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ATGATT as fashion statement?
- Thread starter redsky49
- Start date
Interesting discussion!
I believe ALL riders base their choice of riding gear on four considerations: 1. SAFETY - or what will happen to my body if I go down. 2. COMFORT - which in the rain, cold, or heat could also be a safety matter. 3.STYLE - or what will my riding friends think of me. 4. COST. I think everyone takes these factors into consideration, but different groups and individuals prioritize them differently.
As the OP by redsky49 noted, MOST people who ride a particular type or brand of bike tend to dress similarly. (Have you EVER seen anyone who wasn't riding a Harley wearing a beanie helmet?)
Here's my take: If you don't wear, as a minimum: 1. A modular or full face helmet, 2. A jacket with with some padding in the elbows, shoulders and back, 3. Decent leather gloves, 4. Over pants with some padding in the hips and knees, and 5. Boots, YOU HAVE DECIDED YOU WILL NOT GO DOWN ON THAT RIDE. And you probably won't. But if you do... Frankly, I find my full face helmet, mesh jacket with pads, gloves, padded leather pants, and riding boots as comfortable as all the less-protective alternatives in this 95+ heat. Sure, it takes me a few minutes to don this garb. If I don't want to take the time for a short trip, I take the car and turn on the air-conditioner.
You can get good protection for all conditions for well under $1000. When I took up motorcycling about a decade ago I bought $1000 bikes, a $150 full face helmet, and a $50 leather jacket from a thrift store. When I found a dirty but otherwise excellent leather riding suit for $450, I bought it, because I knew I was hooked. The pants still go on every ride. The leather jacket goes on every cooler weather ride - if my gut allows.
If I haven't made this crystal clear, I believe safety and comfort should be the first considerations and you don't have to go down to a soaked T-shirt to get the comfort you need to keep your brain working. (Though a soaked cut-off sweatshirt under a mesh jacket works great!)
I know that abolutely nobody reading this post rides with a "beanie" helmet, but some of you do use "half-face" helmets. Check out the photos on the internet of others who have destroyed the face shield and chin piece of their full face helmets - and emerged with both face and brain intact. Could that be you?
By the way, I am against helmet laws and seatbelt laws, though I always use both. Let the stupid remove themselves from the gene pool. They are only endangering themselves.
I believe ALL riders base their choice of riding gear on four considerations: 1. SAFETY - or what will happen to my body if I go down. 2. COMFORT - which in the rain, cold, or heat could also be a safety matter. 3.STYLE - or what will my riding friends think of me. 4. COST. I think everyone takes these factors into consideration, but different groups and individuals prioritize them differently.
As the OP by redsky49 noted, MOST people who ride a particular type or brand of bike tend to dress similarly. (Have you EVER seen anyone who wasn't riding a Harley wearing a beanie helmet?)
Here's my take: If you don't wear, as a minimum: 1. A modular or full face helmet, 2. A jacket with with some padding in the elbows, shoulders and back, 3. Decent leather gloves, 4. Over pants with some padding in the hips and knees, and 5. Boots, YOU HAVE DECIDED YOU WILL NOT GO DOWN ON THAT RIDE. And you probably won't. But if you do... Frankly, I find my full face helmet, mesh jacket with pads, gloves, padded leather pants, and riding boots as comfortable as all the less-protective alternatives in this 95+ heat. Sure, it takes me a few minutes to don this garb. If I don't want to take the time for a short trip, I take the car and turn on the air-conditioner.
You can get good protection for all conditions for well under $1000. When I took up motorcycling about a decade ago I bought $1000 bikes, a $150 full face helmet, and a $50 leather jacket from a thrift store. When I found a dirty but otherwise excellent leather riding suit for $450, I bought it, because I knew I was hooked. The pants still go on every ride. The leather jacket goes on every cooler weather ride - if my gut allows.
If I haven't made this crystal clear, I believe safety and comfort should be the first considerations and you don't have to go down to a soaked T-shirt to get the comfort you need to keep your brain working. (Though a soaked cut-off sweatshirt under a mesh jacket works great!)
I know that abolutely nobody reading this post rides with a "beanie" helmet, but some of you do use "half-face" helmets. Check out the photos on the internet of others who have destroyed the face shield and chin piece of their full face helmets - and emerged with both face and brain intact. Could that be you?
By the way, I am against helmet laws and seatbelt laws, though I always use both. Let the stupid remove themselves from the gene pool. They are only endangering themselves.
S
shire2000
Guest
knary
I did not state that if anyone chooses different then me is a fool or brainwashed.
If you read the whole thread you will realize that my statement is towards those that have stated in the past that BMW makes the best of everything. When in reality, they do not make a while lot of the stuff that is sold with the BMW logo on it. And, just because something is super expensive does not make it the best there is.
You really did miss the point of the whole thread.
