ZUMO Tech Question?

[greenwald]

Thanks.

I'm looking forward to the weather-proof advantage and learning how to plan and download my own routes.

Otherwise, like you, I may minimize just how 'techie' I get for now.

Slow learner when it comes to gizmos.

 

[drw2ge]

Zumoforums.Com, Kev.

Mapsource may some day become your friend.. but at the start, you WILL curse it. Mapsource: A.K.A. "The Devils Program" I've been using it for a couple years now and it still isn't the easiest.. (but the best) It REALLY helps if you can find someone to show you the ropes... learning it on your own is tough.

All the BlueTooth stuff is childs play. EZ Peazy. All my music is on the 660 (stored on the microSD card) and my phone is paired to the 660 which is paired to the SENA, so you can listen to music, hear GPS voice commands and answer the phone. Pretty simple.

It's planning the routes.....

 

[tommcgee]

Zumoforums.Com, Kev.

Yeah, +1.

Personally, I can't stand using Mapsource for route planning, but have used it for years to look at old tracks.

Google maps and Earth are my route planners of choice and it's easy enough to save routes from there into your GPS if you like routes. (See zumoforums for a how-to.) I work better from a list of waypoints, but this is a just a preference because I do a lot of "where does THAT road go? when I'm on my way somewhere.)

I use "avoidances" and "faster/most direct" route to pick the type of roads I'm looking for.

 

[greenwald]

Zumoforums.Com, Kev.

Mapsource may some day become your friend.. but at the start, you WILL curse it. Mapsource: A.K.A. "The Devils Program" I've been using it for a couple years now and it still isn't the easiest.. (but the best) It REALLY helps if you can find someone to show you the ropes... learning it on your own is tough.

All the BlueTooth stuff is childs play. EZ Peazy. All my music is on the 660 (stored on the microSD card) and my phone is paired to the 660 which is paired to the SENA, so you can listen to music, hear GPS voice commands and answer the phone. Pretty simple.

It's planning the routes.....

I vote for a Garmin 550/660/665 "How To" seminar at the National!!

I'll attend it ............. twice.

 

[tommcgee]

I vote for a Garmin 550/660/665 "How To" seminar at the National!!

I'll attend it ............. twice.

The best way to learn something is to teach it.

 

[105258]

New to Zumo 660

I have used a 276C for the better part of ten year for motorcycle navagation, but the allure of better technology got me and I purchsed a Zumo 660 last week. So far so good, but I have one question.

Is there any way to delete all the routes or waypoints as in the 276C ( delete all). Deleting one at a time is a little tedious ?

 

[drw2ge]

Without having my 660 in front of me, I think if you go to tools, my data you may be able to delete ''all'' that way. (Rather than just Favorites, edit.) You could also do a master reset (but you lose everything, (take it back to day one) by putting your finger on the bottom right corner of the screen, turning it on and holding for a bit.

Re: Using Google Maps, it isn't ever going to work just right because the maps in your GPS and Google Maps are different. They are not exactly the same and that will always cause routes to lay improperly. In fact, it's important that the mapset in both Mapsource and your GPS are exactly the same for just that "point".

 

[tommcgee]

Re: Using Google Maps, it isn't ever going to work just right because the maps in your GPS and Google Maps are different. They are not exactly the same and that will always cause routes to lay improperly. In fact, it's important that the mapset in both Mapsource and your GPS are exactly the same for just that "point".

What you say is true and is why I consider GPS routing to be just a suggestion. Maps from anybody are never completely up to date with the reality of actual roads.

I like Google because it's very easy to use and maps get updated more often than any of the maps loaded in your devices. POI's are especially incomplete.

There are some great tools out there now like maps with bus stops marked along with the time the next bus is expected. Cool stuff. I think I saw this on the iPhone.

 

[Theo]

{snip}...Using Google Maps, it isn't ever going to work just right because the maps in your GPS and Google Maps are different. They are not exactly the same and that will always cause routes to lay improperly. In fact, it's important that the mapset in both Mapsource and your GPS are exactly the same for just that "point".

IMHO, I'm not sure I find this totally accurate. I regularly download routes generated on both Google and MapQuest to my Garmin Nuvi 550 and I have not had problems with roads "laying" differently. Garmin mimics whatever MapQuest and Google generates for a route.

