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Yet Another Final Drive Failure
- Thread starter grw
- Start date
Easy To Do Yourself...
Changing lube in FD and lubing splines [overlook by many..] is very simple to do...about 30 mins for me..most of that is slowly getting the FD refilled [220ml]..on my '07 you refill through the sensor hole and the process is very slow....
Changing lube in FD and lubing splines [overlook by many..] is very simple to do...about 30 mins for me..most of that is slowly getting the FD refilled [220ml]..on my '07 you refill through the sensor hole and the process is very slow....
AZ-J
Riding where it's hot!
This includes 2007 and 2008 bikes, as well.
AZ-J
Riding where it's hot!
Paul, in post 1 here, it says "I dropped the bike off in late July and I'm still waiting to get it back." as of October. In AZ, the lemon law triggers at 30 days, and is automatic on day 31, besides 4 x repair of a driveability issue. I went through this with BMWNA with my F800S in October 2008.
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
It does seem that the FD issue has cooled off a bit; maybe due to the time of year. Although I live in a place where the density of hexhead bikes is very low, we do get scads of folks through here on them in the summer. These are bikes that are operating towards the extreme end of the scale in that they tend to be heavily loaded and running towards the end of a service cycle when they get here. I think the local dealer said he had one FD failure to work on last summer.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
I think lubing the rear splines is most important at least once early on. I have seen a few pretty dry splines.
pglaves
#13338
Which is what I've recommended from day one. Be sure to use the proper 75w90 synthetic lube.
pglaves
#13338
If Arizona law actually says that a single instance of a failure that takes BMW / the shop 31 days to fix is a "lemon" then there are lots of shops that need to speed up their repair processes substantially. Which would be a good thing.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
I guess their thinking is (as if anyone could know what their thinking is) was that the final drive is sealed from breathing air or water as opposed to earlier models. Once the drive is flushed (which was supposed to happen in manufacture before 2007), then the oil should last forever...heh.
Lube And Splines
Agreed on dry splines...mine were dry at 600 miles...I also lube mine do to water getting into boots..I use Honda Moly 60 on splines..
Not starting a "lube war" [there are tons of threads on this] but I use Red Line Heavy ShockProof in my FD..
Also just the FD lube does not seem to be THE cause or even a contributing cause of the FD failures...again lots of posts on this but nothing from BMW..
What is the source of information stating that BMW now recommends FDs lube changes in pre-'09s every 12,000 miles? As simple as it is to change, mine is on a 10,000 change, over kill but also lets me inspect the lube for digested gears/races/bearings... Thanks...
Agreed on dry splines...mine were dry at 600 miles...I also lube mine do to water getting into boots..I use Honda Moly 60 on splines..
Not starting a "lube war" [there are tons of threads on this] but I use Red Line Heavy ShockProof in my FD..
Also just the FD lube does not seem to be THE cause or even a contributing cause of the FD failures...again lots of posts on this but nothing from BMW..
What is the source of information stating that BMW now recommends FDs lube changes in pre-'09s every 12,000 miles? As simple as it is to change, mine is on a 10,000 change, over kill but also lets me inspect the lube for digested gears/races/bearings... Thanks...
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
BMW's latest RSD which contains the maintenance and repair data for all the models shows the FD oil change for at least the '09s. The '08s too, I didn't check them all, but the '06es don't say to yet.
I like Honda Moly 60 too.
I have seen one GS (newish) where the splines were rusted to the final drive and separating them was nearly impossible. The front splines at the trans are not as vulnerable, but probably should check them too.
I like Honda Moly 60 too.
I have seen one GS (newish) where the splines were rusted to the final drive and separating them was nearly impossible. The front splines at the trans are not as vulnerable, but probably should check them too.
pglaves
#13338
Jack, Have you examined a pinion shaft seal or the axle shaft seal(s) in these units? I haven't, but am certainly curious as to how they imagine that a pressure vessel with rubber seals works as the FD heats up and cools down in normal use. And I also wonder if the ventless design is contributing to seals that puke oil all over, occasionally.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
The seals are the usual looking 'rubber' material that the 1150 seals look like. With the spring in the lip.
