The dreaded "what battery would be best" question.

[bobbymacd]

Update with Apologies to Westco!

I am not an expert so can't add much to this debate except that the Westco 12V20P should have lasted longer than 9 months of use over 16 calendar months in an attached garage while attached to a Battery tender Jr during the winter. My final ride was in November 2015 and my on-board voltmeter -- which was attached directly to the terminals was still registering "green" -- at that time. After coming off the charger last weekend, it powered two starting attempts and then died. The warranty was one year so I'm out of luck.

Based on the reviews here and elsewhere I will try the Odyssey. My bike is a 2004 R11050RT with 30k miles.

Thanks to all for the input and comments.

So I ordered the Odyssey and just before I was going to take the Westco to the dump, I checked the voltage. 12.6V! Turns out that it was a bad terminal connection that made the battery "play dead." The evidence was strong for a dead battery -- ignition light would go on but drew enought power that the LED clock would go dead; clicking noise when turned to the on position; Battery Tender Jr wouldn't get a green light; all these problems solved when I reinstalled the Westco without the positive terminal extension bracket. (What is that for, anyway?)

So now I have a brand new Odyssey to sell - any suggestions as to where to list it? I paid $110 plus $6 for male terminal plugs -- asking $90 with free shipping.

$20 seems a fair price for my ignorance!

 

[BC1100S]

So now I have a brand new Odyssey to sell - any suggestions as to where to list it? I paid $110 plus $6 for male terminal plugs -- asking $90 with free shipping.

$20 seems a fair price for my ignorance!

Anyone know if this battery will fit my Mighty R1100S with servo brakes/ABS?

 

[globalrider]

Everybody says this brand X battery is great, yet I don't see anyone posting they got 8 or 10 years of useful life out of each of them.

Three batteries...then that was 30 years ago when you bought the first one....right?

 

[globalrider]

Just to keep the terminology clear, AGM IS lead-acid. It's merely one of the variations of captive (rather than loose, aka flooded) electrolyte.

And its amazing how many consumers "think" these are sealed batteries.

And AGM and GEL batteries are from the VRLA group...Valve Regulated Lead Acid.

 

[globalrider]

The AGM batteries need about 0.8 volt higher charging voltage than the stock flooded lead acid.

15.2 V is a bit on the high side. And the worst thing you can do to any VRLA battery is overcharge it.

Plus charge end voltage is temperature dependent and since almost all battery chargers do not temperature compensate and if they do, poorly, the last place I'd want to use a VRLA battery is in very hot climates where they are very likely to be overcharged.

Its probably why oilhead charging systems are on the low side...to play it safe. Plus the factory GEL is on the low end anyways.

The best bling anyone can install is an on-board voltmeter wired directly to the battery.

 

[alancoles]

I seem to recall Alex, that you did a really nice Voltmeter install on your 1150-GS some time ago. It was a very clean setup.

 

[globalrider]

I seem to recall Alex, that you did a really nice Voltmeter install on your 1150-GS some time ago. It was a very clean setup.

And on my second one, I solved the waterproofing issue with a clear piece of 3M Paint Protection Film on the bezel (not shown on 1st generation meter below, but just as clear).

The meter has to be LCD in order to connect it permanently (un-switched) to the battery which is the way it should be connected. I have one in my Porsche 993 as well and a ScanGauge II in the VW Jetta TDI. Other than important engine gauges, I consider a voltmeter very informative.

Indicated voltage shows Optimate III connected and in "float mode".

 

[gsaddict]

Indicated voltage shows Optimate III connected and in "float mode".

I hope that is not monitoring a AGM battery

 

[gsaddict]

15.2 V is a bit on the high side. And the worst thing you can do to any VRLA battery is overcharge it.

Plus charge end voltage is temperature dependent and since almost all battery chargers do not temperature compensate and if they do, poorly, the last place I'd want to use a VRLA battery is in very hot climates where they are very likely to be overcharged.

