The pleasure of riding without a helmet?

[BCKRider]

I once "laid her down" on a slow left turn in the middle of nowhere. Had geared down, slowed below the speed limit, was maintaining a steady throttle as I entered the turn, and then wondered why is my very modest lean angle increasing? This was on a backroad during hard rain after a long dry period. The person following me (a more experienced rider and usually much faster than I) had tested his ABS brakes and knew the road was very slick.

So, $1000 of cosmetic damage to the bike, but I'm able to ride the bike back home. What I STILL don't get is how I seemingly levitated off the bike: two dime size holes in my rain pants where they hit the pavement, NO physical injury. And there is a couple second total memory blank from "this bike is leaning too much" to seeing it sliding to a stop maybe 20 feet down the road.

I think what I SHOULD HAVE DONE is slightly reduce the throttle when that lean angle started to increase. Not something in my repertoire of tricks then, and not in my training or the books I'd read.

Sorry if this is thread hi-jacking.

 

[MOTOR31]

Actually, I'd rather hooligans and helmet less riders have no insurance so that they have no negative effect on the rest of us that ride responsibly.

That situation is when they have the greatest impact on the rest of us by our having to cover their medical bills. The property damage that may have happened also raises our insurance rates.

 

[05Train]

To the OP:

I have ridden tens of thousands of miles helmetless. I can speak for no one but myself. I absolutely love the feeling of the wind on my face. On a bike with no windshield, you've got nothing but clean air coming at you, so there's no buffeting at all. On a bike with decent wind management, it's actually quieter than wearing a helmet.

But mostly it's about the feel.

Sadly, after being nearly killed by a carload of texting teenagers, I find that I'm simply not comfortable without a full compliment of gear, including a helmet.

Edited to add: I will say that in high heat (100+) I'm more comfortable in a helmet, just the same as when it's really cold. The same statement can be made for gear in general; your temperature is regulated far better when you're covered up. That makes for a compelling argument to wear a helmet.

What doesn't is safety. You can quote the Hurt Report all you like, but the fact of the matter is that a helmet is only going to protect you in certain kinds of accidents and possibly prevent certain kinds of injuries. In my case, a $40 half helmet saved my life. In a friend's case, he tumbled helmetless and his head never touched the ground. I've buried friends who were wearing full-face helmets at the time of their crash.

In general terms, you stand a better chance of sustaining less damage in a crash by gearing up. But by the same token, you're also far safer in something with 4 wheels and a couple of tons of steel surrounding you. Every specious argument made about the increased cost(s) of helmetless riders can be equally applied to motorcycling in general. Think about that before you start demanding more regulation.

 

[AKsuited]

What doesn't is safety. You can quote the Hurt Report all you like, but the fact of the matter is that a helmet is only going to protect you in certain kinds of accidents and possibly prevent certain kinds of injuries.

Not true: a white or brightly colored helmet will help you avoid accidents entirely by making you more visible to other motorists. Therefore a helmet should be used to enhance visibility, and not just to crash more gracefully.

Harry

 

[05Train]

Not true: a white or brightly colored helmet will help you avoid accidents entirely by making you more visible to other motorists. Therefore a helmet should be used to enhance visibility, and not just to crash more gracefully.

Harry

No, that's not true. No color helmet will help you avoid accidents. You may be more visible to other motorists, but that's a passive (and somewhat questionable) side benefit of the helmet. Color choice will do nothing to help you avoid accidents.

Regardless, a white hat or bandana would have the same passive benefit, would it not?

 

[AKsuited]

No, that's not true. No color helmet will help you avoid accidents. You may be more visible to other motorists, but that's a passive (and somewhat questionable) side benefit of the helmet. Color choice will do nothing to help you avoid accidents.

Again, not true:
http://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857.full

Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.76, 0.57 to 0.99).

Scoffing at the findings of accident reports like the Hurt Report and the NZ Wells Report is counter-productive.

Harry

 

[timtyler]

My full face helmet has been hit by 80mph birds, rocks, and zillions of bugs, some big enough that I had to pull over and wipe them off immediately.

Sometimes I'll go without a helmet in a parking lot or driveway, and it's a refreshing feeling, but I feel vulnerable.

