Gearing up for first track day..

[mjfink420]

2 others I am familiar with and/or have taken: California Superbike School, Yamaha Champions Riding School

Champ school is a reasonable distance from me in September. Unfortunately, doesn't look like California superbike ever really gets that close to me.

Looks like going that way, I could rent everything for the 2 day course for ~4K. So, while a little less than buying a bike and going out to play, it's depreciates to 0 at the end of the weekend.

I have a good friend who's an instructor up in Millville, NJ (for Champ and others). I'm wondering if it might be cheaper to buy a bike/gear and then fly him down here (or trailer the bike up there) to get him to help me/show me the ropes of riding on track.

Man, this is a whole different (financial) ball game than I'd expected. I just kind of thought I could rent some time on a track and go have fun at higher than legal speeds; on dirt bikes (except for actual races) it was simple, show up with your bike, a helmet and gloves and boots (and sometimes a chest protector) and have at it. Of course, that wasn't always the right answer, you'd see all kinds of crazy stuff on dirt bike tracks, so maybe the financial barrier is a good thing to keep at least some of the crazy out?

I'm not sure I'm looking for the right thing honestly. I'm not looking to race, I'd just like to ride faster than allowable on most roads and have some fun. The thread below is kind of the experience I'm looking for, no wired up oil bolts/fillers, no requirement for leathers and I'd guess a more "fast for roads" pace than all out racing? I have no idea how to find this, but if I could get something more like what was described here, that's really more of what I'm looking for.

Track Day at Palmer Motorsports Park with the Yankee Beemers

Yesterday I did the track day at Palmer Motorsports park. Tony's Track Days runs a "Non-sportbike" day. all you folks who like twisty roads, but hate speeding tickets can come down on their RT's, K1600GTs, GS's, V-Stroms, BMW R100 /6's, Norton 850' Commando's, CX 500's and other not-a-sportbike...

forums.bmwmoa.org

 

[r0ckrat]

And if you decide to get a track bike, one of the greatest, most fun bikes for smaller displacement is an SV650. You can find them already prepped for track use a lot less expensive than buying and setting up a bike for track. If you are anywhere close to PA, I can put you in touch with the US SV guru - Mad8v... He often has or will know where one is available, and won't steer you wrong. (If you go watch a local race of the "light weight twins" classes, he'll be in a bright yellow set of leathers at most WERA events.)

 

[collingsbob]

My advice would be that you should attend a "track school" before doing a track day. There is a world of difference. In my opinion most track days are for experienced riders to practice their skills while track schools are to provide on-track training with good instructors in a controlled environment. I have lost track of who offers what schools where, but Voni and I started with Reg Pridmore's "Riders Advanced Training School (RATS)" in 1986 at the BMW MOA Rally at Laguna Seca. That was followed by Reg's "CLASS" several times and then by Jason Pridmore's "STARR" school a couple of times. Tracks included Laguna Seca, Heartland Park Topeka, and Road America.

I hope others will chime in here with what they know about current on-track schools and where they are provided and by whom.

I did levels 1-3 at FAST school at Shannonville east of Toronto…I highly recommend it..

Motorcycle Riding School | Fast Riding School | Shannonville

Fast riding school is a motorcycle streetbike riding school that will take you to the next level

www.fastridingschool.com

 

[mjfink420]

Fair warning: You will work harder and sweat more than you expect.

Racing motocross was the most physical sport I ever attempted. It was insane how much that takes, you watch a race on TV, it looks easy. Ugh, no, honestly, your first few times to a dirt bike track, you're doing "good" if you make it around 2-3X without coming off for a break. And if your technique is bad, you're not clearing the jumps, etc; oh my, is that a lot of work. I ride mountain bikes in events (they're not really "races", but well, we all know how that turns out, right) and I've never been as winded on a mountain bike as I remember being racing dirt bikes. I suspect road racing is similar; maybe a little less abusive to the body (the pounding on a dirt bike really ups the fatigue), but I expect it will be extremely challenging physically and mentally.

And if you decide to get a track bike, one of the greatest, most fun bikes for smaller displacement is an SV650.

