"Fly in, Drive home" question

I posted this also on the clubhouse forum. I should have stated that this purchase would be from an individual, not a dealer.

I am considering the purchase of a used R1200GS located in NC (I live in KY). The seller has offered to pick me up at the airport. I would be able to get an insurance card OK from my agent with the VIN # on the bike, but I am confused on the legality of bringing the bike back to KY without a plate. One option that has been suggested is to bring a plate from my other bike and put it on the new purchase (I'm sure this wouldn't be legal but might get me home..........so has anyone had experience with this? and attorneys or LEO's out there with advice? What I have in my possesion would be a valid drivers license (no wants no warrants LOL), current insurance card with proper VIN for the new bike, Bill of Sale with sellers name and my name, signed Title from seller.

Thanks

I believe there is a grace period ranging from 15 to 45 days (depending on the state) that you have to register the vehicle after the purchase date. If you were to be pulled over by a LEO and showed him the title and insurance and you were still in your state's grace period, I think you would be ok.

Disclosure: I am not a lawyer and I could be wrong.

I would call your local license branch or sheriff's office, and ask them about it. I'm sure that they could give you the correct answer for your state.

Have you called your division of motor vehicles about this issue? I could not figure out a legal way of doing it. It seems "the system" is just not set up for individual out of state sale. To get a temp plate I needed a bill of sale, which of course I would not get until I'd seen the bike in OH. Then they advised me that the state of MA did not recognize NH temp plates, so I'd be illegal there anyway.

I ended up riding home (2 days) with illegally attached plates. I was prepared to plead stupidity - saying I thought I had 10 days to register or some such thing. The key is a genuinely suprised look on your face. I also figured a blue beemer was a blue beemer. Even if it's easy for the rest of us to distinguish an '87 K75 with an '03 K12GT I did the speed limit all the way home.

You know those temp permits you get when you buy a new bike? They aren't magic, you just go to the DMV and get one. Either in your state or his. IIRC, all you need is a bill of sale. It's more impressive they're typed up, neat an official looking, but they will accept a hand written one. They're like $10. In Utah, they actually have two kinds, 3 day and 30 day. (You may need the title to get a 30 temp, but you don't need nuttin' for a 3 day-er, at least in Utah).

Oh, just thought of something else. On the good advice of Laurel BMW, don't put them ON your bike. Too easy to fly off, or get stolen. I put mine in my tank bag map pocket when I did a fly-in/ride-out.

Texas 30-day temp tag is $25 and only requires make/model and a VIN. It's one thing they do smart down here. Want one? I can find out if I can get one for you. If your actual presence is not required at DMV, you can send me info & $25 and I can make it happen. Might also be available online but I haven't checked yet...

Hth

I would not recommend therefore I cannot condone the operation of motor vehicle without the proper licensing and registration, period.

That being said, here are your options: (Assuming the bike does not have current tags, in which case the title and sellers release ((Signature)) would let you operate the motorcycle for up to 30-days everywhere.)

Break the license plate assembly off the back of the bike and smash the tail-lamp housing. Plead ignorance if stopped and say you just bought this bike from Joe Blow and promptly wrecked it. The license plate flew off a cliff and fell into a river, a fast moving river and mention that it was fast moving, deep river, a very fast moving and very deep river, I think they have only one of those in North Carolina so you should know the name of this fast moving, deep river that has motorcycle only trail next to it.

OK, maybe he doesnÔÇÖt buy this explanation, offer him/her a Franklin Note and suggest he spend the money to repair his prescription because he is obviously canÔÇÖt see why he/she pulled you over in the first place.

OK, OK, I donÔÇÖt know why Kentucky would not have a 3-day ÔÇ£InspectionÔÇØ certificate that allows you to operate a motor vehicle or trailer on public roads for the purpose of obtaining, inspection, registration, or emission testing. These usually cost about $10.00 and virtually nothing is required but money (e.g., no VIN, Title, BoS, etc.). You can usually obtain one of these as many times as you want to spend $10.

Now, I donÔÇÖt know the legality of interstate transfer, so ask you local DMV or Law Enforcement Division for State Highways.

If you are really sure you are going to buy this bike on this trip and ride it home, why not do all the paperwork this week and get a temporary tag, if you change your mind on final inspection, just give him (seller) the title back and say no thanks, then pay a small filing fee to cancel the new registration. You would probably only need a certified fax of the title signed by the seller, he can sign that on more than one occasion if needed.

