The High Cost of FD Failures

[Rinty]

FD failures

The real problem is numbers. There's not enough BMW's on the road to generate enough of a return for an aftermarket manufacturer to develop and market a reliable final drive.

When the new Harleys came out with the noisy square cut fifth gear, Baker immediately stepped in with a replacement 6 speed gearbox which features a bevel cut 5th gear.

There are gearbox shops around that could probably develop a reliable final drive for BMW's. The LA shop that built the rear end for Jay Leno's firetruck comes to mind. Or perhaps Baker. The hot rod and English bike mags are full of ads for small shops that do unique and complicated custom mechanical work.

But I don't think it's going to happen.

Rinty

 

[dlearl476]

I need to preface this post by saying the follwing title given to some of the posts on this thread of spinners of fables does not apply to those who have experienced trouble with their bikes. Your testimonials are your story, I'm genuinely sorry that it happened, but have to respectfully interject it does not mean it's going to happen to me, or other BMW riders. By making that leap here on this thread, you are spinning smoke, and can't back it up with anything concrete.

this is my second BMW, first was a 94 R65, traded it in, and now have a 05 GS. The spin here is the final drive is about to go on every unit. HA!...
I'm sorry but your post is what makes me see the damage here. These spin meisters get people worried about somthing that most likely will never happen to them, and they are ready to sell their bike, and the spin masters on this forum are responsible for this insane parinoia planted by a seed of unfounded suspicion that can't even be backed up by actual numbers.


Il'l drink the water in Gillette, and I will ride my BMW, just like the last BMW, FOR YEARS with no problems.

And thats my opinion. If you refute it, show me the numbers and reference where you got em. Show your cards here spinnies, or fold em.

Red

The words I read in the campfire and the words I and others send back and forth are mostly words laced with tounge and cheeck comments for fun, but every once an awhile, you see Beemer owners ACTUALLY believing some of the bull caca that is spewed about and selling their beemers or not buying beemers because of it; thats when I can't help but cut across the plane of inuendo and falsehoods with the knife of reality. You call it argument, I call it a call to fair play and reality.

Just for clarity's sake, I'd like to point out that the "high cost of FD failures" I alluded to in my OP isn't cash, it's the reputation of BMW's with these "alleged" failures. Here's my point. Real or imagined, 1%,4%, or 10% odds, when it comes time for you to sell YOUR bike, I won't be interested. I'm thinking there will be a whole bunch of folks with the same thought.
That's the "legend" BMW sold you.

 

[godfather]

the marque does not matter...an old gentelman once told me..."If it's got t*t's or tires, sooner or later it's gonns give ya trouble" No offense intended gals, just repeating what I once was told.

 

[12BSWAYED]

every bike has issues

The first BMW I bought was a R1100R with 39K on it about 3 yearrs ago. Two months later, it started leaking transmission oil....$900.00 later....I sold the bike the following year and bought a K1100RS. Great bike, but what a rump roaster! Sold....I now have an R90S that I bought last year. Love that thing! But not a long distance rider (at least for me).

Knowing I'd like to ride greater distances, I began looking for a new bike. Dual sports interested me, among others. I began talking to others about chain driven bikes and found there were people out there, including my partner, who have gotten 15K-20k miles on their chain and sprocket set ups. Replacement cost for the chain and sprockets was $130.00 (just for the parts, they did the replacement themselves).

So I decided on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 ABS. I couldn't be happier. Yes, maintaining the chain is a bit of a pain, but the replacement costs are way, way less than having to pay for a FD failure. I don't have to check valve clearences until 14k. Spark plug check at 7500K. Overall, the maintence on Jap bikes are way less, as well as the parts. Sure, there are things about this bike I find anoying.....as I would with any bike.

I love BMW's....I could have bought any BMW, I just don't like throwing money away in parts and labor every year.

 

[testinglogin]

Just for clarity's sake, I'd like to point out that the "high cost of FD failures" I alluded to in my OP isn't cash, it's the reputation of BMW's with these "alleged" failures. Here's my point. Real or imagined, 1%,4%, or 10% odds, when it comes time for you to sell YOUR bike, I won't be interested. I'm thinking there will be a whole bunch of folks with the same thought.
That's the "legend" BMW sold you.

