The pleasure of riding without a helmet?

[BCKRider]

Harry, you're either a liar or you utterly fail to understand written English. There is nothing in any of those studies which states that a white helmet will help you avoid accidents. A white helmet is more visible and could (as the part of the study I quoted states) help you be more visible and reduce your chances of getting hit. You're clearly not understanding the difference here, and that's a real problem, especially if you're at all involved in rider training.

Let me repeat, since you're clearly not getting it. Wearing white or hi-viz garments or helmets generally makes you more visible to other motorists. That's a good thing, and it can help to keep them from hitting you. What those white or hi-viz garments won't do is help you avoid accidents. That implies that the garments are taking an active safety role, which they are not.

You are doing the people on this forum, your students, and yourself a disservice by spreading false information. You are going to get someone hurt or killed.

05Train, you are absolutely correct that the color of the helmet, the color or hi-viz quality of your torso, and the extra lighting you chose to put on the front and rear of the bike are PASSIVE and do not "help YOU avoid accidents." Rather, all these things, in some measure, reduce your risk because they "help OTHER MOTORISTS avoid an accident with you." It is anything but surefire, we all know. But if, on some occasion, they prevent another motorist from doing something stupid when I am also having a brain fart, they may save my life.

On another thread in this forum a rider posted a "safety slogan" I really like: "RIDE LIKE YOU ARE INVISIBLE." I would like to amend it to "RIDE LIKE YOU ARE INVISIBLE, BUT DON'T BE." Do what ever feels right for you in terms of all the gear stuff; do the swerves when you see a line of approaching traffic which could harbour a car ready to pass right into you or a car waiting to turn into your lane. BUT, in a small percentage of cases, you are STILL INVISIBLE. So you have to slow down, cover the brakes, and prepare to stop or swerve.

I think higher visibility gear and actively "showing" your bike can substantially decrease the number of times you have to take "emergency" action. If you still expect to take some action despite your efforts to make yourself visible, the "emergency" is often reduced to a hard action, because you anticipated the possibility. True "emergency" reactions often end badly.

 

[henzilla]

MOD Warning

OK fellas, while we all appreciate a CIVIL debate and others OPINIONS, this has taken a sour tone.
Personal attacks, however subtle will not be tolerated.
Tone it down or lose it

It is more of a Campfire topic at this point as well and most likely will be moved as well

 

[mika]

Late to the thread and back to the OP:

I purchased my first helmet I wore riding motorcycles to go sports car racing. I had ridden for several years without a helmet. Young and dumb, no argument there, I had spent every dime I had for motorcycling on the buying the bike(s) and gas. There was little or no money left over for gear. Gloves and goggles were the order of the day. Any other gear had to be dual purposed and the motorcycle was the secondary use for it. The helmet was an open face Bell. It was great in the Spridget we raced but sucked on the bike. It marginally less loud and uncomfortable than riding without. The only real advantage was adding a clear full face shield allowed late night riding expanding my range of hours and distance.

My first full face was an early Shoei. Long before this galaxy became aware of Darth Vader and shortly after they were made legal for street use I bought this black capsule to stick my head in and turn myself into the Dark Lords predecessor . Hot, no air movement due to an open or shut visor and marginally improved sound control the thing had few socially redeeming qualities. I would ride helmetless around tracks or camp grounds and short jaunts into town for supplies but gear up for longer rides. (Yes I know the ride from your saddle to the pavement is less than six feet but we aren't talking rational things here – accidents happen to the other guy). The following season Shoei (they fit my melon best) came out with a new and improved model. This began an ongoing relationship between them and my wallet I have not been able to completely control.

I fully understand the safety reasons to wear a helmet and support them; however, if I am honest they aren't the reason I wear one all the time. Comfort is the main reason. Yes my helmets are light color but not because of a carefully controlled study; I find light colored helmets cooler for my head. I wear a full face because they are quieter and I don't loose goggles and sunglasses all the time. Comfort came with the accessory of safety benefits.

I do question the part about protecting the brain. Yes helmets go a long way to protect the skull and have been improving how they protect the brain. Still there is a long way to go in how they are designed before they are more than containers that leave your corpse with a pretty face and a one piece skull containing oatmeal that was a brain before the accident.

I ride a naked bike. Temperatures in the past weeks have had me questioning wearing a helmet. I remember how it felt to ride without a helmet on these days. On the walk to the garage the discussion among the four guys inside my helmet has come to the conclusion to take the Turdmobile (nothing more than a really big helmet with AC) until it would be comfortable to ride with a helmet again.