Its probably why oilhead charging systems are on the low side...to play it safe. Plus the factory GEL is on the low end anyways.

The best bling anyone can install is an on-board voltmeter wired directly to the battery.

Agreed on the 15.2v - Odyssey's recommendation is 14.8v
and +1 on the voltmeter

The low voltage from the oilhead regulators is because they were originally designed for flooded cell batteries.
AGM's came later added by the owners themselves.
BMW's update was a gel cell.

It should also be noted that the Oilhead alternators (regulators) are temperature compensated.

 

[globalrider]

I hope that is not monitoring an AGM battery

I would not have an AGM battery in my motorcycles or cars.

I purposely installed a FLA battery in my last two cars. Why switch when I get 15-plus years out of a normal battery at half the price. That means my AGM would have to last 30 years.

Actually that float voltage is in line for an AGM at standard temperature 77F.
Source: East Penn Technical Manual

Here is one for a GEL cell.

And in the end, I'd sooner slightly undercharge than slightly overcharge a VRLA battery.

 

[globalrider]

The low voltage from the oilhead regulators is because they were originally designed for flooded cell batteries.
AGM's came later added by the owners themselves.
BMW's update was a gel cell.

Both my 2003 and 2004 GS Adventures came with a GEL cell, therefore the lower monitored charging voltage of 13.8V to 14.2V, depending on temperature.

It should also be noted that the Oilhead alternators (regulators) are temperature compensated.

Just about all VRs are. I have a Bosch VR sheet I can send you listing slip ring diameters, -mV/C (temperature compensation slope), end voltage. Quite handy!

Ideally the temperature probe should be on the battery post, not some distance away as they are on the alternator.
The Xantrex TrueCharge 2 has that feature.

 

[gsaddict]

Both my 2003 and 2004 GS Adventures came with a GEL cell, therefore the lower monitored charging voltage of 13.8V to 14.2V, depending on temperature.




Just about all VRs are. I have a Bosch VR sheet I can send you listing slip ring diameters, -mV/C (temperature compensation slope), end voltage. Quite handy!

Ideally the temperature probe should be on the battery post, not some distance away as they are on the alternator.
The Xantrex TrueCharge 2 has that feature.

Years ago I did a mod. to the regulator on my oilhead to boost to 14.7 for the Odyssey. Works very well.

Yes, ideally the sensor should be on the battery case.
On the industrial installations I am involved with, it's always done that way.

 

[gsaddict]

Floating Odyssey Batteries at 13.3v

The Odyssey Engineers confirmed that floating their batteries below 13.5v will cause sulfation over the long term.
I can confirm this from my own experience with clients with the wrong chargers.
Clip from email received from them and a PC 680 marking

 

[roger 04 rt]

15.2 V is a bit on the high side. And the worst thing you can do to any VRLA battery is overcharge it.

Plus charge end voltage is temperature dependent and since almost all battery chargers do not temperature compensate and if they do, poorly, the last place I'd want to use a VRLA battery is in very hot climates where they are very likely to be overcharged.

Its probably why oilhead charging systems are on the low side...to play it safe. Plus the factory GEL is on the low end anyways.

The best bling anyone can install is an on-board voltmeter wired directly to the battery.

So we're having the same conversation as the last battery thread? I don't know where you got 15.2 V from anything I wrote. The Odyssey PC 680 calls for a nominal charging (and float) voltage that is about 0.8 V higher than the voltage regulator on an Oilhead. That would put the charging voltage at about 14.8 V nominally. (However, if the battery temperature is 5 degrees C, like in my cold garage in the winter, Odyssey calls for a charging voltage of 15.4V and a trickle charge voltage of 14.8V.)

I know from experience damaging and then restoring a PC680, that short rides on an Oilhead with a stock alternator/voltage regulator followed by continuous trickle charging at 13.1V (battery tender jr.) will reduce the battery's capacity and lead to poor starting, just as Odyssey says it will.