I had the oil puke on my '08 K12S when it was new after I changed the lube. I don't think I overfilled it, but about an ml or two came out of the outside seal. Made me nervous, but then it dried up. Maybe I overfilled it 2 ml. When the drive is warm and I take the plug off the rear (3 o-clock position), it squirts a drop or two out under mild pressure. On the K12S, that plug is above the fluid level with the bike on the sidestand. I haven't seen any leakers at the local dealership since the '05 GS bikes had some quality control issue with the production seal install.
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W
WDaigle
Guest
Well it's happened to me now. Took my 2006 RT in to the shop today for a scheduled service. The bike has 48,500 miles on it. I purchased it new in May of 06. During the service the tech noticed side to side play at the rear wheel. There has never been any oil leak or seepage from the final drive. The oil did not show anychips flakes or metalic paste. They suspected that the bearings were starting to go out. I had checked for side play at the wheel about a month ago prior to going to the Dogwood Trail Rally. Round trip this was about 480 miles. I've only taken acouple of short (40 to 50 mile) rides since. I left the bike there and was called later today by the tech. He opened up the final drive unit and said the bearings look fine but the crown and pinion gear are bad. The final drive oil was changed at 600 miles and every 12,000 miles after. How can this happen? The bike is out of warranty because of mileage but not years. They have contacted BMW but no word yet. The two recommendations by the shop are a complete new final drive(between $1800 &$1900 plus labor) or rebuild final drive with new gears, bearings, and seals ($1,000 or more for parts plus labor). Any comments,suggestions, or reccomendations?
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cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
New drive.
When the bulletin that came out recommending a fluid change at the 600 mile checkup, there was some reference to flushing the drive of manufacturing residue. I wondered if this was chemical or what. Having the crown and pinion toast is really odd. You mean the teeth mesh or is it the bearing surface on the pinion shaft...but not the bearing?
When the bulletin that came out recommending a fluid change at the 600 mile checkup, there was some reference to flushing the drive of manufacturing residue. I wondered if this was chemical or what. Having the crown and pinion toast is really odd. You mean the teeth mesh or is it the bearing surface on the pinion shaft...but not the bearing?
pglaves
#13338
Jack,
The first couple of times I saw the factory fluid drained from these drives (probably in 06) I was convinced by its appearance that it had a moly additive. Gray - slimy - almost a creamy sheen to it. I was told by the tech that he had been told that it looked like that because of the residue from the manufacturing/assembly process.
My hunch is that they were burnishing the gear teeth or something and the excess gets picked up in the initial fill of oil. I hope I wasn't seeing all the excess metal they didn't get out before sending the bike away on a ship.
W
WDaigle
Guest
I don't know which it is Jack. I was at home when the tech called and he just said the gears were bad. I'm going back to the shop Saturday morning to look at it and decide which repair option to go with. I think that for my own peace of mind I'll probably gor with the entire new final drive unit. Of course that depends on if BMW decides to give me some sort of good will assistance on this. For what it's worth I had ridden the bike there and did not have a way to get back home untill my wife got off work at 4 PM. They had an employee drive me home (50 miles one way). They have always given the best service that they can for a small shop.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
I was wondering about the pinion shaft because somewhere along the way they increased the size of the inside pinion shaft bearing which uses the pinion shaft end as the internal race. I think 8/06. Anyway, I would get the latest drive if I lost one. Some of this is really the cost of riding. I would like BMW to get everything right the first time and $20K...etc. but the bottom line is sometimes you have to get on with it and ride.
On the initial drain, it really looked like moly or assembly grease (same thing?) and there never was much on the magnet in the drain plug (three different K1200Ses). I put the magnet plug into all three before ever draining the drive. Not much there. What was there was a really fine black magnetic goo about enough to get under your thumb nail.
I would be surprised if BMW doesn't assist on this one.
On the initial drain, it really looked like moly or assembly grease (same thing?) and there never was much on the magnet in the drain plug (three different K1200Ses). I put the magnet plug into all three before ever draining the drive. Not much there. What was there was a really fine black magnetic goo about enough to get under your thumb nail.
I would be surprised if BMW doesn't assist on this one.
