Should I be paying for a brake bleed six weeks after buying a new BMW?

[henksijgers]

When someone has trouble with their BMW it’s common to see those troubles posted here so they can get some help. It’s also common to see some of the good people who belong to MOA respond and help in any way they can. But when the problem stems from the more than questionable practices of a BMW dealership, I don’t understand why that person choses to protect the dealership by withholding the dealership’s name when the consequence might well be to cause the same harm to an unsuspecting MOA member to took their bike to that dealership.

E.

Hi, I was giving the customer service process time to play out before naming the dealership. Now BMW Customer Relations has made it clear they will only support the dealerships' service department and will not protect customers from practices like this.

 

[easy]

Hi, I was giving the customer service process time to play out before naming the dealership. Now BMW Customer Relations has made it clear they will only support the dealerships' service department and will not protect customers from practices like this.

Thanks for the information.

E.

 

[pglaves]

Did you talk to Bob?

 

[nickrides]

If I were in the original posters shoes and got charged 150 bucks for this minor fix I'd be pissed too.
The Dealer should have fixed it and given him a free hat or something IMHO.
Nick

 

[henksijgers]

ETA: After a cool-down period I returned to the dealership and talked to my salesman, who quickly engaged the GM to resolve my issue.

Did you talk to Bob?

I haven't met Bob: he wasn't there when I purchased the bike. I've been advised by local riders that if a matter reaches Bob's desk that it may be an unpleasant experience for the customer, but that his general manager may be able to help me. Since I'd opened a case with BMW Customer Relations asking whether it's BMW's position that customers be charged for annual maintenance six weeks into ownership of a new motorcycle I've been waiting for the case to resolve before trying (if necessary) other options. Yesterday afternoon BMW Customer Relations and I finally had a direct conversation in which they made it clear they won't get involved in any dispute related to a service department recommendation, so now I may (or may not) follow up directly with the dealership management.

I'm considering a discussion with my salesman and seeing where that goes. But right now I'm so irritated with Bob's BMW and BMW Customer Relations I feel like I should give myself time to cool down and then possibly have a productive interaction with them.

 

[rick601]

I'm considering a discussion with my salesman and seeing where that goes. But right now I'm so irritated with Bob's BMW and BMW Customer Relations I feel like I should give myself time to cool down and then possibly have a productive interaction with them.

WOW..gentlemen, there's an adult in the room! I rarely regret NOT saying something-especially when I'm hot.. Kudos to cool heads.

 

[Wkoppa]

WOW..gentlemen, there's an adult in the room! I rarely regret NOT saying something-especially when I'm hot.. Kudos to cool heads.

This whole thing seems to be lacking in the simplest of terms. How many riders or drivers experiencing "mushy brakes" in the first 1,500 miles would not expect that to be remedied under warranty? BMW NA calling this a service issue, where they don't get involved, seems to be convenient so they don't have to call it a warranty issue, where they would need to, possibly, get involved. If the operator had an accident because of "mushy brakes" would those that evaluate such situations have stepped forward and said it was the purchasers responsibility to have the vehicle serviced in the first 1,500 miles?? I think not. It is tough to be a motorcycle dealer these days in my estimation. Mistakes are made. I can see a service department all jammed up trying to make everyone happy. I know when that happens at the places I frequent they will in most cases try to make it right. Perhaps some other customers of the same dealership would reach out to the powers to be to relook at the situation. BMW customer relations should be doing that instead of sidestepping the situation.


Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449

 

[Omega Man]

Could always file a complaint with the NHTSA- bike delivered with “mushy” brakes. Can’t picture there was just one
OM

 

[henksijgers]

ETA: the dealership resolved my first point. I remain disappointed in BMW Customer Relations and believe the dealership should be disappointed in them as well.

