Universal joint/driveshaft fail

2014 R1200RT drive shaft fail ( front universal joint ). Just a heads up to everyone my bike had 73,879 miles on it when the failure occurred. I was on a trip to western KY and made it as far as Eastern WV before having to pull over to investigate , noise and vibration, after putting the bike on the center stand ,starting it ,putting it in gear and letting out the clutch I knew I had a problem. According to my dealer Hermy's BMW in Port Clinton, PA this is the first failed shaft they have ever repaired. I don't believe it is a recall issue like the rear shock was it just happened.

Welcome to the forum!
This is the first I've seen mention of a problem on a Wethead.
Good luck with the repair. Let us know how this all works out if you can.
Gary

Thank you for posting. I was just reading this thread about an '07 drive shaft failure at I think 50K miles:

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/rt-series/168202-drive-shaft-destroyed.html#post1741938

The entire shaft w/ both u-joints for RT LC:



I haven't heard of this kind of mileage yet on many '14+ RTs but if yours is any indication whatsoever to have that fail at 73K miles starts making the case for routinely preemptively replacing it. Here are some other tales of woe on earlier model years:

"I was riding for about 45 miles in DC rush hour traffic and finally made it up to highway speeds. I was cruising along for about 10 miles at 85ish and the bike felt fine. I was listening to music through the scala and had ear plugs in, so I couldn't hear the bike very well but all of a sudden is was very rough and getting worse quickly[​IMG]. Felt like a mechanical issue with the final drive so I pulled over immediately. When I got off the bike I noticed a burning smell and saw some smoke coming from the rubber joint where the drive shaft meets the transmission(?). I pulled the rubber back some and the inside of the swing arm was torn up from the joint rubbing against the metal. The bike is a 2007 R1200GS with just over 80k."

"Same thing happened to me me coming back from a trip to Death Valley a couple months ago.
For me, it had done it's damage and I needed both a driveshaft and a swingarm.
Burned the boot and everything. New parts totaled about $2600."

"The front u-joint went on my 09 GSA at around 70k miles. I noticed it binding when I was doing a tire change and it felt like a warped rotor or dragging brake when I spun the rear wheel with the bike on the centerstand. I replaced it with new. Now I've got around 85k on the replacement and the rear u-joint is going. I sent the original shaft to Machine Service in Green Bay to have the joints replaced and am hoping to have it back next week. We'll see how long that lasts."

"Diddo. Bought my dream bike last summer (beautiful 2008 R1200GSA) with 40k on the clock and within 2 weeks and 800 miles, the front u-joint went. Being on a new bike, there is always the new feelings to get used to, but it started going bad quickly!"

"The forward U-joint on my '08 12gs failed at 51K miles while going about 70 down the freeway. The rear wheel locked up and the forward boot caught on fire. Kind of exciting. When I brought it to the dealer I was told that they had seen the same thing three times in the last four months. They had the replacement parts in stock. I spoke with a BMW engineer and he said it was "not uncommon". My bill was $2500 for the shaft, swing arm and two boots. Looking closely at the system and talking with the BMW engineers our guess was that the steel cap on the grease cup corroded and failed. That was likely due to water getting by the boot, either because the zip tie holding the boot on was not a sufficient seal or because of cracks in the boot. The water could have come from the multiple water crossings I did or by power washing to clean the bike after some off-road fun. My rear boot did have cracks in it. At a rally I chatted with about a dozen GS riders and when we checked their bikes we saw that nearly a third of their boots had cracks, something to check."

I would love to hear the real prevalence of u-joint failures because it absolutely makes the case for preemptive replacement of the driveshaft w/ joints--sounds like if you let it fail you're looking at a new swingarm as well which doubles the repair cost. Problem is, without good data on when these fail it's hard to know when to cough up the preemptive replacement cost.

Interesting that in that picture (33_1709), both the inner and the outer U-joints are not phased correctly... Is the faktory implying that it should be that way, or there a new methodology???

Pauls1150 said:

Interesting that in that picture (33_1709), both the inner and the outer U-joints are not phased correctly... Is the faktory implying that it should be that way, or there a new methodology???

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What does that mean, 'phased correctly', if you will?