Please disregard all of my posts on this, it is obvious that I cannot express myself in a manner that others can understand.
I did not state that if anyone chooses different then me is a fool or brainwashed.
If you read the whole thread you will realize that my statement is towards those that have stated in the past that BMW makes the best of everything. When in reality, they do not make a while lot of the stuff that is sold with the BMW logo on it. And, just because something is super expensive does not make it the best there is.
You really did miss the point of the whole thread.
Please disregard all of my posts on this, it is obvious that I cannot express myself in a manner that others can understand.
G
ghostrider1964
Guest
I am a believer in ATGATT! As a racer I pushed limits, that meant a number of face plants, oddly my fastest crash I walked away from unscathed except for grass stains on my leathers. My slowest crash netted me an ambulance ride and a week in the hospital with some new titanium internals
As a volunteer in the local volunteer fire department, I have had the unfortunate luck of working a number of motorcycle wrecks. The latest was a sportbike rider in full ATGATT. He collided with a cattle trailer with enough speed to knock the trailer off the road and turn the truck sideways. Needless to say he was most likely killed instantly. NO ATGATT could have saved him from this fate. The accident happened as the truck turned onto the main highway from a blind intersection that was obscured by a hill. This is straight road and notorious with the sport bikes topping out their bikes through there, estimated speed was greater than 120mph of the R1. This goes back to judgement, If I cannot see over a hill on a public roadway I will not be running full out! I had my years of sport bikes and used to run my GSXR on that very road at 170mph+...Guess I never out ran my guardian angel
As a volunteer in the local volunteer fire department, I have had the unfortunate luck of working a number of motorcycle wrecks. The latest was a sportbike rider in full ATGATT. He collided with a cattle trailer with enough speed to knock the trailer off the road and turn the truck sideways. Needless to say he was most likely killed instantly. NO ATGATT could have saved him from this fate. The accident happened as the truck turned onto the main highway from a blind intersection that was obscured by a hill. This is straight road and notorious with the sport bikes topping out their bikes through there, estimated speed was greater than 120mph of the R1. This goes back to judgement, If I cannot see over a hill on a public roadway I will not be running full out! I had my years of sport bikes and used to run my GSXR on that very road at 170mph+...Guess I never out ran my guardian angel
redsky49
New member
An interesting spectrum of responses, though not much different than I anticipated. It seems that everyone is convinced of their current position, regardless of what that position may be.
As also a participant on the Aprilia forum, I found the following picture from a fellow Ape owner very informative. This rider had a rather gentle low side drop at something less than 40 mph and this is what became of his Kevlar Motoport garments. Bear in mind that this fabric is likely many times more abrasion resistant than virtually any other textile garment. Photo courtesy of wavz.
Is this an argument for leather? BTW, wavz emerged pretty unscathed from his mishap. His riding gear fared far worse.
As also a participant on the Aprilia forum, I found the following picture from a fellow Ape owner very informative. This rider had a rather gentle low side drop at something less than 40 mph and this is what became of his Kevlar Motoport garments. Bear in mind that this fabric is likely many times more abrasion resistant than virtually any other textile garment. Photo courtesy of wavz.
Is this an argument for leather? BTW, wavz emerged pretty unscathed from his mishap. His riding gear fared far worse.
Attachments
testinglogin
Hogaan!
Just think how bad his arm would have looked if he hadn't had the jacket on. Gear is supposed to be sacrificial. I'm not worried about the ability of my gear to protect me - I've seen photos of crashed Olympia AST jackets and sure they had damage, but the rider didn't, or excessively lessened.
If I fall and my jacket shows that wear but my body doesn't, I'll be more than happy to run out and buy another jacket. Saving myself that type of damage is worth more money to me than even the most expensive gear costs.
redsky49
New member
To be clear, I am not espousing any particular position. Rather I am asking what I think are reasonable questions, which all responsible riders must (or at least should) consider. My hope is that a spirited discussion may cause us all to re-examine our choices and, hopefully, make the most informed decisions possible in the future.
For anyone interested in seeing the additional pics of battle tested Kevlar, here is the linky:
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185053
MY personal view is that safety is 90% mental, 10% equipment and 10% luck (or something like that).
Stay safe.
For anyone interested in seeing the additional pics of battle tested Kevlar, here is the linky:
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185053
MY personal view is that safety is 90% mental, 10% equipment and 10% luck (or something like that).
Stay safe.
5
535IS
Guest
In fact, the last couple I saw riding a BMW two-up wore them. It was a 1962 R60/2 and they outran me at 140km/h on the way out of town. Just goes to show you how well stereotypes work ...
Yes, it could. I've seen those pictures. Of course, you've seen pictures of ATTGATT riders killed because they were on a totally exposed motor vehicle. Do you plan to quit riding because of that, or do you choose to be a hypocrite? I rode for years with a 3/4 helmet because that's what I liked on my cruiser. The only reason I've changed is that they are not comfortable in the RS's slipstream.
