mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
Excellent. Thanks for sharing it.
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What do young riders want?
- Thread starter oldcamper
- Start date
That was a good vid.
But one issue I have is young riders are not going to be buying new bikes unless they have rich parents.
And used cheap low mile bikes are a dime a dozen.
I came up through the dirt bike world as a kid and in 1979 I bought a used CB 750 with a full Windjammer fairing for 700 bucks. With money I made. It didn't run, all it needed was a battery tires and a tune up then it ran great. Loved that bike.
Point I'm trying to make is used bikes are really cheap, between helicopter parents, FB, video games, the young generation are more than glad to just stay inside and game. I know; I have a 12 year old and that's what he likes to do.
But one issue I have is young riders are not going to be buying new bikes unless they have rich parents.
And used cheap low mile bikes are a dime a dozen.
I came up through the dirt bike world as a kid and in 1979 I bought a used CB 750 with a full Windjammer fairing for 700 bucks. With money I made. It didn't run, all it needed was a battery tires and a tune up then it ran great. Loved that bike.
Point I'm trying to make is used bikes are really cheap, between helicopter parents, FB, video games, the young generation are more than glad to just stay inside and game. I know; I have a 12 year old and that's what he likes to do.
Visian
look out!!!
That was a well organized video IanPretty much covers all the thoughts that I have recently seen/heard on "the" younger generation- including their thoughts on motorcycling.
OM
This guy is really good and he truly knows wtf he is doing in social media. He has 325000+ followers and most of his videos are seen 200,000+ times. That, btw is more than 10x our membership for subscribers, and 1,000x for typical view counts for our videos.
I swear, the MOA should hire him to join the MOA and produce a video about his experience in the club... coming to an MOA Getaway and the National Rally, hanging out in the FB group, and *of course* here in our forum.
Then.... we would either use it as an advertisement about why to join the MOA.... or.... as a piece of marketing analysis to tell us what we are doing wrong!
greenwald
New member
Visian -
Your tireless efforts to perform CPR on the MOA, akin to a dying horse, is admirable. But I think we need to push back from the club table and bifricate realistic goals.
I've said it before and ……… what the heck, …...I'll say it again.
Young riders are NOT the future of the MOA.
Granted, they are the future of motorcycling. As a veteran training professional at the largest site in my state, I play a key role in sending hundreds of new riders out onto the streets every year. They come to me motivated to buy and operate a motorcycle - just not a BMW. They are expensive to acquire, and with this generation having diminished interest in mechanical abilities, they would prove very expensive and frustrating to maintain.
Again, young riders are NOT the future of the MOA. They ARE the future of motorcycling in general.
The MOA's target audience should be the early middle-aged couples emerging from the fog of having raised children, provided for college and see light at the end of the mortgage-tunnel. THEY are the ones likely to own a BMW. THEY are the ones likely to seek out the advantages of club membership.
We can keep spinning our minds and wheels fussing over the millennials, but you're trying to mine a resource that is unmotivated to cooperate. Why would we keep doing that?!
Your tireless efforts to perform CPR on the MOA, akin to a dying horse, is admirable. But I think we need to push back from the club table and bifricate realistic goals.
I've said it before and ……… what the heck, …...I'll say it again.
Young riders are NOT the future of the MOA.
Granted, they are the future of motorcycling. As a veteran training professional at the largest site in my state, I play a key role in sending hundreds of new riders out onto the streets every year. They come to me motivated to buy and operate a motorcycle - just not a BMW. They are expensive to acquire, and with this generation having diminished interest in mechanical abilities, they would prove very expensive and frustrating to maintain.
Again, young riders are NOT the future of the MOA. They ARE the future of motorcycling in general.
The MOA's target audience should be the early middle-aged couples emerging from the fog of having raised children, provided for college and see light at the end of the mortgage-tunnel. THEY are the ones likely to own a BMW. THEY are the ones likely to seek out the advantages of club membership.
We can keep spinning our minds and wheels fussing over the millennials, but you're trying to mine a resource that is unmotivated to cooperate. Why would we keep doing that?!
I mentioned in the "leaving" thread in the Clubhouse section that, while not renewing their MOA membership, riders should still support some sort of "organization" that promotes what they think is the best (for them) in motorcycling. I see too many quit an organization and not bother to support any group that helps keep their chosen activity.
I think with so many ways to be involved in the ever increasing amount of social media platforms.........What is needed is a Professional Cat Herder.
om
I think with so many ways to be involved in the ever increasing amount of social media platforms.........What is needed is a Professional Cat Herder.
om
That is a great video! Lots of excellent insights from his perspective.
One error, per Feb MCN motor cycle regisitrations have gone up from 3,826,373 in 1997 to 8,600,936 in 2015. More than doubled!! More bike on the road now than EVER!