Beyond the u-joints, what else fails (i.e., disassociated with damage secondary to a u-joint failure) in the final drive? Seems like they might be the most vulnerable parts in the final drive.

Omega Man said:

Welcome to the forum!
This is the first I've seen mention of a problem on a Wethead.
Good luck with the repair. Let us know how this all works out if you can.
Gary

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Thanks Gary,

My first time on this forum, I'm usually on the Sport Tour forum , was unaware this one existed but like what I have seen so far.

The bike broke down 6-7-17 was dropped off at Hermy's BMW on Fri. 6-9-17 ,they called several hours later with the diagnosis , the shaft was ordered and arrived and installed Wed. 6-14-17 at which time I brought it home and added another 4,000 miles . Total bill was $1,344.35 of which I paid $124.68 (deductible and state sales tax ) I purchased the extended warranty through Hermy's when I purchased the bike "ServiceGuard", 84 months of coverage and unlimited miles for around $1,150.00.

ncpbmw1953 said:

What does that mean, 'phased correctly', if you will?

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A past thread on driveshaft phasing:

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?36675-Paralever-U-Joints-Correct-Phase

Paul Glaves discussed in the ON May 2009 if you have the copy or want to read about it online on the MOA homepage.

ncpbmw1953 said:

View attachment 62574

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It looks like this pair is maybe 45 degrees out of phase, correct?

I have another question if you will. I've never seen how they work and I'm guessing the smaller diameter side of the drive shaft slides in and out of the larger diameter ones and that the splines keep them from slipping. Why is it that on wet heads it is not a recommended service to lube the splines, whereas it apparently was or at least was a common practice in prior models? Also, what is the full range of travel of the drive shaft splines?

^ Yes, out of phase in that drawing.

rhaines said:

I purchased the extended warranty through Hermy's when I purchased the bike "ServiceGuard", 84 months of coverage and unlimited miles for around $1,150.00.

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Congrats on that move. It just paid for itself.

NCP - it's worse than just 45 degrees: the inner joints are not aligned to each other AND the outer joints are not aligned to each other. Rotating the inner shaft with respect to the outer shaft May correct it, if indeed the particular model & year can be separated. (Gee, updating the parts fiche for a new model would have been the perfect time for them to correct this image...)
Here's another simplified picture of what they should be -

IIRC the driveshafts on newer models are not splined and separable in the middle like the brick-k shafts. With those shafts, the center splines needed cleaning and greasing at intervals, to keep the shaft from seizing up and putting excess loading on the u-joints as the suspension worked up and down. The newer shafts allow the rear knuckle to float back and forth on the rear splines, which thus need periodic cleaning and greasing.

The problem with the separable shafts is that people tend to not service that center section.

All IMHO, if course.

Best,
DG

Pauls1150 said:

NCP - it's worse than just 45 degrees: the inner joints are not aligned to each other AND the outer joints are not aligned to each other.
View attachment 62583

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That distinction doesn't make any sense to me because whenever the inner joints are not aligned the outer joints aren't going to be aligned either.

According to the shop mechanic I talked to yesterday during some service they are fused or at least don't move. When I asked him about the need to grease the short depth of splines on the front and rear he said the reason they do not state this is as a scheduled service has to do with the fact travel is only 1/4" or so for RT models and because of that there is no reason to take pull them out and clean and grease them. I imagine that recommendation is compromised if the boot isn't keeping water out for whatever reason where rust can develop and degrade the spline interface.

You get it. My picture is actually over-simplified: with the square tubes (artistic rendering only, not an actual driveshaft), there are only four possible ways of assembling the shaft, 90 degrees apart, and two of them would work ok. In a real shaft, the amount of possible error depends on how many splines there are - if there were ten, each "step" of assembly rotation would change the relationship by 36 degrees (one circle = 360 deg, divided by 10 = 36), twenty splines would allow 18 degree steps, and so on.

The shaft assembly has a rotational velocity; the goal here is that the velocity of the front joint must be equal to the velocity of the rear joint, which will not happen with incorrect phasing (assembly).