I'm guessing you won't drive a car without airbags, either. That's what I call "Planning to crash" ... but that's your choice.
knary
looking for a coal mine
knary
I did not state that if anyone chooses different then me is a fool or brainwashed.
If you read the whole thread you will realize that my statement is towards those that have stated in the past that BMW makes the best of everything. When in reality, they do not make a while lot of the stuff that is sold with the BMW logo on it. And, just because something is super expensive does not make it the best there is.
You really did miss the point of the whole thread.
Please disregard all of my posts on this, it is obvious that I cannot express myself in a manner that others can understand.
I understood the point of the thread and you've expressed yourself quite clearly.
Once you become a member of the asphalt surfing club most no longer care what others think about the gear you wear. The only look I do not like is the "new gear look"
So you wear what you want and I will wear want I want and we can both be happy.
Wish I'd read that before I washed the crap out of my Teknic Supervent. A little Oxy Clean, cold water, and Brush work, and it looks like new gear.
john1691
New member
Oxyclean, that's what I needed. My Supervent (in bright yellow and white) cleaned up ok, but the white still has some discoloration due to bug goo, I'll add the Oxy next cleaning to be sure it looks brand new again! I love the look of new gear, helps me look like a Poser as I blow past some "Biker" in crusty leathers.......
Just playin' with ya, I do wash my stuff eventually, but I hardly ever blow past anyone, (accept my friends) as I try to respect their ride. I also don't really care what others are riding or wearing, as we are all individuals who happen to ride. I wear ATTGAT because I have slid down a road on my side and now as a 40 something year old rider, I know it will take longer to heal next time I do it. I may crash, I may not ever again, but I take a medium amount of caution by wearing the gear. I won't give up riding, I'd love a classic car with no air bags, and I've even skydived. Life is risk, might as well embrace it!
Just playin' with ya, I do wash my stuff eventually, but I hardly ever blow past anyone, (accept my friends) as I try to respect their ride. I also don't really care what others are riding or wearing, as we are all individuals who happen to ride. I wear ATTGAT because I have slid down a road on my side and now as a 40 something year old rider, I know it will take longer to heal next time I do it. I may crash, I may not ever again, but I take a medium amount of caution by wearing the gear. I won't give up riding, I'd love a classic car with no air bags, and I've even skydived. Life is risk, might as well embrace it!
Muriel
BMW MOV
And besides, isn't it in "the manual" that the EMTs have to cut off the gear following a crash?
I'm very happy with my 2-piece Roadcrafter - easy on, easy off, no rain gear needed, during two minor oopsies, no real damage to my previous Darien jacket and none to the pants. A chill-out vest helps keep me cool in the summer. Yes, I try to avoid the mid to high 90's and above. I always wear my gear. I don't like pain.
Muriel
W
wandering
Guest
Atgatt
...because you never know.
http://killboy.blogspot.com/
(BMW crash photo sequence at Killboy's weekly update)
Glad everyone is okay
...because you never know.
http://killboy.blogspot.com/
(BMW crash photo sequence at Killboy's weekly update)
Glad everyone is okay
OfficerImpersonator
Seattle-area Rounder
Here's my anecdotal story:
My next-door-neighbor is the Sargent commanding the county sheriff's motorcycle detachment. He's recognized around the area as one of the best motor officer teachers, and often conducts "track days" at the local racetrack for motor officers.
When I got my Aerostich Roadcrafter suit, he pulled out his police-issued Aerostitch two-piece Roadcrafter suit and told me I'd made a wise investment.
A few years back, he was conducting a training session at the Seattle International Raceway (now called "Pacific Raceways"). He and several motor officers from a neighboring county were doing high speed work on the track. One of the officers went off the side of the road at high speed on his RT-P. The front tire dug into the wet spongy ground and launched the rider over the handlebars. The bike immediately ejected the rider and did seven or eight somersaults down the track, occasionally impacting the rider as they skipped down the road. Rider was unconscious when help arrived. Helicopter arrived to take officer to the trauma center. My neighbor rode along with to the ER. As the ER docs were cutting off the 'Stich and assessing the officer's injuries, the lead doc remarked that without the 'Stich, he likely would have had his arms and legs separated from his body. In other words, the Aerostich suit kept his body intact during the accident. Sure, he had broken arms and legs - but at least he still had arms and legs.
Maybe other gear would have produced the same results. I don't know. What I do know is that I respect the hell out of my Roadcrafter, and expect it to help protect me when I eventually go down at speed.
When people see me walking around in my 'Stich, they always want to ask questions. Chief among them are "is that suit expensive?". My stock response is that my suit is cheaper than skin.