YMMV

 

[braddog]

Late to the thread and back to the OP:

<snip>
I fully understand the safety reasons to wear a helmet and support them; however, if I am honest they aren't the reason I wear one all the time. Comfort is the main reason. Yes my helmets are light color but not because of a carefully controlled study; I find light colored helmets cooler for my head. I wear a full face because they are quieter and I don't loose goggles and sunglasses all the time. Comfort came with the accessory of safety benefits.

<snip>
YMMV

That's pretty much where I'm at as well. As a kid, riding in the rural areas, I wore a helmet probably 80% of the time. I rode bikes without fairings or windshields, so I wore a helmet with a face shield. Keeps the bugs out of your teeth.

I commute a lot on my motorcycles. Unfortunately, I am forced to take approximately 10 miles of freeway each way as part of the commute. There's really no other practical route. I cannot imagine not wearing a helmet on the freeway with all the crap that's flying around.

I really don't care if riders ride without helmets, I'll not wag my finger at them or lecture them, frankly I just don't know how they do it, especially at speed on the freeway.

By the way, when it comes to visibility, I saw a group of Goldwing riders on the freeway one day. 2 of the 3 bikes were bright yellow, and the riders and passengers were wearing white helmets. They were about as visible as they possibly could be, at least to me.

 

[roborider]

So Brad, do you favor mandatory helmet usage laws?

 

[frontiercat]

I just simply hate "helmet-hair"....

 

[BCKRider]

Henzilla, as the OP I really hope you will not close this thread. I trust none of my posts have drawn your ire. (This is a lot to ask, but could you send PM's to those of us who are close to stepping over the edge?) No problem if you want to move it to "Campfire."

When I asked 05Train where he found "clean air," I wasn't being sarcastic. Early this evening I took a 25 mile ride to meet my wife and granddaughter for dinner and a movie in a town 25 miles away. (They had taken the car earlier in the day to do other things.) After the movie I donned the gear stowed in our car, cleaned a half dozen bugs off the face shield, and headed home just as it was getting dark.

Wish I had the skill to photograph and post a picture of my helmet 25 miles later. The bugs were all small, but best guess about 150 would have hit my face. My original question still stands, though I appreciate now that there may be a few occasions where helmetless riding IS truly pleasureable.

 

[ANDYVH]

Personally, I can't fathom a long ride in the constant noise, wind, bugs, stones, rain, hail, and whatever else, without some face/head protection. Aside from protecting my brain, a good quality/good fitting/good ventilated helmet (all that means not a $59 cheapy helmet, but not a $300 one either) adds SO much comfort I cannot go riding without it. Nothing to do with mandatory helmet laws, but all about coverage and comfort.

Just a day ago, riding my RS equipped with a taller Cee Bailey windshield, full face helmet (faceshield up, sun visor down) I got wapped/splattered on the sun visor by a juicy bug, right in line with my left eye. Had I not been protected I likely would have gotten bug guts right in my eye.

 

[brownie]

Floriduh...

..being a Floriduh rider.. it makes me sick to see so many riders with NO helmets, shorts, flip-flops, etc......I understand the helmetlessness is usually caused by biker peer pressure.....but the shorts?? flip-flops????

 

[BCKRider]

I just simply hate "helmet-hair"....

Hey, frontiercat, YOUR FIRST POST! Welcome to the forum. BTW, have no clue what you meant, but maybe it will become clearer in further posts. Always good to get new perspectives.

 

[05Train]

When I asked 05Train where he found "clean air," I wasn't being sarcastic. Early this evening I took a 25 mile ride to meet my wife and granddaughter for dinner and a movie in a town 25 miles away. (They had taken the car earlier in the day to do other things.) After the movie I donned the gear stowed in our car, cleaned a half dozen bugs off the face shield, and headed home just as it was getting dark.

My answer wasn't sarcastic either, I just think you misunderstand what I'm saying. "Clean" air refers to an airstream unmolested by a windshield or fairing, not air without bugs. Bugs, wind, and noise are part and parcel of riding.

Though you feel the wind blast without a helmet, what you don't get is any sort of head bobble from air currents catching parts of the helmet. It's also (with earplugs) much quieter than riding with a helmet (with earplugs). Bugs are bugs, and it can suck getting hit by them. If I wanted to get to my destination without any discomfort, I would have taken my truck.

