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New ATGATT article. Neck Braces

Re air vests: I wear a Hit-Air vest because I prefer an air vest that does not impede air flow like the solid back side of the Helite does. I tested my first Hit-Air vest when my front tire slid out at over 100 mph on my S1000RR during a track session on the NCBike (aka NCCCAR) track. I was wearing Aerostich's Transit Leathers and my Hit Air Vest. I was riding again six weeks later; they made me wait that long because of a hairline crack in my radius bone near my wrist.

Re neck brace: When I re-entered adventure/dual sport riding after a 35 year hiatus of on-road-only riding, I bought over $11,000 worth of gear trying to figure out what would work for me and what would not. My street gear was far too cumbersome for the athletic nature of adventure/dual sport riding and I found my air vest to be impractical because off-road spills happen at speeds the vest isn't needed and rearming costs $30 a pop and takes time. I ended up keeping mostly Mosko Moto gear and Leatt Armor that was recommended by Mosko Moto. In the process, I tried Leatt's carbon neck brace and just couldn't convince myself I would actually wear it. It was, and remains, a risk management/acceptance decision. Since then, I've ridden 24,686 miles of adventure/dual sport riding and not felt the need for it. Part of that is that I don't ride fast off-road; I mostly plod along if there's anything technical about what I'm riding on.

P.S. The 24,686 miles on my 2022 G310GS included...
In 2022, I rode 11,553 miles. this included the Smoky Mountain 500 in NC, TN, & GA; a curvy road run with some off-road from Hendersonville, NC, to Springfield, MO, for the BMW MOA National Rally; a mixed on/off-road run from there to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia via the Northeast Backcountry Discovery Route (BDR).
In 2023, I rode 13,133 miles. This included the Death Valley Noobs Rally in California; the April Fools Adventure Rally in Ohio; an east coast run that included the Mid-Atlantic BDR, the Pennsylvania BDR-X, the Trans America Trail (TAT) Atlantic Spur from the Appalachian Mountains to Cape Hatteras, NC, and the 2023 BMW MOA National Rally in Richmond, VA (where I did a seminar on my 310 mods); a mostly off-road TAT run from Hot Springs, NC, to Port Orford, OR, a mostly off-road run on the TAT Minnesota Spur and the Black Hills BDR-X, and a curvy road run from Wisconsin back to Hendersonville, NC.
This year I'll be doing as many BDR's as I can going to and from the BMW National in Oregon.

This pic is me having just finished the TAT run from Hot Springs, NC, to Port Orford, OR.

Port Orford Beach.jpg
 
There are new offroad air vests out there that have had extensive testing in the Dakar and other events. If you're going to be doing any kind of serious offroad riding it makes more sense to go that way. The street air vests sometimes activate just from the riding.

I go the same route as about with separate armour when I'm getting into more serious stuff. I have contemplated getting knee braces vs just impact guards but haven't sent the $$ to go that route.
 
Yes, I'm aware of off-road versions. For Dakar and similar racing, I'd wear one; that's the type of riding that those vests' algorithms are actually trained for and tested against. Same with MotoGP air vests. Untethered on-road and off-road air vests are still experimental; they want to gather data we generate while we pay to wear them and have accidents, i.e., they want to learn from our accidents. That's like making patients pay to participate in clinical trails.

On road, I don't ride without my tethered Hit-Air. When fully independent crash testing demonstrates that untethered vests are suitable and effective; i.e., suitable for street riding and effective for street accidents, I'll consider them as long as they are also affordable.

Off-road, because low-speed dirt naps are a normal part of off-road riding, I'm having a real hard time thinking air vests will ever be suitable and effective for non-racing off-road applications, i.e., normal adventure and dual sport riding. Especially given that reloading an untethered vest costs $130 a pop and/or has to be sent back to a specially trained/equipped dealer and/or factory for reloading.
 
Don't get wrong. I'm a believer. I've been wearing a tethered vest on-road 24/7/365 for six years now. I've survived a 100+ mph track session crash in part thanks to a tethered air vest.

I've been carefully monitoring progress on untethered offerings and off-road offerings. I think untethered on-road offerings are very close to being suitable, effective, and affordable for the general public.

However, I don't think off-road offerings are close to being suitable, effective, and affordable for the general public yet; for off-road racing, definitely; for off-road adventure and dual sport riding, not yet. In my mind, to be suitable off-road, I have to be able to set it so it doesn't go off at speeds below a value I select and I have to be able to reset it in less than 20 minutes at a cost not to exceed $30.

I continue to have high hopes.

P.S. Why I believe: Below are the remains of my S1000RR after my 100+ mph track session crash. In contrast to my poor RR, thanks in part to my tethered air vest, I was walking around with just a sling and a wrist brace. The most interesting aspect of my crash was seeing the excited ER team members get sent away after the ER doc figured out that my gear left them with almost nothing to do except for precautionary x-rays and MRI.

Screenshot_20240207-134300.png
 
Alpinestarts TechAir5 here. I'm a believer in them after a buddy got pretty messed up sliding under a guard rail and was injured.

A few years later, he hit a deer and his Helite Turtle prevented injuries and he kinda bounced down the road a little. He felt well enough to go give the dead deer a pretty good kick after he got up.
 
Alpinestarts has their new Tech 7 vest coming out but from the little I've see it is aimed at the racer crowd.
 
Air Vest or Neck Brace?

