Sena 20S

[globalrider]

Did you turn audio boost on?

Download the app and go through the basic settings with the app. It's really easy to change the settings with the app. And the app shows if the firmware is up-to-date or not.

Yes, and I have done everything under the sun that Sena asked me to try. Firmware update, etc. And I use the app to change settings, set radio stations, etc.

The speakers are in the speaker pockets on my Shoei Neotech and I checked to see how they line up with my ears. Spot on! I mean the next step is gluing the 20S speakers that came with the 10R (one of the reasons for buying this unit, plus the external battery and slim design) to my ears.

Without the earplugs; it's loud as heck.

No problem hearing at 80+ mph.

Maybe your 20S is, but not my 10R which I decided upon.

I use the yellow foam EAR plugs but I have tried other expensive types as well. I am not about to go without ear plugs and go deaf over time.

My Sena 10R sounds loud sitting at home, except that is not where I use it. If I turned the volume down two steps from maximum, I would not hear anything at 70 mph. Bike: 2016 R1200 GSA LC with the adjustable windscreen, not that what I ride should make a difference.

Frustrated at this point because I bought it to listen to my MP3s, the radio and BMW Navigator V. The bike to bike communications was a bonus in case I ever needed that aspect. I had a Sena ticket open but nothing got resolved...had to go overseas and get a family member into an aged care facility at the end of the riding season. I just reopened another Sena ticket. Best that they take it back and if I try another communicator, I want a demo, before I buy.

 

[globalrider]

I'm the CEO of a decent sized company and in the top 1% of all Americans from an income and net worth standpoint.

You should run for president so that you can be totally out of touch with the masses. Well that should explain a lot. I am not in that position and I spend my little bit of money wisely. Being frugal is how I paid cash for my R1200 GSA LC. So when something does not perform, I have very little use for the product. It is also why I have very little use for evaluations that simply carbon copy what is on the box or PDF owners manual.

Now, do you have ANYTHING of value to add to my issue with the 10R. Unless of course you wish to be a lemming and praise all products out there. If there is a solution, please provide it.

BTW, nothing wrong with my hearing. As a flight instructor for many years, I know something about protecting my hearing...also why I use ear plugs while motorcycling.

 

[globalrider]

Don't know if this would help, but here's a pretty interesting video about upgrading the Sena speakers:

A genuine thanks for that. I am willing to try anything to make this work.

Someone who tells it as it is "they come with these exceptionally crappy speakers". That or the output of the 10R is insufficient. Checking ebay for a set of those headphones.

I just placed an order for them. Looking at the specs, 40 mm diameter, 32 ohms and best of all 102 dB/mW which is 4 dB more than other headphones I also looked at, I am hoping they do the trick.

 

[marcopolo]

This thread is laughable. To come here and essentially piss on everyone, and then ask for help is pretty rich. Can't believe anybody offered suggestions. I have experience with two different models of Sena headsets, but I wouldn't waste any more time than I already have. You might attract more bees with honey, than with vinegar, but that would be out of character for you.

 

[globalrider]

This thread is laughable.

Like so many on here, especially the technical ones.

 

[jeffkruger]

This thread is laughable. To come here and essentially piss on everyone, and then ask for help is pretty rich. Can't believe anybody offered suggestions. I have experience with two different models of Sena headsets, but I wouldn't waste any more time than I already have. You might attract more bees with honey, than with vinegar, but that would be out of character for you.

I guess he is the one laughing marcopolo. Laughing at the fact that anyone other than he would dare offer an opinion on something because they are obviously so much less qualified and subjective than he is. I've met jackasses like that before. Best to just ignore them or shine them on. I've been satisfied with my Sena. There is room for improvement, but I think it was a good value and performs adequately. I know quite a few riders that have either the older Sena or 20S and they are mostly pretty satisfied. Apparently, with some folks, if you've had a different experience or have a differing opinion, you're just looking at it through rose colored glasses. There isn't any other possibility is there?

Laughing. Have a great weekend.

 

[hojoinsc]

I'm considering a Sena 20S.

I just got a reply back from the Sena Support Team stating the battery is not replaceable.

So I take it if battery capacity after numerous charges drops by enough that talk time is way down, I am just supposed to throw away an expensive item?

Our throw-away society is not my style. Has anyone opened one up yet?

Whaattttt, I thought someone once sent their unit to SENA and they replaced the battery.

 

[daboo]

As a Sena 10C owner with a Shoei Neotec helmet, I wonder about why your experience is so much different than mine.

I wear 33db earplugs...and still don't have to turn up the volume all the way to clearly hear the Sena. You might want to look at the settings. Sena models have a volume boost. Mine was enabled from the factory, but your 20S may have it turned off.

In about 18 months of ownership, my Sena has worked flawlessly.

Chris

 

[jeffkruger]

As a Sena 10C owner with a Shoei Neotec helmet, I wonder about why your experience is so much different than mine.

I wear 33db earplugs...and still don't have to turn up the volume all the way to clearly hear the Sena. You might want to look at the settings. Sena models have a volume boost. Mine was enabled from the factory, but your 20S may have it turned off.