Yes longer suspension travel (like RT vs. GS) would make maintenance of these particular splines more important, but I just don't believe in any factory claim of "lifetime lubrication". It moves, it handles all the torque and horsepower that the engine can produce, it's under a lot of stress, and ignoring it can suddenly spoil the fun. Not as important as clutch splines (which must handle all that power before the transmission), but still worthy of some care.

DG - Thanks for clarifying that this shaft can be re-positioned, I wasn't sure about that - parts lists aren't always quite right... Considering that many people look at the fiche for "order of assembly", this is one place where the parts managers (or "technical writers") at the factory dropped the ball.
Side Note - I've said this before and I'll say it again: I have witnessed a Brand-New Factory-Sealed driveshaft assembly still in its original packaging... and it was assembled incorrectly.

Pauls1150 said:

...I just don't believe in any factory claim of "lifetime lubrication"...

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"Lifetime" has always been undefined by BMW regarding maintenance, for cars or bikes.

Pauls1150 said:

It moves, it handles all the torque and horsepower that the engine can produce, it's under a lot of stress, and ignoring it can suddenly spoil the fun.

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I don't see all 'it moves' as the same. By far the torque and horsepower is directly spline against spline, with a whole lot less of those forces involved in sliding-related friction. Some, but not much I wouldn't think. I guess the only way to really validate either of these theories is to know what the prevalence is of spline failures, or whatever else can be impacted if there isn't enough grease in that short throw of splines. Also, why ever would BMW not add spline maintenance to routine scheduled service? Just another opportunity to charge customers for the service, or to use it as ammunition to deny a claim for a failed drive shaft or final drive if the owner failed to do the service. Just doesn't add up. I think if you're under water or riding in heavy rain a lot the risk goes up for a boot failure or something along those lines.

Lifetime? Perhaps under ideal conditions. Lubed for life is really more like it-really.
A good example would be my Jeep. I noticed tell-tale rust streak near a couple of cups so I did the joints. As they were all (7) the same age and mileage, I did them all. In my experience, it's tough to see where the needles cross on a chart indicating how long a u-joint should last. Heat, wet, use-abuse and luck is a factor.
What I think would be nice is an easy way to perform a check of hidden joints.....or slip-shafts.
They even have u-joints go bad in NASCAR and that kind of part is well checked.
Hope for the best.
OM

A Best of Forum on U- Joint failure- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?70575-What-s-That-Noise-U-Joint-Failure

After reading some of the posts in that thread I don't like the sound of something that can lock up the rear wheel--that is enough of a Murphy's Law red flag. It really depends on how often this happens, and I don't know where you will get that data. Somebody is tabulating this data but probably is impossible to find out about.

I'll take a belt drive any day of the week--problem is it would be a poor final drive for boxer engines and their longitudinal crankshaft. Maybe failure rate is 5% at 80,000 miles. If so, it's needs to get to 0.5%. The typical worst thing that happens w/ belts is you sheer off teeth and eventually lose drive and I think a rear wheel lock up looks much less likely to happen--it's essentially an open system, whereas shaft drive parts are housed in a hard case and could then bind the bevel gear and apparently has on occasion, or at least that is the rumor I read.

Is it possible to take the drive shaft out and just replace the u-joints themselves on wet head models? If so, seems like a true no-brainer to do at 60-80K miles.

ncpbmw1953 said:

...Is it possible to take the drive shaft out and just replace the u-joints themselves on wet head models? If so, seems like a true no-brainer to do at 60-80K miles.

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As ncpbmw posted it's all one piece:

Digtlartst said:

As ncpbmw posted it's all one piece[/IMG]

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Yes I did!

OK well I guess what I will do before every ride is rotate the rear wheel to feel for compromise starting about about 50K miles--perhaps it's possible to feel for early deterioration especially if you do this often enough to know exactly how it should feel. This is a safety concern not only an inconvenient trip-jeopardizing concern. If indeed no 3rd party can replace U-joints in these shafts then I will plan on replacing it at X number of miles, maybe 70-80K. It's also an opportunity to clean and regrease splines. It's not too far away from the cost of two F/R tire replacements, and is arguably equally at least as important to not have fail. What's needed is prevalence rates for u-joint failures to determine just how rare or not it is.