This whole thing seems to be lacking in the simplest of terms. How many riders or drivers experiencing "mushy brakes" in the first 1,500 miles would not expect that to be remedied under warranty? BMW NA calling this a service issue, where they don't get involved, seems to be convenient so they don't have to call it a warranty issue, where they would need to, possibly, get involved. If the operator had an accident because of "mushy brakes" would those that evaluate such situations have stepped forward and said it was the purchasers responsibility to have the vehicle serviced in the first 1,500 miles?? I think not. It is tough to be a motorcycle dealer these days in my estimation. Mistakes are made. I can see a service department all jammed up trying to make everyone happy. I know when that happens at the places I frequent they will in most cases try to make it right. Perhaps some other customers of the same dealership would reach out to the powers to be to relook at the situation. BMW customer relations should be doing that instead of sidestepping the situation.


Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449

I certainly expected this to be remedied as a warranty or goodwill item!

First I was disappointed that the service writer chose to leverage the situation for revenue. What was I supposed to do: continue to ride with mushy brakes once it was clear that was the case? Of course not: I paid so that I could trust my brakes. Why in the world did he take the position that this was something I should pay for so early in the ownership cycle. At this point I lost faith in the dealership. Nevertheless I made a point of discussing this with other local BMW riders in order to check my expectations; all of them felt the dealership should've addressed the brakes without charge.

Second I was disappointed (outraged actually) with the position BMW Customer Relations took. As you point out: they dodged the situation with a position that absolved them of any responsibility for setting things right and left me utterly flabbergasted. At that point, I lost faith in the BMW brand.

Part of why I hesitate to discuss this any further with Bob's BMW is that I don't think I should be coming back a third time to ask that they place the customer first: that should be their priority, and if it isn't, why should I want to do any business with them?

I really enjoy the motorcycle, but I'll definitely go out of my way not to ever hand any more of my money over to the dealership, and any future motorcycle purchases will be influenced by a very negative impression of the brand's (non) dedication to its customers. What faith can I have that BMW will do right by me in a warranty situation at this point, when all the dealership has to do is claim the problem is maintenance-related?

It's really sad, because up until less than two weeks ago I was very excited about the bike, dealership, and brand.

 

[BC1100S]

After 15 posts on the subject by the OP, I would suggest sucking it up and moving on.

 

[ponch1]

It's situations like these that lead me to question repeat ownership. I remember there was a guy here that had a hex head with a leaking rear seal issue and BMW fixed it once on their dime, then another on his and then admitted it was a faulty block. I think they were going to buy the bike back or give him some sort of credit towards a new one and when he and other here complained they cut it in half or a third. The schizophrenia or corporate never ceases to amaze me. I remember Don Eilenberger had an axiom about stuff like this and it might have been over the fuel pump flange issue:

"I'm betting BMW's solution will be some sort of clamp on ring, with a special tool to install it (probably an Oetker type design) allowing the dealer 30 minutes labor time to do the job (regardless of bike model..)

And I'm sure based on BMW's usual reactions to these sort of things:

1. What problem?
2. Oh, that problem. First we've heard of it.
3. You caused it
4. Your environment caused it (fuel properties usually)
5. We have no problem
Is at step #4 now... so I'm certain they've never heard of the problem in Europe.. (said with tongue firmly in cheek..) It's caused by bad US karma."

Plus ça change, plus c'e la même chose.

The only thing I can say is, I'd flush the brakes myself.

 

[rick601]

I'm in a cycle of love/hate (well...satisfaction/dissatisfaction) with Maxx. I'm glad I didn't go complete "never again" but I'm not at "they're the best. The service writer is often the face of the entire dealership. New one seems to "get it" and I'm glad I stuck around! OTOH I notice that my audio panel buttons don't seem to work after a 24K service...so best service writer won't make up for spotty work. conversely, a great mechanic has nothing to do with how the dealer takes care of customer concerns. You may have hit the daily double- the mechanic missed the brake issue pre-sale and service writer/corporate is blaming you for their shortcoming mechanically. It's a dance- and when your partner AND the music don't work for you- it's time to leave the dance floor.