To use one of those annoying riding slogans I hate, "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand". There's something about riding helmetless that utterly defies explanation. I know I'm putting myself at risk, and I know I'll be less comfortable without it. Doesn't matter though, and since it doesn't effect anyone but me and mine, it's a choice I should be able to make.

 

[bullet]

IF your head happens to have a sudden impact incident would you rather have a helmet on or not?
It really is that simple. Your head, your choice.

 

[05Train]

IF your head happens to have a sudden impact incident would you rather have a helmet on or not?

On, no doubt about it.

It really is that simple. Your head, your choice.

If it really was that simple, we wouldn't have the hand-wringers and the safety nazis trying to convince people otherwise.

I'm a big boy. I have a mother and a wife. I don't need the government or a bunch of anonymous people on ze InterWebz to tell me how to dress.

 

[K1600_gtl]

On, no doubt about it.

If it really was that simple, we wouldn't have the hand-wringers and the safety nazis trying to convince people otherwise.

I'm a big boy. I have a mother and a wife. I don't need the government or a bunch of anonymous people on ze InterWebz to tell me how to dress.

so should the government tell us who can ride a motorcycle and who can't? Should the state issue a license or should we all just learn on our own and start riding?

 

[pjjj3386]

When I was a kid ( the dark ages ) I rode my bicycle a lot. NO ONE ever wore a bicycle helmet.
Now I always wear a helmet riding my bicycle.
When I started skiing, NO ONE wore helmets. Now, I always do, and 60-70% of skiiers do.
I always wear a helmet on my motorcycle. Am I just smarter now. Or have times changed.
And if so, why are fewer motorcyclists wearing helmets today?

 

[05Train]

so should the government tell us who can ride a motorcycle and who can't? Should the state issue a license or should we all just learn on our own and start riding?

That's a great false equivalency. I'm sure you're proud of that.

Tell me, do you look to the government to "help" you make all your decisions?

 

[K1600_gtl]

That's a great false equivalency. I'm sure you're proud of that.

no, it's government tell us what we can and can't do... no different.

Tell me, do you look to the government to "help" you make all your decisions?

Depends on what I'm doing.... if I'm flying my 747 and need to remain safe and in compliance of established procedures, then yes... if I'm deciding which car to buy, I might look at EPA and NHSTA studies, or if I'm wanting to remain safe on my motorcycle, I'll look at the relevant studies, and comply with the laws of my state as established by the voters.

IF on the other hand I'm deciding how many kids to have, what Church to attend, or whom to vote for in elections, then no..

I have faith in the American system of laws and even if it's not perfect, it's better than most other places I've been and for the most part works. If you don't' like helmet laws, move to another state without them, or vote them out in your state.

 

[greenwald]

Depends on what I'm doing.... if I'm flying my 747 and need to remain safe and in compliance of established procedures, then yes... if I'm deciding which car to buy, I might look at EPA and NHSTA studies, or if I'm wanting to remain safe on my motorcycle, I'll look at the relevant studies, and comply with the laws of my state as established by the voters.

IF on the other hand I'm deciding how many kids to have, what Church to attend, or whom to vote for in elections, then no..

I have faith in the American system of laws and even if it's not perfect, it's better than most other places I've been and for the most part works. If you don't' like helmet laws, move to another state without them, or vote them out in your state.

Be careful, my friend.

You keep spouting stuff like that, you're going to get labeled a 'patriot' in my universe!

 

[05Train]

Depends on what I'm doing.... if I'm flying my 747 and need to remain safe and in compliance of established procedures, then yes... if I'm deciding which car to buy, I might look at EPA and NHSTA studies, or if I'm wanting to remain safe on my motorcycle, I'll look at the relevant studies, and comply with the laws of my state as established by the voters.

False equivalency again. Riding a motorcycle isn't flying a 747.

I have faith in the American system of laws and even if it's not perfect, it's better than most other places I've been and for the most part works. If you don't' like helmet laws, move to another state without them, or vote them out in your state.

This makes no sense whatsoever. If the voters in your state decided that they were tired of motorcycles on their roads, you'd be cool with them outlawing bikes?

Sorry man, I don't care for regulations designed to protect me from myself. Public safety is one thing (like your fallacious 747 example), but no one knows better than I what's best for me.

 

[Stan_R80/7]

From my understanding, there is a constant demand of human brains for medical research. Motorcyclist who do not wear a helmet help supply that demand. While the brain material may (arguably) not be from the most intelligent persons, it is suitable for use in medical research. I applaud those willing to donate their brain material for science.