I was really worried there for a minute, until I realized the used bike market is more than one person. Well, that, and until I realized I wasn't planning on selling my bike, anyhow.

 

[terham]

All airheads eat diode boards and rotors. Kbikes eat their input splines and final drive splines. Oilheads, particularly GSs, eat their final drives. QUOTE]

OMG, as my daughter texts, now I'm afraid to ride any of my bikes. I think I'll trade them on a Vespa. Vespas have any known defects?

 

[kreinke]

I was really worried there for a minute, until I realized the used bike market is more than one person. Well, that, and until I realized I wasn't planning on selling my bike, anyhow.

That F800 belt drive is looking mighty good now ain't it?

 

[knary]

OMG, as my daughter texts, now I'm afraid to ride any of my bikes. I think I'll trade them on a Vespa. Vespas have any known defects?

Two-stroke or four-stroke?

 

[redclfco]

Just for clarity's sake, I'd like to point out that the "high cost of FD failures" I alluded to in my OP isn't cash, it's the reputation of BMW's with these "alleged" failures. Here's my point. Real or imagined, 1%,4%, or 10% odds, when it comes time for you to sell YOUR bike, I won't be interested. I'm thinking there will be a whole bunch of folks with the same thought.
That's the "legend" BMW sold you.

Good your not buying because I'm not selling. And from everything I read, Honda Kawasaki, HDs MotoGuzzi, all have things that break..

So what are you going to buy that never has a mechanical failure?

May I suggest a moped?

 

[Rapid_Roy]

All airheads eat diode boards and rotors. Kbikes eat their input splines and final drive splines. Oilheads, particularly GSs, eat their final drives.

OMG, as my daughter texts, now I'm afraid to ride any of my bikes. I think I'll trade them on a Vespa. Vespas have any known defects?

Chicks dig a guy on a Vespa!

 

[knary]

Good your not buying because I'm not selling. And from everything I read, Honda Kawasaki, HDs MotoGuzzi, all have things that break..

So what are you going to buy that never has a mechanical failure?

May I suggest a moped?

Is it possible that there's a design flaw that should be addressed?

 

[redclfco]

the sky she is falling? yes? No? Maybe?

Is it possible that there's a design flaw that should be addressed?

Schwinn, maybe..

 

[knary]

Schwinn, maybe..

The sky isn't falling. BMW's engineers are human just like the rest of us. BUT that doesn't excuse design flaws.

 

[testinglogin]

Once BMW sorts out the final drive issues, maybe they can focus on the whining that keeps coming from the drivers seat. Might be impossible to fix, however. Maybe they'll just switch to a louder exhaust?

 

[HODAG]

Is it possible that there's a design flaw that should be addressed?

just because there is a failure does not mean its a "design" flaw maybe its a mechanical issue, if I was a bearing I wouldn't be very happy in that application. grab a bearing catalog and check out bearing life section, high infant mortality rates.

I wonder what the #'s look like for failures?

 

[BUBBAZANETTI]

I think, today, we expect car like reliability from bikes, which has never, ever been the case for BMW.

Nail - Head

this is the #1 reason i own a bmw, they're styling isn't the best, nor is their performance or bang for the buck, but i like em' cause they go forever. i tend to develop attachments to certain machines and am not the type to "trade up" every two years. when i got my S i said "100,000 miles or bust". i'm nearing the half way point, but i don't think i'll hold on for another 3 years.

simple fact is, motorcycles must mechanically do more, with smaller/weaker parts

car reliablity will never happen with that equation

 

[DMR]

jinxed

I must be jinxed. It seems my whole life has been one stupid purchase after another.

I owned a pickup truck when studies showed that a side impact would cause the gas tank to explode. I must not have been struck hard enough.

I owned a CJ5 when everyone kept saying how they all rolled over. I must not have driven fast enough.

I owned a HD twin cam and was told "a lot" of them had cam bearing failures. After 40,000 miles, I couldn't get mine to give up.

Now I have an 05 r12rt and am reading how my final drive will fail because 3 bikes on the IB07 have had failures.

Then again, maybe I'm simply ignoring the facts.