Yes it is true that Harley, like he point out do have a sales problem, and as he points out $20k bikes are not likely going to find a lot of new young buyers.
I like his point that there still is a fair amount of interest, and NEED for bikes, scooters, etc from the more urban population now and the future.
I now think most of our motorcycle magazines are part of the problem. They are stuck in the rut of selling new bikes, selling expensive bike to a decreasing population of wealthy ( or at least well off) mostly older riders.
Maybe, if the magazines, and other media, shifted to more articles on "best used bikes under $5k" for the urban environment. How to find and maintain and older bike? How to take you city bike for a great experience on a week end road trip? etc etc.
Maybe the MOA mag could do better alone these lines too?
One error, per Feb MCN motor cycle regisitrations have gone up from 3,826,373 in 1997 to 8,600,936 in 2015. More than doubled!! More bike on the road now than EVER!
Yes it is true that Harley, like he point out do have a sales problem, and as he points out $20k bikes are not likely going to find a lot of new young buyers.
I like his point that there still is a fair amount of interest, and NEED for bikes, scooters, etc from the more urban population now and the future.
I now think most of our motorcycle magazines are part of the problem. They are stuck in the rut of selling new bikes, selling expensive bike to a decreasing population of wealthy ( or at least well off) mostly older riders.
Maybe, if the magazines, and other media, shifted to more articles on "best used bikes under $5k" for the urban environment. How to find and maintain and older bike? How to take you city bike for a great experience on a week end road trip? etc etc.
Maybe the MOA mag could do better alone these lines too?
Thanx vision for vid. Really nailed the millenials for me. In a lot of ways old cheap/broke beemer riders on SS share with the shrewd millennial. There's the aesthetic/grace of the timeless design of old machinery. The clickety-clack of valve trains, that can be fiddled with. The incredibly low price entry. Bang for bucks. Many times we chide the young for the cafe phenom. They're just doing their thing. Cheap transportation and cool factor.
The bothersome part is the spiraling niggling costs and regulations that drive many nuts trying to keep up. Eventually could get to the "why bother" mind set. Not to mention the ubiquitous green project on the horizon. Imagine the elimination of fossil fuel. If all we leave behind is a club, not much else will matter.
The bothersome part is the spiraling niggling costs and regulations that drive many nuts trying to keep up. Eventually could get to the "why bother" mind set. Not to mention the ubiquitous green project on the horizon. Imagine the elimination of fossil fuel. If all we leave behind is a club, not much else will matter.
Visian
look out!!!
"Built not bought" is the thing today and I think a main desire of young riders is to build a cool ride on the cheap. This is a major opportunity for our club to attract new members, imo, as older/used BMWs are cheap and parts are reasonably priced and readily available. The MOA has a lot of expertise available, too, especially if you count our chartered clubs.
Have you ever been to an Airhead Tech Day?
What do you mean by this?
Ian
Was thinking leaving a couple well kept bikes behind might be of some use to a club. I think? Young riders need a bike first, and then a club.
Who knows what MOA will look like in a decade? The vintage section should be huge. Wasn't an existential troll. Or maybe it was?
I'm an ABCer, but have yet to get over to a tech day. Somehow always busy. My real club is out in the garage. Have tech day all winter.
Who knows what MOA will look like in a decade? The vintage section should be huge. Wasn't an existential troll. Or maybe it was?
I'm an ABCer, but have yet to get over to a tech day. Somehow always busy. My real club is out in the garage. Have tech day all winter.
1957mpd
Knight-Errant
What They Want vs What They'll Buy
So today I road around the university and took note of every single motorcycle I saw parked on campus. The only one worth more than $20K I was riding. None were worth more than $10K, including the Ducs, HDs and even a few BMWs, all old enough their retail value was far less. Seems to me the question might be rephrased from "what do they want" to "what will they buy." Talking to the kids I've gotten to know, they buy exactly what I did in my twenties - what I could afford and could maintain. A really nice kid I've gotten to know is riding a 30 yr-old GXer he bought for $500, in Denver, in January, and rode 10 hrs back to NM in freezing temps. Without a helmet. (I bought him one on this forum.) If I were BMW, I'd put a major effort into incentivizing franchises to offer AFFORDABLE MAINTENANCE OF VINTAGE bikes. Honda already does and always has. BMW does not and deserves the consequences. Q.E.D.
So today I road around the university and took note of every single motorcycle I saw parked on campus. The only one worth more than $20K I was riding. None were worth more than $10K, including the Ducs, HDs and even a few BMWs, all old enough their retail value was far less. Seems to me the question might be rephrased from "what do they want" to "what will they buy." Talking to the kids I've gotten to know, they buy exactly what I did in my twenties - what I could afford and could maintain. A really nice kid I've gotten to know is riding a 30 yr-old GXer he bought for $500, in Denver, in January, and rode 10 hrs back to NM in freezing temps. Without a helmet. (I bought him one on this forum.) If I were BMW, I'd put a major effort into incentivizing franchises to offer AFFORDABLE MAINTENANCE OF VINTAGE bikes. Honda already does and always has. BMW does not and deserves the consequences. Q.E.D.