I can't imagine not wearing one. It would be like riding in sandals.

 

[K1600_gtl]

went out riding today with my ATGATT bright yellow and even though it was only in the mid 80's, and dry, which made it quite comfortable, I felt like I was getting almost dirty looks from other motorcyclists who were in the usual shirtsleeves and half helmet.... it's almost amusing, were it not so serious.

 

[05Train]

Again, not true:
http://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857.full

Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.76, 0.57 to 0.99).

Scoffing at the findings of accident reports like the Hurt Report and the NZ Wells Report is counter-productive.

Harry

Reading is fundamental Harry. The visibility is increased, no doubt about it, but it's a passive effect of the lighter color. The lighter color does not "help you avoid accidents" as you asserted in post #85. There is no active effect associated with lighter colored helmets in helping a rider to avoid being hit.

Semantics: they're important, as is understanding what you're reading. For instance, you might want to read the conclusion in the link you posted.....

Conclusions Low conspicuity may increase the risk of motorcycle crash related injury. Increasing the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, white or light coloured helmets, and daytime headlights are simple, cheap interventions that could considerably reduce motorcycle crash related injury and death.

Underlined emphasis mine. So once again, I'd suggest you brush up on semantics, as the report you linked makes it clear that white helmets could help save your bacon. Could, not will.

You shouldn't allow your preconceived notions get in the way of the facts. Just sayin'............

Edited to add: I know it sounds like I'm being harsh, and it should because I am. Too many people think that wearing "this" item or "that" item will make them impervious to harm when riding. Nothing will. I've seen guys in jeans and t-shirts walk away from horrific accidents. I've buried two friends who were wearing thousands of dollars worth of gear. The best protective gear in the world is worthless in certain types of crashes. The best you can do is be intimately familiar with what your machine can and can't do and ride defensively.

 

[K1600_gtl]

Reading is fundamental Harry. The visibility is increased, no doubt about it, but it's a passive effect of the lighter color. The lighter color does not "help you avoid accidents" as you asserted in post #85. There is no active effect associated with lighter colored helmets in helping a rider to avoid being hit.

Semantics: they're important, as is understanding what you're reading. For instance, you might want to read the conclusion in the link you posted.....


Underlined emphasis mine. So once again, I'd suggest you brush up on semantics, as the report you linked makes it clear that white helmets could help save your bacon. Could, not will.

You shouldn't allow your preconceived notions get in the way of the facts. Just sayin'............

I take it a step further and wear the new bright yellow color that many manufacturers are going to... the fact is, as the driver of a car, I notice these bright florescent ridders well before I normally might have if there were clad in black... anecdotal, yes... but I'm sure it gives me SOME kind of edge, and that's all I frankly need... along with some skill, luck and the will of God, I might die of natural causes..

 

[05Train]

I take it a step further and wear the new bright yellow color that many manufacturers are going to... the fact is, as the driver of a car, I notice these bright florescent ridders well before I normally might have if there were clad in black... anecdotal, yes... but I'm sure it gives me SOME kind of edge, and that's all I frankly need... along with some skill, luck and the will of God, I might die of natural causes..

Absolutely. You're far more visible with hi-viz stuff.

 

[henzilla]

How about a silver helmit??

or a chrome one?

 

[BCKRider]

05Train, thanks for joining the discussion. Could you tell us where you find the "clean air" that you enjoyed without a helmet for tens of thousands of miles? The only time most of us don't get bugs plastered across the face shield is when it gets cold - and you admit a helmet is more comfortable then.

As for whether helmets and other gear "prevent" accidents - well I think we could all agree they DECREASE the odds of a serious or even minor crash being fatal; they DECREASE the odds that a fairly minor crash will require a trip to the hospital; and higher visibility stuff INCREASES the odds that other motorists will see you and try to avoid getting in your way.

We all know, don't we, that "better odds" do not equal "certainty;" that our best defense is an alert mind, the ability to recognize potential problems before they are in our face, and good riding skills? All that expensive gear is first to make the ride more comfortable and second to perhaps save us from a worse fate if we do crash despite our best efforts - or because our mind wandered from the primary task at the wrong time.