Hilarious.. One of my other tabs open:

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2019-Suzuki-SV650-5031412617

 

[r0ckrat]

Hilarious.. One of my other tabs open:

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2019-Suzuki-SV650-5031412617

Snag it - quick! Maybe negotiate a little but don't let it get away!

(My first 80k miles was on a 2006 SV650, and got to where I could keep up with some really fast Ducati riders here in the SoCal canyons. For about 10 turns or less - before realizing how stoopid I was being and backing off...)

 

[mjfink420]

I did levels 1-3 at FAST school at Shannonville east of Toronto…I highly recommend it..

Motorcycle Riding School | Fast Riding School | Shannonville

Fast riding school is a motorcycle streetbike riding school that will take you to the next level

www.fastridingschool.com

Man, that looks awesome, exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for!

 

[mjfink420]

Snag it - quick! Maybe negotiate a little but don't let it get away!

(My first 80k miles was on a 2006 SV650, and got to where I could keep up with some really fast Ducati riders here in the SoCal canyons. For about 10 turns or less - before realizing how stoopid I was being and backing off...)

Chatting with the seller now, a whole lot of mods on that bike, full exhaust, tune, brakes.. Since you have some experience with the SV650, does this list of mods look like the stuff most would want to do or is it the "cheap out" (no name exhaust vs a full Akra system for BMW, for example). I just don't know my Suzuki tuners like I do BMW; Brentune, Wunderlich, Akra; those I know as the "good stuff" mods for BMWs; is this the "good stuff" for a Suzuki?

fully built/adjustable traxxion dynamics forks with fully adjustable Penske shock.full m-4 stainless exhaust.Moore mafia tuned ecu,sprint,vortex,renthal,brembo

 

[r0ckrat]

Yep - those are all quality components. The only thing that might need to be changed would be the spring rates depending on your weight vs the weight of the PO. If you are close, it'll be perfect. The only one I haven't heard of is the Moore Mafia tune, but that bike is also one of the more recent versions with the tube steel chassis. Mine had the cast aluminum box frame (2006). 83k miles on it (77k mine) when I sold it on the original clutch, and no issues.

 

[skibum69]

Talking bikes remember this old adage: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow.

I think getting a cheap track bike is the way to go to learn on. If I lived closer than 1000 miles from a track I'd be looking at a Ninja 250 or something comparable. Old, used and cheap. Sadly distance makes it I don't ride track but I do have an invite to go to my buddy's vintage club race training and he said he'd lend me one of his Ducati's. I have to do a fly and ride from Maryland, maybe I time it to go to Montreal for the race school? Hmmmm....

 

[RPGR90s]

Going to head down sometime this week and try on some suits, I'll make sure to try both 1 and 2 piece designs. Surprisingly, my local Cycle Gear has quite a few suits in stock, including some in my size! I'm shocked honestly. I've been riding for a long time now, and, with a few notable exceptions, typically on a really famous/popular motorcycle road, I almost never see anyone wearing a suit. Taking out the Tail of the Dragon (where suits aren't that uncommon), I think I've only seen 2-3 in my entire life out of the streets. Who's buying these things?!! But, whatever, glad they have them, having never worn one, I'll be nice to try a few on and get my sizing and see what I like/don't like in the various designs.

Now.. The final question.. Show up to my first track day on a S1000XR or buy another bike? While this sounds like a lot of $$, honestly, in some ways, this is less outlay than the gear. If I buy a small beginner bike (RC390, CF Moto 500, etc), it would have some residual value, honestly, what I'm seeing, they seem to hold value pretty well. So if I go a few times and don't like it, I'd suspect I can get most of the 5-6K back out of a small beginner bike, the gear depreciates to near 0 as soon as you use it, but the motorcycle does not. The other concern, taking the S1000XR for a slide would be expensive. Perhaps stupid expensive. I don't know for sure (going to investigate), but I think my insurance may specifically call out lack of coverage on a race track (I know I would if I were them!!). So a nasty fall, that could be the end of a 20K machine.