Visian
look out!!!
Ah, ok... legacy. Yeah.... but it would probably be of greater use to have a "hall of wisdom" technical resource like what Snowbum has put together. I wish that the MOA Foundation would invest in something like that for "education"...
Didn't see your post as a troll, just trying to get at your meaning.
I think you may not be considering what I think is our prime market segment... 35-55 riders with significant disposable income. They are the ones buying the $25k bikes that are the norm for BMW these days.
No one really knows, but I wonder if we are appealing to the majority of riders in this segment these days?
And... one thing for sure, we are fixin' to lose a bunch of members in the coming 5 years due to aging out... too old to ride.
If you look at the Tech Days photos in AirMail, you will always see 3-5 younger riders that aren't in the prime segment... they're budget riders and/or really into the simply elegant machines that BMW Motorrad used to make.
powwow
Member
Ah, ok... legacy. Yeah.... but it would probably be of greater use to have a "hall of wisdom" technical resource like what Snowbum has put together. I wish that the MOA Foundation would invest in something like that for "education"...
Didn't see your post as a troll, just trying to get at your meaning.
I think you may not be considering what I think is our prime market segment... 35-55 riders with significant disposable income. They are the ones buying the $25k bikes that are the norm for BMW these days.
No one really knows, but I wonder if we are appealing to the majority of riders in this segment these days?
And... one thing for sure, we are fixin' to lose a bunch of members in the coming 5 years due to aging out... too old to ride.
If you look at the Tech Days photos in AirMail, you will always see 3-5 younger riders that aren't in the prime segment... they're budget riders and/or really into the simply elegant machines that BMW Motorrad used to make.
Aging out...just ask Harley about that...
pglaves
#13338
The BMW MOA has always had a considerable number of "poverty riders." And many of them darn proud to proclaim it. The condition was not explicitly generational but did tend to be mostly among younger riders just beginning their BMW ownership of generally older bikes. There was a time that even almost new BMWs were "affordable." That is not a term that I apply to $20,000 + motorcycles when I consider the minimum wage, stagnant wage growth, college debt, housing costs, and the pensionless and benefitless "gig economy."
Perhaps what young riders really want and need is a loan? MOA could organize/capitalize/charter a bank, then provide low interest loans for BMW motorcycle purchases. Of course, they would require MOA membership to qualify. That would solve a number of pressing problems, help young riders get into BMW motorcycling, increase MOA membership, thereby increasing MOA's leverage with BMW NA to formulate items such as BMW purchase rebates for members and create an additional revenue stream for the "Club". Perhaps BoD will take this up next meeting, right after the raffle conference.
pglaves
#13338
Maybe - but the exploitive student loan industry would lead me to conclude that the last thing they need is more debt. YMMV>
I'm not sure about the US but here, BMW offers advantageous interest rates on many motorcycles. And if someone doesn't qualify for a loan from a bank I'm going to guess that they aren't a great credit risk. Not sure that our club getting into the banking business is a good idea. In fact, its a crappy one. Just my 2 cents, of course.
lee
Debbie's Servant
Right now BMW offers 0% interest on 2018 bikes.
When we bought our 2003 K1200RSs in early 2003 we got cheap interest from BMW, I think it was 2 % and BMW paid the first 5 payments.
That was a good promotion. On top of the cheap interest and the 5 paid payments BMW gave both of us a $750 voucher for BMW riding gear and $750 off of a Edelweiss tour in Wyoming.
I think we only paid $150 each for the tour.
I'm not sure about the US but here, BMW offers advantageous interest rates on many motorcycles. And if someone doesn't qualify for a loan from a bank I'm going to guess that they aren't a great credit risk. Not sure that our club getting into the banking business is a good idea. In fact, its a crappy one. Just my 2 cents, of course.
MOA in banking business was tongue-in-cheek of course. However, about 1/2 of the applicants for loan at a local multi line dealership (this was 10 years ago), didn't qualify for a bank loan. But, a good half on those non bank qualifiers received funding and rode away happy. Loan companies to the rescue...if one calls 18%+ interest rates being rescued.
1957mpd
Knight-Errant
Smart Kids
I am fairly certain no student at the University I hang out at is riding a bike with a loan. The bikes are too old to qualify as collateral for any reasonable interest rate and the kids are smart. They're riding what they can pay cash for, as I did at their age 40 years ago. Good on 'em.
I am fairly certain no student at the University I hang out at is riding a bike with a loan. The bikes are too old to qualify as collateral for any reasonable interest rate and the kids are smart. They're riding what they can pay cash for, as I did at their age 40 years ago. Good on 'em.
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