2001 surger

nrpetersen said:

But why would you want to willy-nilly disable the closed loop operation? ...

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Because that is what BMW sold throughout the world when a catalytic converter wasn't required.

Happy Wanderer said:

There was nothing nilly or willy about it. It was quite deliberate.

Something is broke; the bike surges and does not run properly or I wouldn't be trying to fix it.

And by the way, when you disconnect the O2 sensor on an 1100RT it stops surging immediately. Sure it runs richer, but it also runs better! Why do you think that is? Because the way it processes and handles closed loop operation sucks.

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Inquiring minds want to know why BMW set up all the European R1100s to run richer than all the US bikes. Why? Why? Why? Am I the only one that's curious about this?

They could have had the CO pot set up to trim CO to 0.2% +-0.2% and that would have been the same lean, low hydrocarbon exhaust they set the US bikes to.

But BMW didn't do that, they specified a much richer 1.5% CO. Is it because the bikes ran worse with more fuel or is it because they ran (run) much, much better?

If you put a programmable (wideband) O2 sensor on your motorcycle it is easy to get the answer.

Happy Canada Day HW

Well Earle got his CO Pot in the mail and went out last night to hook it up and disconnect the 02 sensor so I can't wait to hear how things turn out.

I too have wondered if there could be differences in cam timing between models. I am pretty sure that is the case between a single spark 1150 and a dual spark model and it could also be different between an RS and an RT 1100 as well. My only experience with the 1100 is with my '94 RSL which was built in 06/93 which makes it one of the first for export. I think it was a special order machine as well.

Roger 04 RT said:

Inquiring minds want to know why BMW set up all the European R1100s to run richer than all the US bikes. Why? Why? Why? Am I the only one that's curious about this?

They could have had the CO pot set up to trim CO to 0.2% +-0.2% and that would have been the same lean, low hydrocarbon exhaust they set the US bikes to.

But BMW didn't do that, they specified a much richer 1.5% CO. Is it because the bikes ran worse with more fuel or is it because they ran (run) much, much better?

If you put a programmable (wideband) O2 sensor on your motorcycle it is easy to get the answer.

Happy Canada Day HW

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Thanks Roger. I'm in the throes of pneumonia up here and not up for a party but the fireworks should be good tomorrow night!

Regards to why they shipped the lean machines over here; I think it was to meet California emission standards, plain and simple. I could be totally wrong but I know in 95 and 96 all the bikes shipped to Canada were Euro standard and different than US models. I've worked on both. The bikes in Canada had no O2 sensor, no CCP and a CO pot was installed. In the USA there was no CO pot, there was a O2 sensor and there was a CCP.
So the setup and mapping was quite different and the US bikes most definitely ran much leaner! Now this is only for the RT as that is the one I am familiar with. I am not sure about the S and RS models.

Red100RT said:

Well Earle got his CO Pot in the mail and went out last night to hook it up and disconnect the 02 sensor so I can't wait to hear how things turn out.

I too have wondered if there could be differences in cam timing between models. I am pretty sure that is the case between a single spark 1150 and a dual spark model and it could also be different between an RS and an RT 1100 as well. My only experience with the 1100 is with my '94 RSL which was built in 06/93 which makes it one of the first for export. I think it was a special order machine as well.

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Still amazed you managed to tune your bike idle without a gas analyzer. The CO pot is really tricky to adjust. I took mine to a local shop and he was kind enough to let me shove the probe up my exhaust and set the pot to get around 1.5% CO coming out the back. Still pretty smelly back there at idle though even after adjusting it compared to with the catalytic installed.

Hello HR,
All I did was adjust the pot till the idle worsened and then backed off slowly until idle was smooth and further rotation produced no change. I took the bike to a BMW dealer that has a dyno and saw for myself that the A/F ratio was about 13.8:1 that and seat of the pants told me I had it right. This was on my '94 RSL, didn't bother with the '04 1150 as it runs super after fudging the AIT sensor, disconnecting O2 sensor, and changing CCP from pink to yellow (pin #30 to 87). No way to connect a CO Pot to a 2.4 Motronic. Oh, I get 46 mpg on the RSL with two up. The CO Pot acted much like a mixture adjust on a carb. Not sure CCP configurations for an 1150 produce similar results on an 1100. Not really sure results would be the same between my '94 1100RSL and a later model 1100RT. I think just removing the CCP is the way to go on the 1100 regardless of model or year. Think the 1150 must have a CCP not so with the 1100.

Like you Roger I have long wondered why BMW went the route they did before emission control regs required it in this country. Was it to get some owner beta testing accomplished or did the California CARB enter the picture? Don't have a clue. I just consider myself fortunate my machines run as they do.

Seems pretty clear to me. The Oilhead was designed to run very well with the European fueling (13.8:1) ... and it seems to.

The US, led by California, required three-way catalytic converters. These cats only function properly if the mixture is varied frequently from 14.4 to 15.1:1. When warm and cruising, the Motronic continually adjust the mixture up down up down, etc. This keeps the three-way cat charged with the Oxygen which it stores when the mixture is above 14.7 and uses when below that figure, in order to reduce emissions.