Still mulling it around; maybe do the first day(s) real easy on the BMW and, if I decide I like it, get a track bike and keep the 1000 for the street (yes, I'm aware, that sounds backwards!)? Or just get something cheap, a CF Moto 450, RC390, or a used 600-750 class machine and keep that for playing on the track? In my area, registration is dirt cheap, so I'd probably get plates for it and liability insurance; if I bin it, consider it a low cost (compared to binning the S1000) education?

Thanks for the help!

ETA: Just spoke with Progressive. As expected, no coverage on a "closed course", doesn't matter if you're racing or not, there's no coverage if you're on a track.

Respectfully, I think you're over-thinking the whole equation. Track Days are about having fun while seriously improving your skills on your bike.

I've done about 15, dividing them up between my old (and still surprisingly fast and capable) R90s and R1150RT. Both bikes were a lot of fun. You're in Novice so you want to improve your skills with your own bike. That's really the idea.

Another thing to remember. If it's a long trip to get there, consider trailering. At the end of the Track Day, you'll be physically and mentally drained and not in the best position for a long ride home.

 

[BC1100S]

Respectfully, I think you're over-thinking the whole equation. Track Days are about having fun while seriously improving your skills on your bike.

I've done about 15, dividing them up between my old (and still surprisingly fast and capable) R90s and R1150RT. Both bikes were a lot of fun. You're in Novice so you want to improve your skills with your own bike. That's really the idea.

Another thing to remember. If it's a long trip to get there, consider trailering. At the end of the Track Day, you'll be physically and mentally drained and not in the best position for a long ride home.

I'm in full agreement with all of the above.

First track day ever and you're looking to buy a track bike?

 

[kbasa]

I'm in full agreement with all of the above.

First track day ever and you're looking to buy a track bike?

My intention on track days was to get to know my regular ride in ways I couldn't explore on the street. A track bike to develop street skills sounds like a lot of expense that's not needed. When I've gone, I needed a regular full face with a Snell approval and no more than 3 or 4 years old, a riding suit that zipped together (I used textile on virtually all track days), boots, gloves, a bike with tires that aren't very worn, decent brakes and a full tank of gas.

I'd be reluctant to add expense when it's not necessary. The team providing the instruction should have a list of what you need to be wearing and how your bike should be prepped. Going to buy another motorcycle, that won't be the bike you're riding on the street, seems like an unnecessary expense until you're sure you want to become a track rat. If your intention is to learn better street skills, wouldn't you want to do that on the bike you ride on the street all the time?

And yes to trailering/sticking it in the bed of your truck. You'll be utterly thrashed at the end of the day. Riding motorcycles quickly on a track is a fairly physical day and your quads and glutes are going to be cranky.

Track luxury: An EZ Up and a comfy chair to sit in while you drink something cold out of the cooler you also brought.

 

[mjfink420]

Respectfully, I think you're over-thinking the whole equation. Track Days are about having fun while seriously improving your skills on your bike.

I've done about 15, dividing them up between my old (and still surprisingly fast and capable) R90s and R1150RT. Both bikes were a lot of fun. You're in Novice so you want to improve your skills with your own bike. That's really the idea.

Another thing to remember. If it's a long trip to get there, consider trailering. At the end of the Track Day, you'll be physically and mentally drained and not in the best position for a long ride home.

Me.. Overthink??? Never.

PRE is the group that seems to hold the most track days at my local venue (Carolina Motorsports Park). Seems there are a lot of rules, even in novice, many of them leading to some significant expenses (the biggest being a new helmet and leathers).

Obviously, I could prep my S1000XR for this. But a drop on that bike; phew, that would be either a really expensive day and/or a "goodbye" to the best bike I've ever owned. Of course, insurance doesn't cover you on the track, so; a slide the bends some stuff and rips up the plastics could easily be a total. I'm just not sure I'm willing to risk 20K my first day on the track.

"Track bike" is probably too strong a term. I'm looking for something that I can afford to bin and, kind of importantly, not kill my "baby". That's why I'm primarily interested in something in the 5-10K range, while it would be painful to see that fork lifted into the dumpster, I can afford it, and I'll still have the XR when I get home.