 

[BOKRIJDER]

This FD issue has been quite well documented over a good period of time. I find it odd that some attribute the chorous to the fact that forums allow weak points to be discussed and somehow projected to the forefront. Without an unbiased discussion, manufactures could brush a poor service history under the table, rationalize that paying individual warranty claims is cheaper than fixing a situation. One can claim, we stand by our product!!! Could it be that has been BMW's game plan up to this point.

The forum (throughout the web) discussion exists because FDs fail at a higher rate than one would expect. Why do we hear no constant clamoring about major engine failures ? The engine service history lives up to customer's expectations!

I love my BMWs, but have a hard time understanding how people can spend $20K and then rationalize how one should not be surprised if a major drive component has a premature failure. No rant here, just a thought.

I'm sure that BMW engineers know exactly what is happening to the the new FDs. Of course, they must recognize customer abuse in using improper lubricants, or experimenting with unknown potions or shops doing substandard repair work on in service units.
I would assume that engineering and beancounting see the issue from different angles.

Motard

 

[beemerdons]

Excellent responses from KBasa, sachiwilson, Knary, GSTom, rinty, dlearl476 & others!

Hello Red,

Everyone that has responded to this thread has had some really great insights into this current problem and I know that we are all hoping that BMW will soon be coming up with a permanent fix. KBasa had the most articulate response regarding the various ills of BMW's through the years: Here is my personal record:

1) 1966 BMW R60/2, purchased while stationed in Augsburg, Germany; US Army 5/32nd Battalion. Once I got my bike back home the spark plug holes were tapped and Heli-coiled; problem never returned.

2) 1974 R90S: When the Dell Orto Italian carburetors would go out of synch and adjustment I would limp my R90S from my hometown of Morro Bay, California on Highway 101 up to San Jose BMW and they would have it running like a top again!

3) 1978 R100: Never left the driveway without spare diode board and rotor!

4) 1984 R80: Irv Seaver BMW rebuilt the cylinder heads and the valve recession problem never occurred again.

Now, up to this point in time all of these BMW repairs were simple in nature, very easily fixed and did not cost me a whole lot of money. Nor did they ever pose an unsafe condition where I could have been pitched from my bike and killed!

5) 1996 BMW R1100GS "Mi Mexico Mule": Clutch failure at 39,000 miles returning from Redmond BMWMOA Rally; cost of Ryder truck rental in Klamath Falls to Iron Horse BMW in Tucson and for repair: $1,800. Clutch failed pulling the last grade on Highway 97 into K-Falls. No safety risk to me, just rolling backward uphill with the bike in gear, clutch out and the motor running. At 45,000 miles the final drive failed in Mexico and a kind/helpful elderly American couple transported me and the bike back to Phoenix in their RV. I paid their gas and all their meals and bike was fixed at Victory BMW: $2,200. The personal safety risk to me was very high on this one, as I was riding at high speed from Guanajuato to San Miguel de Allende; I thought I had flattened a tire until inspection showed the wonky final drive.

6) 2005 BMW R1150RT: My beautiful Ingrid gets 10,000 miles a year per on her (as do the other bikes in my garage) and she has been the most well behaved hausfrau that you could ask for. But as I go down the road I find myself wondering if she is going to throw me on mi cabeza like the GS almost did!

I have never owned a Vespa or a K-bike, but I really would like to own each of them before they plant me (age 59)! But this new set of drivetrain problems on the Oilheads and Hexheads are now very costly and they are potentially deadly.

I am really sincerely and earnestly hoping that BMWAG will come up with a fix, y muy pronto! I do wish that we could send Paul Glaves or Matt Parkhouse to the BMW Factory and let them investigate the solution to this problem alongside of the BMW Engineering Team. I would contribute to this effort!

Regards, Don

 

[knary]

just because there is a failure does not mean its a "design" flaw maybe its a mechanical issue, if I was a bearing I wouldn't be very happy in that application. grab a bearing catalog and check out bearing life section, high infant mortality rates.

I wonder what the #'s look like for failures?

Very true.
My point is that to write it off as just some bitching about inevitable misses the obvious, that design and manufacturing aren't static. If there's a problem, whether it be design, QC, whatever, it can and should be addressed.