Good luck and THE MAN really would rather see you ride the bike home naked with a BoS and signed Title than put another registered tag on it and get stopped for say failure to signal.

I did it my way

I was in exactly your position - twice. Bought bikes on eBay, made sure they were fully insured for liability, took the train/drove a rental close by, got picked up by the owners and after conducting the transaction, rode them home with plates from one of my other bikes.

I was fully aware that this might lead to awkward conversations with the local constabulary ("Well, yes, I know it says 1100s on the tailpiece, Officer, but it's really a R75/6!") but I made sure I rode in full compliance with the traffic code and made it home without incident. I am not recommending this to you - your mileage may vary - I'm just reporting.

temp tags

I write insurance and as you said, temp insurance is not an issue. Temp tags are also not an issue but all states are different. All states also have provisions for state to state transfers. A simple honest call to the place you get tags will get an accurate answer. (Some states DMV, some states county clerk.)

I would strongly discourage useing improper tags from another bike as any LEO will know you were obviously trying to "get around" doing the proper thing and will not likely cut you any slack for whatever they pulled you over for in the first place. If they are in a particularly bad mood you may be awarded 2 tickets instead of one.

Do not use plates from one bike on another.

In most jurisdictions, misuse of plates is sufficient grounds for seizure of the vehicle (or motorcycle) on the basis of intent to defraud the state of license fees. You will get a citation, have to pay registration fees for the jurisdiction (read state) where you are stopped/arrested, plus penalty fees for attempting to avoid paying the initially required fees, plus towing charges, plus impound fees for the length of storage.

Heed the advice offered by the more rational; talk to the DMV offices where you will pick up the bike and where to will be taking it to. They deal with these issues regularly and know the law. All states subscribe to a national registration compact and abide by each others laws when a vehicle is out of its native state.

It's all about risk management isn't it?

Eureka said:

Do not use plates from one bike on another.

In most jurisdictions, misuse of plates is sufficient grounds for seizure of the vehicle (or motorcycle) on the basis of intent to defraud the state of license fees. You will get a citation, have to pay registration fees for the jurisdiction (read state) where you are stopped/arrested, plus penalty fees for attempting to avoid paying the initially required fees, plus towing charges, plus impound fees for the length of storage.

Heed the advice offered by the more rational; talk to the DMV offices where you will pick up the bike and where to will be taking it to. They deal with these issues regularly and know the law. All states subscribe to a national registration compact and abide by each others laws when a vehicle is out of its native state.

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Not that I'm a proponent of being lawless, but the scenerio above seems severe . Having a fresh bill of sale, freshly transfered title and proper insurance hardly has the appearence of attempting to defraud the state of licensing fees.

Assuming many personal sales happen on the weekend. There are no state offices open to transact with. In my experience the State of NH offered me a temp plate to transport my bike with, however I needed the bill of sale for the bike I had not bought. Problem #1. Even if I had procurred such a temp plate, I was told that the State of MA would NOT recognize it! If a boarder state does not recognize it, who knew if OH, PA, NY etc would recognize it. So I asked specifically, what should I do to transport my bike through MA? "Drive carefully". No kidding, this was from the DMV! Well, I was planning to ride carefully anyway... The only legal way to get a bike home is to trailer it, and that wasn't going to happen.

The states are just not prepared to deal with interstate commerce between individuals. They are not up to internet speed yet.

I sent my K11LT buyer away with my GAIL plate still on it. Was that any more legal? Probably not. But let him explain to the NV cops who GAIL is.

I agree, seizure for registraton fees and penalties due, does sound sever, and in most cases seizure is up to the individual officer and the enforcement policies of his/her departement. But that said, you do need to be aware that the option is available to the officer.

This would be especially true if you bought the bike in state "A" but had to go through states "B" and "C" to reach your home state "D". Technically, states "B" and "C" are due fees if you are misusing a plate or the vehicle registraton isn't current in state "A".

You are correct in the lack of coordination between states and the difficulty of getting paperwork processed on a weekend. Some states issue plates to vehicles and some issue them to owners which also complicates matters. A privately owned vehicle (versus a commercial vehicle) currently registered in one state is generally considered registered in all states, it is the transfer of title from one owner to another that complicates things.

The suggestion to trailer is very good, if the vehicle isn't touching the pavement, it doesn't have to be registered.

SheRidesABeemer said:

I sent my K11LT buyer away with my GAIL plate still on it. Was that any more legal? Probably not. But let him explain to the NV cops who GAIL is.