In about 18 months of ownership, my Sena has worked flawlessly.

Chris

You probably haven't been following along daboo. It is obvious you must be looking at your Sena 10C through rose colored glasses and don't really know what you are talking about, or what type of experience you have had. Only globalrider can give an accurate, subjective review, and only his experiences matter, because unlike us mere mortals he doesn't look through rose colored glasses and is all knowing. It's like the one scene in Star Wars, globalrider has waved his hand and said "that isn't your Sena 10C experience", so it is so. I thought I was happy with my 20S as well until I saw the light and realized how wrong I must have been. It's obvious that you haven't really been able to hear anything with your 10C.

 

[omega man]

Moderator interruption
If you all can't get along the thread disappears.
Personal attacks, trolling to continue the downward slide in a discussion won't be tolerated
The Moderation Team.

 

[alancoles]

... Sena 10R ... I'm not at all impressed with the audio volume which is all the way at its maximum and above 80 kph (50 mph) is next to useless. And this with wearing a Shoei Neotec helmet that is quite enclosed and quiet...

Alex, it is possible that you have a defective unit, but I suspect the actual issue may be an improper placement of the speakers themselves during installation. I have personally witnessed what you are describing, but only due to improper placement well outside the optimal positioning for volume/clarity. A few minutes of adjusting the positioning solved the problem which was virtually identical to what you've described. I've mentioned this before (I think on this Forum) that there is a little bit of work to be done to install any such system properly and all factory advice that I've seen pays virtually no or too little attention to the importance of doing pre-installation testing of the unit and speaker placement.

What was shown to me several years ago, by a recognized expert in "in-helmet" communications, is the following:

• identify that you are getting adequate volume from the unit itself. Pre-installation - pair the unit to a music source and play a specific song that you know. Play back that song holding one speaker over your ear and adjust the volume through it's range. You should find that 50% volume or less is as load or louder than you'd like for conversation levels. If not than you likely have a defective unit.
• set your preferred volume level (for conversations) and spend a few moments getting acclimated to that volume and the sound of the speaker pre-installation in the helmet
• do a test fitting of the speakers positioning in the helmet using your index and middle fingers of the opposite hand (speaker positioned in the helmet but not attached) and moving it in a systematic manner forward/back/up/down to identify the optimum positioning inside the helmet. Do this and the following steps for each side, going all the way through one side and then doing the other.
• again, spend a few moments getting acclimated to that sound in the optimum position for the first speaker
• have someone help you by having them hold the speakers in place with their index finger while you remove the helmet (to ensure there is the least amount of change in speaker position)
• taking note of the actual position, then place the velcro in the appropriate position and attach the speakers. Re-test for placement as you'll now have a audio reference from your previous testing to identify if the optimum positioning has been disturbed

I do have partial hearing loss (having had almost complete loss for a day and a half in the early 70's) and have not had any volume issues with either of my Sena SMH10 units or my SPH10 unit, nor with friends units 20S or otherwise.

Last week I had occasion to be travelling and was going to be renting a bike for two days but didn't have the ability to take any of my helmets with me, so I took the SPH10 and used a half-helmet (the SPH10 is designed to be used with these or without a helmet). Definitely not my desired option or something that I like doing (always run a full-faced helmet - my C3, Aria Vector-II, or Nolan), however, in this instance it was that or not ride as I needed to hear my GPS for where I was going.

So, I'm riding a Harley Electra Glide (not a quite bike), wearing a half-helmet (the nosiest helmet on can wear) and running between 80-100 mph most of the time (far greater wind noise than at 50mph). I had no problems hearing the directions from the Sena SPH10 at approximately 70% volume. I put my Nav-V GPS in my inside breast pocket of my riding jacket and simply navigated only from the audio directions through the Sena with no volume problems whatsoever.

 

[beemerdood]

I purchased my first set of Sena 20s' about a year–and–a–half ago. I got them used, from a member on one of the forums, can't remember which one. It worked very well for quite some time but then the battery would not hold a charge. It would work for an hour or so and then give the "low battery" warning. A few minutes later it would shut off.

I called Sena and they suggested running a few charge–discharge cycles. I did this and it helped a bit, but then the issue returned and could not be fixed with some charge–recharge cycles.

I called them again, and even though, based on the s/n, it was well out of warranty and the fact that I was not even the original buyer, they replaced the set. They even sent me the new one before they had received the old one back, taking my CC number in the event that I didn't send it in. They even sent me a prepaid UPS mailing label so I didn't have to pay for return shipping. The new one arrived even before I had a chance to take the old one to UPS.

I had the same sort of issues that one member had, the volume wasn't loud enough on the first installation. Turns out I had the speakers mounted too high in my helmet. I had based my placement on the recesses that Schuberth had placed in the Styrofoam. Turns out that, compared to others, my ears are significantly lower, something that I wasn't aware of until that moment. I moved the speakers so they were centered over my ears, and now, at times, they are too loud, no matter what speed I'm going. I have never needed to turn them all the way up.