My next-door-neighbor is the Sargent commanding the county sheriff's motorcycle detachment. He's recognized around the area as one of the best motor officer teachers, and often conducts "track days" at the local racetrack for motor officers.
When I got my Aerostich Roadcrafter suit, he pulled out his police-issued Aerostitch two-piece Roadcrafter suit and told me I'd made a wise investment.
A few years back, he was conducting a training session at the Seattle International Raceway (now called "Pacific Raceways"). He and several motor officers from a neighboring county were doing high speed work on the track. One of the officers went off the side of the road at high speed on his RT-P. The front tire dug into the wet spongy ground and launched the rider over the handlebars. The bike immediately ejected the rider and did seven or eight somersaults down the track, occasionally impacting the rider as they skipped down the road. Rider was unconscious when help arrived. Helicopter arrived to take officer to the trauma center. My neighbor rode along with to the ER. As the ER docs were cutting off the 'Stich and assessing the officer's injuries, the lead doc remarked that without the 'Stich, he likely would have had his arms and legs separated from his body. In other words, the Aerostich suit kept his body intact during the accident. Sure, he had broken arms and legs - but at least he still had arms and legs.
Maybe other gear would have produced the same results. I don't know. What I do know is that I respect the hell out of my Roadcrafter, and expect it to help protect me when I eventually go down at speed.
When people see me walking around in my 'Stich, they always want to ask questions. Chief among them are "is that suit expensive?". My stock response is that my suit is cheaper than skin.
S
shire2000
Guest
OfficerImpersonator,
Your story reminds me very much of a motorcycle course I took at Seattle International Raceways (SIR) back around 1972. Same sort of thing. The person giving the training was a local (I think Seattle) police officer with many years of experience. He recommended full leathers back then. Pulled his on and showed us why, giving first hand explanations about every scrape and scuff mark on them. There were more than a few. After the training sessions (3 days) he then showed us that our little Japanese crotch rockets of the day really could not out run his big HD police bike. Boy was he not only fast, but he knew how to use all that extra power and weight to his advantage.
Even though the fabrics have changed, it is great to hear that the message is still being given out at those sessions.
Your story reminds me very much of a motorcycle course I took at Seattle International Raceways (SIR) back around 1972. Same sort of thing. The person giving the training was a local (I think Seattle) police officer with many years of experience. He recommended full leathers back then. Pulled his on and showed us why, giving first hand explanations about every scrape and scuff mark on them. There were more than a few. After the training sessions (3 days) he then showed us that our little Japanese crotch rockets of the day really could not out run his big HD police bike. Boy was he not only fast, but he knew how to use all that extra power and weight to his advantage.
Even though the fabrics have changed, it is great to hear that the message is still being given out at those sessions.
R
RSPENNACHIO
Guest
You may not be brainwashed but you are spliting hairs.
Its funny when the term "spirited" is used. That term is sort of code for a flame (only a small one though)
.
S
shire2000
Guest
rspennachio,
I do not understand your comment. I know not of this hair you say I am splitting.
The quote you refer to is pointing to those that absolutely must have all the latest from BMW as they feel that paying 2-3 times the price and having the BMW logo on it makes it higher quality.
I do not understand your comment. I know not of this hair you say I am splitting.
The quote you refer to is pointing to those that absolutely must have all the latest from BMW as they feel that paying 2-3 times the price and having the BMW logo on it makes it higher quality.
C
criminaldesign
Guest
I alway wear a helmet regardless of laws. The only time I pull out the leather bibs is during road trips or it's cold. I have a jacket with me a majority of the time, but I have no problem shedding it if it gets too warm. To all their own.
statdawg
High & Dry
Does it really matter ? What about blunt trauma ?
In the summer I wear jeans, boots that save my ankles, gloves, a ballistic jacket and helmet for local trips, because I am lazy, and I believe road rash can be scrapped off the legs as long as the arms and fingers work to do so. I have experience believe me. I will put the other gear on if I am traveling in the woods, on a fire trail, or take an extended ride in traffic.
I know ought to wear a neck brace, chest protector, and a back brace but if I am that paranoid I will stay the hell home. Shouldn't you be comfortable when you are riding ?
When you are out and about wearing the BMW emperors clothes remember it takes just a small impact to dissect your aorta regardless what its wrapped in.
In the summer I wear jeans, boots that save my ankles, gloves, a ballistic jacket and helmet for local trips, because I am lazy, and I believe road rash can be scrapped off the legs as long as the arms and fingers work to do so. I have experience believe me. I will put the other gear on if I am traveling in the woods, on a fire trail, or take an extended ride in traffic.
I know ought to wear a neck brace, chest protector, and a back brace but if I am that paranoid I will stay the hell home. Shouldn't you be comfortable when you are riding ?
When you are out and about wearing the BMW emperors clothes remember it takes just a small impact to dissect your aorta regardless what its wrapped in.