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Actually yes, the vehicle is the registered piece of property not the owner, just like insurance. As I said before if the bike (this one in question) has current tags it is registered, (depending on the state, for 30, 60, or 90 days before you have to re-register the vehicle).

If you agreed to have this person return your 'Vanity Plates' than you could use them again on another bike, provided you submitted a change of vehicles form.

Russ

Sometimes folks make their lives unnecessarily difficult.

EVERY state has a grace period for incoming vehicles. It might be a week, ten days or two weeks. A signed title, preferably with a bill of sale constitutes proof of ownership. You can get insurance with only the VIN. With the title and proof of insurance and a valid driver's license (with a motorcycle endorsement) you can ride the bike home from and to anywhere in the USA. (It might be a good idea to arrive home within 15 days of the date of sale on the documentation.)

In Colorado, you can get a "drive out" (temporary) tag for $2 for up to... 60 days, IIRC. You have to give the court clerk a good reason to get it for more than thirty days.

If you get pulled over on your way home, simply produce the paperwork and explain the out of state purchase and your state's requirements to get a plate. You haven't violated any laws or rules. You're merely a "corner case" for the law man. If the cop really has no idea what to do, suggest he speak to his watch commander. After a slight delay, you'll be on your way.

>Not that I'm a proponent of being lawless, but the scenerio above seems severe . Having a fresh bill of sale, freshly transfered title and proper insurance hardly has the appearence of attempting to defraud the state of licensing fees.

Illegally putting the registration/plate of one vehicle on another trumps all the right paperwork in the world and consequences could range from a mild slap on the hands to everything Eureka suggested and more. Possibly the worst being a 5-24 hour tie up on the way home. If you got the wrong LEO and/or judge/justice of the peace, it could be every bit as serious as adding a couple of zeros to your income tax return check. It's a government document, AFAIK the government frowns on "creative" ways of using them.

dlearl476 said:

>Not that I'm a proponent of being lawless, but the scenerio above seems severe . Having a fresh bill of sale, freshly transfered title and proper insurance hardly has the appearence of attempting to defraud the state of licensing fees.

Illegally putting the registration/plate of one vehicle on another trumps all the right paperwork in the world and consequences could range from a mild slap on the hands to everything Eureka suggested and more. Possibly the worst being a 5-24 hour tie up on the way home. If you got the wrong LEO and/or judge/justice of the peace, it could be every bit as serious as adding a couple of zeros to your income tax return check. It's a government document, AFAIK the government frowns on "creative" ways of using them.

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As someone who continues to get warnings for flagrant infractions of the law, I just assume the best will happen to me. I think it's called playing the chick card.

Imo...

It would be far better to be legal with no tag, than illegal with the wrong tag.

Next, where I live people are just purely weird about "I got the best price" on vehicles, and shop all over the country. Plenty of locals will buy in Georgia (Atlanta) or in Mississippi (several places) and drive the vehicle home without a hassle.

FWIW, in Alabama the laws changed several years ago, and the tag now stays with the owner. IOW, if I sell a vehicle, I am to pull the tag and keep it, thereby forcing the new owner to get his own, instead of "hiding" behind my paid up tag until the renewal date.

The upside of that is that I can immediately (and legally) put it on my next vehicle and transfer it. I pay a nominal fee that gets me to the next renewal time, when I would have to buy a tag anyway.

The laws vary widely from state to state, so just check with your DMV office and find out what to do. My gut says you'll close the deal and ride home with no problem.

I would expect that getting caught doing it wrong would incure penalties toward the greater end of the spectrum, since most traffic enforcement is for revenue purposes.

Call your local version of the state highway patrol and ask. There's usually some nominal fee (probably less than $50) for temporary plates that'll keep you legal and worry free for a month or so. You're paying for a flight and a $15,000 bike so the fee is cheap.

BTW, fly and drive is how I bought my bike. I live in Dallas and I flew to San Antonio, bought the bike, and drove home. My "carry on luggage" was a white Shoei RF800 and a magnetic Marsee tank bag! Those inspectors were really curious about those heavy magnets on the tank bag. But I got through!

mistercindy said:

My "carry on luggage" was a white Shoei RF800 and a magnetic Marsee tank bag! Those inspectors were really curious about those heavy magnets on the tank bag. But I got through!

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It was probably because they were attracted to the mandatory metal plates after the TSA labotomy...I do love the airport experience....no really....hehehehe