I think the "danger" of good gear is that "compensation factor" you have probably read about, taxi drivers with ABS who drove more recklessly than their counterparts with standard brakes. Maybe us ATGATT types should ask ourselves if we would be riding differently if our attire was a helmet, T-shirt, shorts and runners.

 

[05Train]

05Train, thanks for joining the discussion. Could you tell us where you find the "clean air" that you enjoyed without a helmet for tens of thousands of miles? The only time most of us don't get bugs plastered across the face shield is when it gets cold - and you admit a helmet is more comfortable then.

Pretty much any state that allows adults to decide what they want to wear.....Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Texas, Connecticut, Ohio, Indiana, Arizona, Florida, South Carolina, Arkansas.....Hell, even Maryland back before they decided they knew what was best for us. They were all good. Oh, and a helmet is warmer in the cold weather, not more comfortable.

As for whether helmets and other gear "prevent" accidents - well I think we could all agree they DECREASE the odds of a serious or even minor crash being fatal; they DECREASE the odds that a fairly minor crash will require a trip to the hospital; and higher visibility stuff INCREASES the odds that other motorists will see you and try to avoid getting in your way.

No helmet prevents accidents, period. What they do is decrease the chances and/or severity of head injury. Hi-viz increases the the odds that another motorist will see you, but there's no effective difference between a helmet and a hat.

We all know, don't we, that "better odds" do not equal "certainty;" that our best defense is an alert mind, the ability to recognize potential problems before they are in our face, and good riding skills? All that expensive gear is first to make the ride more comfortable and second to perhaps save us from a worse fate if we do crash despite our best efforts - or because our mind wandered from the primary task at the wrong time.

You'd think we would, but clearly some don't. There is no magic article of clothing that will prevent accidents or keep you alive no matter what. Believing so is foolish, and I've observed that faulty line of thinking lead to a lack of vigilance while riding. I'd rather see someone who understands the risk of riding and knows how to handle a bike wearing no gear than someone who's ATGATT and thinks they're invincible because of it.

I think the "danger" of good gear is that "compensation factor" you have probably read about, taxi drivers with ABS who drove more recklessly than their counterparts with standard brakes. Maybe us ATGATT types should ask ourselves if we would be riding differently if our attire was a helmet, T-shirt, shorts and runners.

Precisely my point. No helmet (or gloves, or whatever) will protect you 100% of the time from 100% of injuries. No article of clothing will keep you from crashing.

Edited to add: Hitting the ground at speed hurts less with gear on, there's no argument there. When I got broadsided by the texting teenagers, my torso and arms (which were protected by a leather jacket with armor) were untouched even though the jacket was shredded. My legs were protected by denim and leather. My right kneecap shattered when I landed, and the denim burned the impact area a bit. My feet and ankles were sore, but my boots protected them. My half helmet was a mess, but the only damage to my head was a concussion and scrapes on my nose and eyebrow from my glasses. My hands.....My hands were in good quality Lee Parks Designs gloves. There wasn't a mark on them, but my left wrist was compacted about 1-1/2 inches, and I broke two bones in the palm of my right hand.

I say all this, because I had the "proper" gear on my body, my feet, and my hands. The body survived unscathed, the feet were hurt but not badly, and the hands were demolished. There isn't a pair of gloves in the world that would have saved my hands. I had the "wrong type" of helmet on too, and it worked flawlessly.

Wear what you're comfortable wearing, but remember that the best, most expensive gear in the world won't protect you or keep you alive if the crash is bad enough. Or you get run over after the crash. Or you slide into a tree at 70mph. And so on.

 

[175781]

It's about risk management. It's also about the snowball effect. Funny thing is, folks that tend to take one safety precaution often take others. In law enforcement, if you see someone breaking the law, more often than not, they're not just doing one thing wrong. The reckless driver often has alcohol or drugs in the car, or expired tags, etc. etc. Folks who wear a non-mandated safety item often take other steps, making safety stats slippery. I wear a helmet because I have a family. Half helmets frequently in 90 plus degree weather. Shoei and Nolan FF/Modulars in cooler weather. The full face helmets are a lot safer. I voluntarily give up some protection for the cooler, more enjoyable half helmets in summer. Ironically, my half helmets are white while my full helmets are dark. I don't normally wear armor of any type.

