to apples.

Does anyone actually believe that India's COVID cases are 1/3rd of the US, despite having three times the population and horrific public health infrastructure? They are not. India simply isn't testing their population the way we are.
The same with Russia and China. We **appear** to have high rates, because we are testing everyone and their dog, for free, at tens of thousands of testing sites all over the country.

98lee · Mar 15, 2021

alancolon said:
Does anyone actually believe that India's COVID cases are 1/3rd of the US, despite having three times the population and horrific public health infrastructure? They are not. India simply isn't testing their population the way we are.
The same with Russia and China. We **appear** to have high rates, because we are testing everyone and their dog, for free, at tens of thousands of testing sites all over the country.

Whether we are the worst or tenth from the worst is irrelevant. Do they count death differently? During 2020 we had more than 300,000 more total deaths (of all causes) than the normal trends would have indicated. Why? I don't think it was because we had a huge increase of motorcycle crashes or a rash of people choking on ham sandwiches. There must be some other explanation. https://usafacts.org/articles/preli...deaths-in-2020-than-2019-coronavirus-age-flu/

Our responce and results are terrible for a country of our resources. Our response for too long was more based on denying the danger rather than getting serious about the danger. We have and are still paying for that attitude.

Our responce in too many areas seems to be akin to sending the fire department away once they have MOST of your house fire out. Which is definitely not what the countries that have been the most successful at dealing with the danger did. I wonder if this strategy in Texas and Florida will yield similar results to Sturgis? What could go wrong? :dunno

98lee · Mar 15, 2021

It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards would, through sheer chance, replicate the works of Shakespeare.

They would probably get all the words eventually, :deal

just not in the correct order. :dunno

pglaves · Mar 15, 2021

There is so much disinformation in this thread it makes me want to puke. It is worse than watching Alex Jones.

Getting the shot

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