The Oilhead motors just don't seem to burn the leaner US mixture as well as the richer European one. So on an R1100RT, pulling the CCP (a GS should have pin 87a grounded) and adding a CO potentiometer puts the bike into its European design configuration.

updates.
Done.
Autolite spark plugs.
T.B. sync with twinmax.
Boosterplug.
valves adjusted.
Cleaned T.B.s
C.C.P. Gone
T.P.S. set at 380 v
New fuel pump and filter.
New interior vent lines.
O2 sensor .Unpluged
New exterior vent lines. And unpluged.
C.O. Pot installed. Thank's again Red
New battery.


To do list
Adjust C.O. pot
T.B. sync
zero/zero setting? maybe
New fuel injectors? maybe.
Trade it? Maybe

Sent you an e-mail just now. Don't give up yet! We have just begun the fight! Be out your way in a week on the 1150 and will bring injectors from the 1100 to try. I can do the zero-zero adjust and one thing that bothers me is that the booster plug didn't make a difference, it should have. Not saying it (booster plug) would have fixed the problem but it should have made a difference. Also, will bring inductive timing light as I want to see if the timing varies at idle. Just a way to gather more information.

Don't give up!

J

I'd think the injectors would be a must-have item for that bike.

This is a very discouraging story. Especially since I just picked up the 2000 1100 that I had the owner holding for me until I could get down to Austin to pick it. I test road it again pretty extensively and it had no problems ths I could tell. But all of this work that has to be some just to get the bike to run is disheartening. I bought the bike for my brother who is not mechanically inclined so with only 12000 miles on the bike I felt good that I was getting him a bike that would not require a lot of work. The bike is all stock and the first thing I will do is change all the fluids. Then see if I will tackle the valves. I am afraid to touch the TBs for fear of messing something up. It can not be this bad to own one of these 11 year old bikes can it?

moralem said:

This is a very discouraging story. Especially since I just picked up the 2000 1100 that I had the owner holding for me until I could get down to Austin to pick it. I test road it again pretty extensively and it had no problems ths I could tell. But all of this work that has to be some just to get the bike to run is disheartening. I bought the bike for my brother who is not mechanically inclined so with only 12000 miles on the bike I felt good that I was getting him a bike that would not require a lot of work. The bike is all stock and the first thing I will do is change all the fluids. Then see if I will tackle the valves. I am afraid to touch the TBs for fear of messing something up. It can not be this bad to own one of these 11 year old bikes can it?

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Look, if the bike you rode and bought has NO problems go ahead and change all the fluids (engine oil, tranny oil, final drive oil, brake fluid) but leave the valves, throttle bodies and anything else ALONE! Change the plugs maybe if you think they are done. But do not under any circumstances start messing with the valves and throttle bodies unless there is good reason to do so!

You don't read about the thousands of 1100 bikes out there that run just fine here! You mainly read about the ones that have problems and that is very few statistically speaking. The 1100 and 1150 series boxers are amoung the most reliable and successful bikes BMW ever made!

Good points all Happy Wanderer. When I was at the 2010 International Rally at Redmond, OR I saw many many oilheads with all kinds of miles on their clocks that ran very well indeed. Sometimes when you get a problem vehicle be it an oilhead or any other modern ECU controlled complex machine it can just be a mind numbing experience trying to get the beast to run as it should. Lean burn problems effect not just BMW's. Oh, I would much rather deal with a simple throttle body than a pre-oilhead airhead with Bing carbs any day. The airheads are wonderful machines but look out for the Bings, diode boards, valve recession, steering head bearing load adjust, and on and on. Modern vehicle electronic systems are probably the most reliable parts on vehicles of any kind.

Oh, 2013 international rally at Salem, OR should be great!

Afternoon Roger,
I kind of don't think fuel pressure is the problem especially since Earle has installed a new fuel pump and filter. I have never heard of a pressure regulator problem in all my reading about these bikes. Bet D.R. could comment to that. Would be easy to measure the pressure as all one needs do is Tee into the pressure side fuel line and connect a suitable meter. Looked it up in my factory manual and pressure should be 3 bars which I think equates to 43.5 psi. Meters are available for around $35 give or take on Amazon. The pressure regulator looks to be pretty much fail safe, however. Also, I will be very surprised if new injectors solve the problem but we shall see.

When I bought my used 2000 rt-p, it ran really well. I think it will be fine. My problem is with a lot of the rubber. The tires, valve stems, fuel lines, brake lines are all shot. It's dealing with the deferred maintenance that is killing me right now.

Bmandiego said:

When I bought my used 2000 rt-p, it ran really well. I think it will be fine. My problem is with a lot of the rubber. The tires, valve stems, fuel lines, brake lines are all shot. It's dealing with the deferred maintenance that is killing me right now.

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Be happy. That stuff is all mostly external and easy to fix up. Take your time and enjoy. New brake lines from Spiegler are about $200 and you won't believe the difference they make. Brakes are easy to work on with these bikes.

Tires go anyway. SW Moto in Arizona will ship you a new set at a great price. Nothin like a new pair of slippers...

Don't wait or mess around with hard valve stems. I had the brass valve come out of the rubber on me one day in California and that was scary. Never had the air leave a tire so fast before! You don't even have to pull a tire off to change them. Just pop the bead to get in there, cut the old ones out and pull a new one through. Soap and water. Easy peasy.

Lots of threads here and on ADVrider with photos on fuel line, filter and pump fixes. Easy once you've done it one time.