Also, some of this is my previous track experience, one of my first times on a "real" motocross track, someone cut in (came in the wrong area of the track, I never would have said it then, but, now, looking back, it was an understandable mistake) and sent us both to the hospital. Knock on wood, but in a few decades of riding now, the only place I've ever been seriously injured has been the track (all dirt, never been on a street track). Adding to this, I've been to 3 track days (as a spectator) in my life. One of them I watched a close friend come off and leave in a helicopter; he's an instructor at that venue, a very, very skilled rider, far better than I hope to be, but... Things happen, he made a mistake in a turn, swung a little wide, the rider behind him didn't expect it and hit him, sending both of them to the hospital, my friend for close to a month (the other rider broke some bones, but no major injuries). So, I'm not too much a "man" to say, I'm terrified.

The only thing I've bought so far is a Tech Air vest. And that, of course, will be multi-purpose, I've wanted one for awhile and using the plan of riding on a track as a good "excuse" to buy one. It seems really nice, BTW, very simple to use, not too intrusive; within a few miles, I forgot it was there.

I think I have a helmet I like (K6, IIRC), and I've tried on a few suits, so far partial to one of the airbag compatible A* that I was able to fit into. Good lord are those things uncomfortable! Fine in a tuck, but man alive, any other position, they are miserable.

I'm trying to find a good "2nd bike" something different enough from the XR, something I can afford to write off without much pain, and something both reasonably track capable and also fun/different enough that I'd want to ride it sometimes on the street. Going to look at a Duke 890 R next weekend; used, pretty reasonably priced, and very, very different from the XR, I could see myself enjoying that for short runs around town and perhaps as a good way to learn how to do a respectable wheelie! So it's not a "track weapon", it's more a good excuse for a 2nd, cheaper, lighter, slower bike to learn on track and for some fun doing something different than the XR.

 

[mjfink420]

Another thing to remember. If it's a long trip to get there, consider trailering. At the end of the Track Day, you'll be physically and mentally drained and not in the best position for a long ride home.

For sure. I didn't mention it, because, unlike riding on a track, I'm pretty good at trailering and loading machines, but I did get a long set of ramps and modified one of my chocks to fit in my truck. In the summer, we never use our RV (which is typically how we transport the bike, a toy hauler), so I needed either another trailer (which I really didn't want, too much to deal with, I already have 12 trailer axles I need to maintain across all my farm trailers and RV) or a way to get the bike into my pickup. Found a good deal on some really long ramps, so I picked them up. My pickup is a F450, so it's really high, necessitating the long ramp. I used to have a trailer for my dirt bike; a little nervous about "sending it" with a street bike up a ramp, but I'm pretty confident I can do it without too much drama. I watched someone dump it trying to load a dirt bike once, pretty ugly. It's one of those things you just have to commit, if you let off or don't have enough speed, things go sideways in a hurry!

 

[oldcamper]

I’ve never done a track day.

Serious question: Given the safety requirement of a snell helmet, full leathers, gloves, boots, good tires and such, along with reports from others regarding crashes, wadded bikes and even occasional ambulance injury, what is the actual likelihood of crashing on any given track day? Do observers witness many crashes?

 

[pglaves]

I’ve never done a track day.

Serious question: Given the safety requirement of a snell helmet, full leathers, gloves, boots, good tires and such, along with reports from others regarding crashes, wadded bikes and even occasional ambulance injury, what is the actual likelihood of crashing on any given track day? Do observers witness many crashes?

During 6 or 7 on-track schools I attended there was only one crash. These were all Reg or Jason Pridmore schools.

 

[mjfink420]

I’ve never done a track day.

Serious question: Given the safety requirement of a snell helmet, full leathers, gloves, boots, good tires and such, along with reports from others regarding crashes, wadded bikes and even occasional ambulance injury, what is the actual likelihood of crashing on any given track day? Do observers witness many crashes?

IDK, but I'll give my experience after I go. Of course, gearing up for it, I'm trying to watch as many videos as possible to get an idea. I hear "it's rare" and then I also hear "it would be unheard of to do a track weekend and not see some wrecks".