 

[ponch1]

I'm in a cycle of love/hate (well...satisfaction/dissatisfaction) with Maxx. I'm glad I didn't go complete "never again" but I'm not at "they're the best. The service writer is often the face of the entire dealership. New one seems to "get it" and I'm glad I stuck around! OTOH I notice that my audio panel buttons don't seem to work after a 24K service...so best service writer won't make up for spotty work. conversely, a great mechanic has nothing to do with how the dealer takes care of customer concerns. You may have hit the daily double- the mechanic missed the brake issue pre-sale and service writer/corporate is blaming you for their shortcoming mechanically. It's a dance- and when your partner AND the music don't work for you- it's time to leave the dance floor.

The problem is flat rate. They have to be fast to make time and in the process don't always get the assembly right. I had that happen at GOAZ. The fuel line were in the steering head area instead of routing correctly. I fixed it myself. The last time they chipped the paint on my fender. Both were recalls. They owned up on that and repainted it. I am not mad at them, it's the industry. Pharaoh wants what pharaoh wants. It's like the old commercial, make it Progresso. or make it yourself. Unless it's tires or recalls/warranty, I do it myself. If anything soured me it's the broken throttle body pulleys. Seems a lot more folks have caught up on that one. I was an early adopter. BMW should have covered that one.

 

[powwow]

After 15 posts on the subject by the OP, I would suggest sucking it up and moving on.

Yeah, for $147 bucks that's sorta my take as well, although it sucks to feel you've been taken advantage of. I'm sure from the dealership's perspective, the technician rode the bike 17 miles when new and didn't report any issue with the brakes. The OP brings the bike in at 1500 miles and says the brakes aren't working properly (and based on the date of manufacture, the bike is a year old). While the OP is in the right and at the least the dealership should offer to split the cost, at this point for me it wouldn't be worth the aggravation and I would just move on and enjoy my new ride.

While going to a dealer who is further away can be a hassle, on the other hand you get to ride your new BMW there!

 

[98lee]

Warranties cover faulty materials and workmanship.

Spongy brakes are caused by faulty materials or faulty workmanship, end of story!




Cost to the OP: $147

Money gained by Bob's BMW: $147

Cost to Bob's reputation in bad PR: $?000s

I don't think Bob's will come out ahead in this deal.

You really should give Bob (the owner) (not the service writer or the manager) one last chance to make this right. It will cost him way more than $147 if he doesn't. He may not even be aware of the issue.

Even though I live on the opposite coast, I have bought a few parts from them. But this incident will be on my mind next time I need to order something that I can't get locally. There are a lot of other dealers out there online.

Let us know what Bob says.


This thread will be up here for a looong time.

 

[Omega Man]

After 15 posts on the subject by the OP, I would suggest sucking it up and moving on.

Yeah, for $147 bucks that's sorta my take as well, although it sucks to feel you've been taken advantage of. I'm sure from the dealership's perspective, the technician rode the bike 17 miles when new and didn't report any issue with the brakes. The OP brings the bike in at 1500 miles and says the brakes aren't working properly (and based on the date of manufacture, the bike is a year old). While the OP is in the right and at the least the dealership should offer to split the cost, at this point for me it wouldn't be worth the aggravation and I would just move on and enjoy my new ride.

Yeah, just move on.......after you are reimbursed for delivery, setup and PDI- (pre delivery inspection).

Warranties cover faulty materials and workmanship.

Spongy brakes are caused by faulty materials or faulty workmanship, end of story!




Cost to the OP: $147

Money gained by Bob's BMW: $147

Cost to Bob's reputation in bad PR: $?000s

I don't think Bob's will come out ahead in this deal.

You really should give Bob (the owner) (not the service writer or the manager) one last chance to make this right. It will cost him way more than $147 if he doesn't. He may not even be aware of the issue.

Be interesting if a warranty repair was generated on this bikes condition?........Along with the customer paying to have an issue that should have been caught in PDI?

It ain't easy.