I have noticed significant routing differences when directly comparing Google to MapQuest. This is not due to lat/lon differences, however. Roads are fixed to the Earth and coordinates of road points don't differ substantially between between the digital data collection tools used by the various mapping services (NavTeq, TeleAtlas, etc.) in the field.

What DOES differ are the several hundred road "attributes" (surface, speed limit, seasonal designation, etc.) and the various waypoints each mapping service uses to customize their product. Other differences between services are the presence or absence of new roads. This latter difference can be significant when routing and is most often found in mapping services that do not do frequent (at least quarterly) field updates.

Also, remember that when developing routes, each GPS manufacturer (and Google/MapQuest) develops their own routing algorithms. Almost all of the algorithms depend not as much on on the lat/lon data, but more heavily rely on the proprietary (NON lat/lon) road attributes given to them by the mapping services. Remember, each mapping service constructs their own road attributes.

The difference in routing between Google and MapQuest most likely originates in how their routing algorithms interpret these road attributes. I was not able to get Google to route me over a seasonal road (regardless of month of travel) in NH. However, MapQuest allowed me to do so. Thus, Google rejected seasonal roads for consideration in their routing algorithm where MapQuest allowed them. In this case, the seasonal road routing was 30 miles shorter!

So, I am suggesting that the routing differences appear to be due to the "source" routing algorithm and not the Garmin. Because of my seasonal road experience, I prefer to use MapQuest for online route planning.

 

[drw2ge]

Theo,

I believe the routing algorithm are all Garmin's... The GPS just takes raw data from "whatever" source you feed it (i.e. Google) and "recalculates" it and lays down the the route based upon:

A.)Garmin Internal routing algortihms (laying it onto your internal mapset in your GPS)
b.) as well as your chosen "routing preferences" in your GPS. (They come into play if you don't have a ton of viapoints forcing everything

What do you think?

 

[tommcgee]

Theo,

I believe the routing algorithm are all Garmin's... The GPS just takes raw data from "whatever" source you feed it (i.e. Google) and "recalculates" it and lays down the the route based upon:

A.)Garmin Internal routing algortihms (laying it onto your internal mapset in your GPS)
b.) as well as your chosen "routing preferences" in your GPS. (They come into play if you don't have a ton of viapoints forcing everything

What do you think?

Garmin's routing algorithms frequently change when there is a map or firmware update, and they are not always the same from one model to the next.

One reason I like to route by waypoints is to find roads I haven't been on before. I've been covering close to 50K miles a year for the past 35 years doing field service in New England -- and I loved getting dumped on rural tertiary roads in the less densely populated places.

 

[Jim Rogers]

As a MAC user, I use Garmin RoadTrip to plan all my rides. When I get my quarterly lifetime update from Garmin, it also updates RoadTrip so the map versions between the garmin and the software always match. I just give RoadTrip a starting point and an ending point. It then calculates the shortest/fastest route based on my Preference setting. If I want to then modify the predetermined route, it is just a simple drag and drop various points in the run and the software does the rest. I then tell RoadTrip to load into my Garmin. Again, by setting the Preferences to transfer only the route (route checked, way-points unchecked), that is what it does without making any way-points or any of that extra stuff yet the route and directions are right there. Very easy to use. I know nothing about the PC side.

 

[drw2ge]

I thought you MAC guys used BaseMap???

 

[Jim Rogers]

Us MAC guys can use BaseCamp for trip planning. BaseCamp is listed in the 'On the Trail' section on the Garmin website while RoadTrip is listed in the 'On the Road' section. I just don't need (nor can my units use) all the extra stuff contained in BaseCamp. So, I have stayed with what works for me and what I am used to using. Maybe, now that I have Heidi and have retired, I should look more into BaseCamp. But that might result in getting yet another Garmin unit, RamMount, etc.

 

[Theo]

Theo,

I believe the routing algorithm are all Garmin's... The GPS just takes raw data from "whatever" source you feed it (i.e. Google) and "recalculates" it and lays down the the route based upon:

A.)Garmin Internal routing algortihms (laying it onto your internal mapset in your GPS)
b.) as well as your chosen "routing preferences" in your GPS. (They come into play if you don't have a ton of viapoints forcing everything

What do you think?

The "source" program (if it's not MapSource) most likely generates a GPS eXchange file to be downloaded to the GPS unit. These ".GPX" files are actually XML text files with route-points or way-points and some additional information. You can actually open a GPX file with Notepad (Win) or TextEdit (OSX) and see the contents and the tags.