Telling this forum that undercharging an Odyssey battery is better than risking an overcharge confuses the issue. The best thing one can do with the Odyssey PC680 is to keep it fully charged. Since the stock regulator is 0.8V low (about at the Odyssey trickle/float charge level) you need long rides and/or a proper AGM charger to return the battery to a full charge.

 

[globalrider]

I don't know where you got 15.2 V from anything I wrote.

Simple...14.4V + 0.8V = 15.2V.

14.4V comes from the standard charge end voltage of a FLA battery.

All my alternators I have limit at 14.4V give or take a few 0.01V ... actually measured. Maybe that is why I get 15-plus years out of my car batteries.

I already stated charge voltage is temperature dependent. Nothing new.

Hey, I am the one getting super long battery life out of my batteries compared to the mere mortal. Must be doing something right.

 

[globalrider]

The Odyssey Engineers confirmed that floating their batteries below 13.5v will cause sulfation over the long term.
I can confirm this from my own experience with clients with the wrong chargers.
Clip from email received from them and a PC 680 marking

Strange that they say anything over 14.1V will deplete battery life when they also say it should be charged to 14.8V.

Anyway, you could not sell me one of those cheap enough. There is a reason why Costco stopped selling them up here.

 

[globalrider]

The Odyssey Engineers confirmed that floating their batteries below 13.5v will cause sulfation over the long term.

Yet what is the rest voltage of the battery while in storage? More than 13.5V? If not, then the battery sulfates just sitting fully charged.

Hmmmm!

 

[gsaddict]

Strange that they say anything over 14.1V will deplete battery life when they also say it should be charged to 14.8V.

Anyway, you could not sell me one of those cheap enough. There is a reason why Costco stopped selling them up here.

Recharge and float are two different functions.

Your opinion on AGMs has been made abundantly clear on every thread you have participated in here as is your view on Japanese products.

The reason Costco stopped carrying them up here may be as simple as pricing. Their purchasing/procurement policies are tough, I was once involved with a proposal to them

 

[globalrider]

Recharge and float are two different functions.

I realize that, but in the end, current is being supplied to the battery.
And worse yet, the fancier the charge requirements of a battery, the greater the chance of it not surviving a long life considering most chargers and vehicle charging system. AGMs don't like ripple for long life, yet what comes out of any alternator?

Your opinion on AGMs has been made abundantly clear on every thread you have participated in as is your view on Japanese products.

I've seen far too many lead a short life considering they are touted for providing a long life. Not the fault of the battery, but in the end it is what it is.

As for your other comment, I wish I could buy a "Japanese" Panasonic car battery like the ones that came fitted in our last two "Japanese" cars...15 and 18 year battery life...now why would I buy an AGM or what added benefit would I have realized? People are always looking for a solution to a problem that lies elsewhere.

Battery graveyard...someone is one hell of a salesman...

 

[roger 04 rt]

Simple...14.4V + 0.8V = 15.2V.

14.4V comes from the standard charge end voltage of a FLA battery.

All my alternators I have limit at 14.4V give or take a few 0.01V ... actually measured. Maybe that is why I get 15-plus years out of my car batteries.

I already stated charge voltage is temperature dependent. Nothing new.

Hey, I am the one getting super long battery life out of my batteries compared to the mere mortal. Must be doing something right.

Noted: Global Rider doesn't like the Odyssey PC 680 battery. And I've got no issue with that view. But many riders seem to want them.

So with that said, the VR on my Oilhead is nominally at 14V. Usually though, with temperature compensation for its hot environment, it runs at 13.7/8 as do the many dozens of Oilheads for which I've got GS-911 data. So the 0.8V I referred to (nominally) means 14.8V, which is (nominally) what the PC680 wants to see.

Therefore, although it's a lot of work, raising the alternator voltage 0.7V with a diode as GS Addict, myself and others have done, get the charging voltage just right.