OM

 

[taran1900]

"I haven't met Bob: he wasn't there when I purchased the bike. I've been advised by local riders that if a matter reaches Bob's desk that it may be an unpleasant experience for the customer"

Wow. Just wow. Were that to happen to me the owner would have a very unpleasant experience as I would have documented by video the exact behavior of the brake being pulled all the way to the handle grip, or pinky. That is a serious safety issue. You (Bob's) and BMW won't cover it? Let me file a vehicle safety complaint with the NHTSA and you can talk to them. I'd also file a consumer protect complaint.

I've spoken to Bob many times at Rallies. He seems nice enough, but seems more aloof now than when I first met him way back when. The first time was before he even owned a dealership. Back in those days he was "Bob's Used Parts" which saved a lot of us a lot of money on parts. Since then, based on what I've read on forums, he and his dealership have become quite arrogant.

Since it was only $148 and the brakes are right, the best thing is to let folks know about your experience like has been done here so people can better make an informed decision on which dealer to do business with.

At least the brake service was done correctly and your bike is good to go.

 

[henksijgers]

It's situations like these that lead me to question repeat ownership. I remember there was a guy here that had a hex head with a leaking rear seal issue and BMW fixed it once on their dime, then another on his and then admitted it was a faulty block. I think they were going to buy the bike back or give him some sort of credit towards a new one and when he and other here complained they cut it in half or a third. The schizophrenia or corporate never ceases to amaze me. I remember Don Eilenberger had an axiom about stuff like this and it might have been over the fuel pump flange issue:

"I'm betting BMW's solution will be some sort of clamp on ring, with a special tool to install it (probably an Oetker type design) allowing the dealer 30 minutes labor time to do the job (regardless of bike model..)

And I'm sure based on BMW's usual reactions to these sort of things:

1. What problem?
2. Oh, that problem. First we've heard of it.
3. You caused it
4. Your environment caused it (fuel properties usually)
5. We have no problem
Is at step #4 now... so I'm certain they've never heard of the problem in Europe.. (said with tongue firmly in cheek..) It's caused by bad US karma."

Plus ça change, plus c'e la même chose.

The only thing I can say is, I'd flush the brakes myself.

Pre-ABS I'd probably just done that myself first and only gone to the dealership if the brakes remained soft. Although I do like to let the dealership handle maintenance while a bike's under warranty, just so there's no confusion over where fault lies.

This is only my second bike with ABS, and the first one (Indian Scout 60) had not one, not two, but three NHTSA recalls on the ABS because of air getting into the braking system.

 

[henksijgers]

Yeah, for $147 bucks that's sorta my take as well, although it sucks to feel you've been taken advantage of. I'm sure from the dealership's perspective, the technician rode the bike 17 miles when new and didn't report any issue with the brakes. The OP brings the bike in at 1500 miles and says the brakes aren't working properly (and based on the date of manufacture, the bike is a year old). While the OP is in the right and at the least the dealership should offer to split the cost, at this point for me it wouldn't be worth the aggravation and I would just move on and enjoy my new ride.

While going to a dealer who is further away can be a hassle, on the other hand you get to ride your new BMW there!

That's kinda where I'm at on this. And compared to how far I had to ride a Buell I owned to get service (the local HD dealership hated the brand and refused to work on them, despite having sold them for a few years) the ride to the next nearest BMW dealership really isn't a burden.

 

[henksijgers]

ETA: the service writer was forthright and admitted to his GM that he could've handled my case better. I'm satisfied with the apology and refund I received.

Yeah, just move on.......after you are reimbursed for delivery, setup and PDI- (pre delivery inspection).



Be interesting if a warranty repair was generated on this bikes condition?........Along with the customer paying to have an issue that should have been caught in PDI?

It ain't easy.

OM

I asked the service writer twice to handle this as a warranty case because I didn't feel I should pay given the circumstances. I doubt he did, but if so I imagine it might lead to an awkward case discussion between the dealership and BMW Customer Relations