We (me as well) have morphed this from a discussion on neck braces to a discussion of air vests. Bringing the discussion back to neck braces for a moment. I have always liked how Hit-Air's Vest fully immobilizes the rider's neck and head during activation. Helite's Air Vest largely does the same, but seems to stop short of what the Hit-Air Vest is doing (but this could be because of neck length and/or helmet shell size). See first and second videos below; in particular, watch how much each rider can move his helmet after activation. In contrast, neck braces are designed to not impede head movement while simultaneously preventing hyper-extension of the neck. This means neck braces are not as protective as air vests, period.

Another neck brace limitation is rider interference: Under some conditions, especially transitions from flats to steep uphill ascents and steep downhill descents, a neck brace can limit how far the rider can see. I tried wearing a Leatt 6.5 Carbon Neck Brace around my house for a while, but I decided I was unlikely to actually wear it and returned it. I know from this that you can and must adjust the fit of a neck brace. I would think that such adjustments can minimize neck brace interference, but if someone like the riders on Cross Training Enduro couldn't make it work, I doubt I can. See third video below.

Is it time for me to Upgrade?

Whenever I get in discussions like this, I use it as an opportunity to update myself on what's available and decide if it's time to upgrade from my on-road tethered Hit-Air Vest to something else and/or start using an off-road air vest. For on-road, I remain happy with my tethered Hit-Air, mostly because I want maximum air flow and everyone else seems to favor air vests that have impermeable turtle shell backs and/or vests that are impermeable front and back. I cannot imagine wearing anything that cuts off that much air flow. For off-road, only Alpinestars TechAir Offroad seems close to being ready for non-racing use, but it's impermeable front and back and it's still not available for non-racing (I checked Alpinestars website). See the review and video by Girl on a Bike below. When Alpinestars TechAir Offroad becomes available, I'll buy one to test the airflow question, but I'll return it in a heartbeat if there isn't enough airflow for me to wear it during hot, slow, athletically challenging, technical riding. The risks from overheating would be too great.

Hit-Air Vest:

Helite Air Vest:

The problem with wearing a neck brace (Cross Training Enduro)

The Girl On A Bike (Alpinestars TechAir offroad)(90 Euro per two cartridges)
Banner: "Alpinestarts suggest early 2024 the tech air off road will be release for the wider market"
 
You can totally see how the vests put air around the helmet to mimic the same protection as a neck brace.
 
Sorry, but you're postulating that a neck brace's prevention of hyper-extension and an air bag's cervical immobilization are the same; they're not. An air bag's cervical immobilization is much more protective.

If they were equally protective, Dakar would allow riders to wear either an air vest or a neck brace. They don't, they require an air vest, period. Girl on a Bike alluded to this in her video, but here's the authoritative language from the FIM Rally Raid Technical Rules downloaded from the Dakar regulations web site:

"65.01.1 Airbags
It is compulsory that riders wear an airbag eligible for competition. By eligible for
competition it is to be understood: an airbag system (complete vest or gilet) inside
which the chest and back protector are included.
...(lots of specs omitted here)...
The neck-brace is not compatible with the airbag and therefore is prohibited."

Source:
competitors.dakar.com

Regulations

Official website of the Dakar Rally competitors
competitors.dakar.com competitors.dakar.com
 
I did say mimic, as in it prevents the head from travelling as far to damage the neck. I don't deny the vest is probably better but it also includes more protection than just the neck. For Rally Raid I'm pretty sure it's gone to vests to provide the overall higher level of protection and not just the neck. But one always has to remember it won't protect you from everything. Just ask Pablo Gonclaves, he was killed in the Dakar a couple of years ago and we miss him. Another rider died this year a number of days after his crash but that one was largely as a result of a massive head injury.
 
That's pretty sick, telling me to ask Paulo Gonçalves; should I use a Ouija Board or do have some other means in mind?

Never mind; I have now unfollowed this thread. Other than this last, nice discussion everyone.
 
So sorry, that was poor. I have edited that comment. I've been following the Dakar for many years and the Gonk was one of my heroes. My avatar on ADV has been a photo of him since his passing. I meant him no offence and I did not mean to offend.
 
I read the article and then the frightening reports in this thread. I guess the folks that have NOT written are the poor souls who did not fare even that well. Regarding use of the Helite vests for head and neck support, does anyone know if the Helite jacket puffs up behind the neck? Could these even possibly provide close to the safety margin a neck brace would?
 
slash5er said:
I read the article and then the frightening reports in this thread. I guess the folks that have NOT written are the poor souls who did not fare even that well. Regarding use of the Helite vests for head and neck support, does anyone know if the Helite jacket puffs up behind the neck? Could these even possibly provide close to the safety margin a neck brace would?
Click to expand...
Yes, they puff up at the neck to prevent over articulation and injury.
 
Look at the videos and you can see how the vest totally supports the neck. Definitely a better level of safety and doesn't require a special jacket to go over it, unlike a neck brace.

You can see here how the jacket had a zip off collar to ccomodate the neck brace. Leaves you wide open for the wind to go down your neck! Other people put their braces over their jackets but rally hard to get a good fit.
P8140217-XL.jpg
 
Remember, a neck brace let's you move your head until your helmet hits the brace. In contrast, the air vest's neck collar inflates to the point where it pretty much holds you helmet/head/neck. So, I would say yes, these air vest do provide close to, if not more safety than, the safety margin a neck brace would. The pics below show this quite clearly, at least to me.
1000003460.png
1000003462.png
1000003461.png
 
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