If your GPX file contains only way-points, it is not a route; it is a collection of locations. You will be able to verify this by examining the GPX text. Way-points have tags that begin with "[waypt]"*. A "[waypt]"* is an isolated location that IS NOT associated with a route by the source that generated the GPX file; there is no data that describes how they might be connected.

However, if your GPX file contains only route-points then the data specifies the receiving GPS regard the data as a "routed" way-points. Route-points have tags that begin with "[rtept]"*. A collection of route-points specify the street-based path to be taken to navigate from start to finish.

You may have seen the difference between a list of way-points and route-points after your Garmin has imported a GPX file and converted it to a Garmin-native ".GPI" file. A list of way-points will be located exactly where they are supposed to be (as specified by the source) but the path that is shown connecting them is a direct "as the crow flies" route; the lines connecting the way-points do not lay-down on roads. However, a list of route-points "describes" a path that follows vectors aligned with streets and, thus, create a route that is drivable.

Most source programs allow you to choose whether you want your route in the GPX file to be saved as way-points or route-points. To preserve the source routing, always choose to save your GPX file as a route, not way-points.

Garmin software (MapSource, BaseCamp, etc.) creates Garmin-native GPI files directly; no GPX exchange is needed. That is why routes developed from the programs will always be faithfully shown on your Garmin. However, as long as your route planned on Google (seasonal roads being a big issue) or MapQuest is saved as a route and not way-points, you should also see the route as planned.

* - The actual tags in the XML files do not use square brackets, they use angled brackets: "<" and ">". I have changed them to square brackets because the forum software actually tries to interpret these tags.

 

[tommcgee]

However, as long as your route planned on Google (seasonal roads being a big issue) or MapQuest is saved as a route and not way-points, you should also see the route as planned.

My street pilot 3 and 2610 (and some of the C-series) always sent me down gated/seasonal/private/singletrack/paper roads in MA/NH/VT/ME when I set the preferences to shortest distance and didn't check unpaved in the avoidances. Granted that these were not pre-planned routes.

I usually avoid unpaved because of the backtracking I've had to do.

Your point about tweaking conversion files is well-taken.

 

[drw2ge]

Theo... I think I get what you mean.. I actually often edit Google map routes in Notepad because it isn't one route but many short routes and I must "concatenate" them by editing the Rteps. (all rte's removed after rteps). (after using GMap2GPX) One of the riding clubs I belong too often post routes in Google Maps...

I rarely use WAYPOINTS.. only for gas stations, restaurants that I WANT to see distance too, along my intended route,etc.. (I may just add them as favorites so they "show" along the route but don't become part of the calculation of the route.) ***I want/use VIAPOINTS at pure intersections.***

Don't you mean *.GDB versus *.GPI?????? .GPI are point of interest files, i.e. adding speed traps.

 

[omega man]

You guys are putting together another great resource thread on GPS. Thanks, Gary

 

[Jim Rogers]

Wow, glad to see some people who really know this stuff. I am very limited to using the Garmin software. Here is something that is bothering me - I tried to put a couple of routes from mapquest in my 765T a while back as an experiment to see which I liked better - Mapquest or Garmin software. It is there but now I cannot get it out of the 'My Data' folder. It does not even go away with a 'master reset' (touching lower right portion of screen during power up). It is also not listed in any Garmin directory when connected to the MAC. Nor does it transfer back to RoadTrip. (havent tried BaseCamp, yet) Yet, every time I look at the My Data folder, there it is. Any Ideas?

 

[Theo]

{snip}...Don't you mean *.GDB versus *.GPI?????? .GPI are point of interest files, i.e. adding speed traps.

My apologies! Way-points wind up in the ".GPI" file; route-points end up as a Garmin-specific verison of the GPX format. This GPX format contains Garmin-specific extensions to the basic GPX exchange data. That is why a downloaded GPX file needs to be "imported" to be used by Garmin. The importing for way-points in a GPX file creates a Garmin-specfic ".GPI" file.

Garmin's route files are added to a large "repository" of Garmin-specific route files in the "Current.gpx" file found in the GPX folder within the top-level Garmin folder. Remember that newer Garmin units can be connected to your computer via USB and appear as a mountable volume. Also, if you are using an storage card in your Garmin, it will appear as its own mountable volume.

@Jim - I haven't experimented with the 765T, but is it possible that the My Data folder might be on a plug-in storage card? I don't believe a master reset does anything to a storage card. Just guessing here...