 

[05Train]

It's about risk management.

Bingo. If I wanted to be 100% safe, I'd never leave the house. Or I'd only go out in my truck. The vast majority of the population doesn't ride, and thinks we're all dangerous adrenaline junkies for being foolish/crazy/stupid enough to ride motorcycles. Remember that every argument that's made for mandatory helmet use can also be applied to keeping us off our bikes.

I choose to ride. I accept the risk involved in doing so. No one else bears that risk, and no one outside of my family and friends is impacted in any way if I'm killed doing what I love.

 

[AKsuited]

Reading is fundamental Harry.

You apparently refuse to believe what you read. That has nothing to do with reading comprehension. It has more to do with drinking the no-helmet cool-aid.

The visibility is increased, no doubt about it, but it's a passive effect of the lighter color. The lighter color does not "help you avoid accidents" as you asserted in post #85. There is no active effect associated with lighter colored helmets in helping a rider to avoid being hit.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the findings of a carefully performed accident study. Why?

Wearing hi-viz or white helmets will not guarantee you do not get in accidents. I never said it would. I said, or rather the study said, that it would improve your odds and lower your accident rate, 24 percent for a white helmet, even higher, 37 percent for fluorescent colors.

The reason is that many motorcycle accidents are caused by obstructed vision, something hi-viz and white helmets won't help with. To deal with idiot drivers who pull into traffic when their vision is obstructed you must improve your defensive driving to recognize that obstructed vision produces accidents and therefore identify these scenarios and take action by slowing down and being prepared to stop or swerve.

Criticizing my reading comprehension when you refuse to acknowledge what is written is a weak argument, to put it mildly.

Harry

 

[05Train]

You apparently refuse to believe what you read. That has nothing to do with reading comprehension. It has more to do with drinking the no-helmet cool-aid.



Again, you refuse to acknowledge the findings of a carefully performed accident study. Why?

Wearing hi-viz or white helmets will not guarantee you do not get in accidents. I never said it would. I said, or rather the study said, that it would improve your odds and lower your accident rate, 24 percent for a white helmet, even higher, 37 percent for fluorescent colors.

The reason is that many motorcycle accidents are caused by obstructed vision, something hi-viz and white helmets won't help with. To deal with idiot drivers who pull into traffic when their vision is obstructed you must improve your defensive driving to recognize that obstructed vision produces accidents and therefore identify these scenarios and take action by slowing down and being prepared to stop or swerve.

Criticizing my reading comprehension when you refuse to acknowledge what is written is a weak argument, to put it mildly.

Harry

It utterly terrifies me that you teach motorcycle safety. I have not discounted a word of any of the reports you've linked, merely pointed out that you're misquoting them and doing riders a disservice by asserting things as facts which those studies don't state.

You said, "a white or brightly colored helmet will help you avoid accidents". That is patently false, and there is no study extant that says anything of the sort. By posting this, you risk a new rider thinking that he's getting some sort of active safety from a white helmet. He is not.

You think everyone should wear what you think they should wear. That's fine, but don't invent an appeal from authority when even a cursory review of your linked reports proves you wrong.

And the "no-helmet cool-aid"? Really? I'm suggesting that adults can make informed choices about what they wear. You're the one sneering down your nose at anyone who doesn't think like you do.


Edited to add: The question originally asked was, "what is the pleasure of riding without a helmet?". I've answered it. Since you apparently don't feel that pleasure, I'm not sure why you're posting in this thread, other than to vent your spleen.

 

[scqtt]

The vast majority of the population doesn't ride, and thinks we're all dangerous adrenaline junkies for being foolish/crazy/stupid enough to ride motorcycles. Remember that every argument that's made for mandatory helmet use can also be applied to keeping us off our bikes.

 

[K1600_gtl]

all this chatter and speculation about what helmets and gear bring to riding is academic for me... The guy who lives literally across the street is right now in a body brace and recovering from a hit and run (t-bone) at an intersection where a woman in a mini-van wasn't paying attention and ran the red light.... he is alive today because he was ATGATT... doctor said he just barely made it. Helmet took the brunt of the ground impact.