Here's a guy who did his first track day giving his impression. In the linked section, he's talking about wrecks/runoffs; his memory is around 8 people (out of 30) wound up down or off the track. This was the beginner group (where I'd be) so one of the most germane to what I'm likely to experience:

Watching lots of these videos now, and the range seems pretty big, I've heard everything from 5-10% to close to 50% wind up down at some point in a track weekend. 50% sound ridiculous, how on earth can people afford to wad up a bike every other time they go?! But even the lower end of the estimates, figuring 5-10%, if it's your first day, has to be a higher chance you wind up in that "lucky" group.

We all have different financial means, so to some, it's no big deal to wad up a 20K motorcycle, get another one, see you next weekend. I'm not at all in that group! I have to think that even a modest lowside on a S1000XR is going to be 1000's of dollars to repair just the body work. Bend a fork, crack something on the engine; bend a rim; not bike killing damage, but easily many 1000's of dollars to put it back together. And, of course, as mentioned earlier, none of this is covered by insurance at all, you're taking all the financial risk riding on track.

I absolutely have gained one thing from investigating this so far; the "Take it to the track" mantra that you often see people say when someone is doing something dangerous on the streets, while obviously the right answer, there's a real good reason that many don't do it. It's expensive to "take it to the track", you need a lot of specialized gear and track time isn't cheap. And if you fall, which doesn't seem exactly rare, it goes to "very, very expensive" in a hurry.

 

[pglaves]

And so, again, I will repeat what I wrote earlier. There is a world of difference between a quality professional track SCHOOL, and a track day where a club or individual rents a track and invites riders to come ride fast. Somewhere in between would be a track day with some rules and some amateur guidance. Pick your poison very carefully!

 

[CaptCF]

If you do CSS or YCRS you can just do the 2 day school and use their bike (and gear if you want too). IMHO, that's the easiest way to try it out without going all in and you will get top quality instruction to boot. It's been a looong time since I did it, but when I did CSS the deductible if you binned one of their S1000RRs was ridiculously low so crashing wasn't even a worry (other than pain and suffering, etc.).

 

[r0ckrat]

Watching lots of these videos now, and the range seems pretty big, I've heard everything from 5-10% to close to 50% wind up down at some point in a track weekend. 50% sound ridiculous, how on earth can people afford to wad up a bike every other time they go?! But even the lower end of the estimates, figuring 5-10%, if it's your first day, has to be a higher chance you wind up in that "lucky" group.

It very much depends on your attitude going in, the type of event you are going to, and the attitudes of those you are riding near...

"Open Track Day" - yes, higher likelihood of some riders going down. Open track days are often used as practice days by amateur racers, or those looking to start racing. "Going down" does not equal "wadding up a bike" - which is why they have aftermarket fairings, frame sliders, etc. Everything is easy to patch unless you do some really serious damage. (Also why track bikes are rarely pretty once you get closer than 20 feet.)

"School day" - Should have a very low likelihood of riders crashing in any of the lower groups, small chance in the fastest group. The riders attending are looking to improve skills, are following the rules (or getting kicked out if the management is good), and everyone attending wants to go home with their bike. Passing zones will be limited, and boneheaded riders shouldn't be tolerated.

I absolutely have gained one thing from investigating this so far; the "Take it to the track" mantra that you often see people say when someone is doing something dangerous on the streets, while obviously the right answer, there's a real good reason that many don't do it. It's expensive to "take it to the track", you need a lot of specialized gear and track time isn't cheap. And if you fall, which doesn't seem exactly rare, it goes to "very, very expensive" in a hurry.

If you do something boneheaded on the street, you can die much easier (cars/trucks around you) and/or hurt more people (bicyclists/bystanders) and/or do more property damage. All of which you will then be liable for (possibly including jail time). Full stop.
If you take it to the track, you can explore your personal limits until you fall/fail, and not have traffic/pedestrians/bicyclists/most animals that can interrupt your path of travel, be injured, sue you, and put you in jail. And the likelihood of becoming dead is much lower (big, solid things are hard to hit at tracks, and there aren't cliffs to fall down if you run off, on purpose.)