Part of the problem may be that the other member with the problem tells us that he is using the yellow foamie ear protection, and they reduce sound by about 29-33dB. (I'm assuming that the other member is using quality plugs and inserting them properly, although not everyone does the latter). I use NoNoise earplugs that give protection from the wind noise but still allow much other (non-damaging) sound through. I dislike the muffling of all sound that foamie ear plugs bring, so I don't use them.

I did have an issue with the replacement setup, where the 'module' would not stay clipped into the helmet mount. It would 'click' into place but then as soon as pressure was released, it would 'unclick.' Only gravity was holding it in. I used some duct tape to make sure that it stay attached during the next few rides.

I called Sena and they AGAIN sent me a brand new unit with payment and mailing done the same way as before!

I haven't had any issues since. I've made and received several phone calls with it and people on the other end could not tell that I was on a bike. Some were on surface streets and some were at speed on the freeway. Mostly I use it for bike to bike, rider to pillion communication, GPS and music. I'm happy with the unit, as well as the customer service. We have three sets, one in my helmet, one in my wife's helmet and one in my daughter's. My wife rides pillion and my daughter has her own bike. We've been on a couple of rides where all three of us are communicating, and they work just fine. I've also been on a trip of about 1,000 miles with 2-10 other riders (it varied throughout the trip) and it worked perfectly for communicating with the other riders and listening to my GPS and music.

My only issue is that I have to consult the user's guide rather frequently, especially when adding another helmet or trying to do something new, or that I rarely do with them. I can't remember the steps on the menu for these actions, but that's on me. I'd buy them again.

 

[alancoles]

... even though, based on the s/n, it was well out of warranty and the fact that I was not even the original buyer, they replaced the set. They even sent me the new one before they had received the old one back, taking my CC number in the event that I didn't send it in. They even sent me a prepaid UPS mailing label so I didn't have to pay for return shipping. The new one arrived even before I had a chance to take the old one to UPS...

That's what I call customer service! No one produces 100% of their products perfectly every time, and what these units do and the environment they operate in is very demanding, only a very few companies are in this field not just because it isn't a huge market, but also because it isn't easy to get it right.

Sena has shown that they have been able to do that at least as well and I'd venture better than any of their competition. The fact that they stand behind there products and support their customers so wellis comforting to know. Thanks for sharing.

That doesn't mean they're perfect or that they'll treat everyone so well (especially if they start off by telling them their gear is a piece of crap), but it does show that they try to go the distance.

...I had the same sort of issues that one member had, the volume wasn't loud enough on the first installation. Turns out I had the speakers mounted too high in my helmet. I had based my placement on the recesses that Schuberth had placed in the Styrofoam. Turns out that, compared to others, my ears are significantly lower, something that I wasn't aware of until that moment. I moved the speakers so they were centered over my ears, and now, at times, they are too loud, no matter what speed I'm going. I have never needed to turn them all the way up...

This is also why it is very important to test the unit before installing (directly against your ear) so that your initial experience is what volume level the unit is actually capable of, and then do an install.

It is almost fortunate that the placement was so far off that you didn't get anywhere near acceptable volume levels. Others have had the same issue to lesser degrees and simply trashed the units because they weren't getting what they should have and didn't realize that things might be corrected with an adjustment to ensure optimal speaker placement.

These units don't do really load volume levels because that would suck the living daylights out of the battery, but they certainly provide more than enough to hear everything properly when they are properly installed and working correctly. They are not top quality audio speakers, and it appears that they can be improved for a small investment, so for me that still makes the glass half-full. If I want HiFi sound (which I don't), apparantly, it is just a $15-$20 mod away. To me, that's great news for those that want that. For me, I've saved $10-$15 by not having something I wasn't looking for included.

I can appreciate that if I was looking for HiFi that I'd be disappointed, but I can tell you that anyone, and I mean anyone, who tries to suggest that they can get high-quality sound in their helmet over Bluetooth off their phone/MP3/GPS/etc., with the ambient noise of a motorcycle traveling 65 mph, has no concept of quality sound. You can, I suspect, get fairly good sound but definitely not great sound. Even great quality earbuds can't cancel out the very real ambient noise that surrounds us.

...Part of the problem may be that the other member with the problem tells us that he is using the yellow foamie ear protection, and they reduce sound by about 29-33dB. (I'm assuming that the other member is using quality plugs and inserting them properly, although not everyone does the latter). I use NoNoise earplugs that give protection from the wind noise but still allow much other (non-damaging) sound through. I dislike the muffling of all sound that foamie ear plugs bring, so I don't use them...

I use the same NoNoise Motorsport earplugs for exactly the same reason. Proper tool for the proper job. NoNoise MOTORSPORT Hearing Protectors are precisely tuned for optimum attenuation at the frequencies required by motorsport enthusiasts, particularly motorcyclists.

...My only issue is that I have to consult the user's guide rather frequently, especially when adding another helmet or trying to do something new, or that I rarely do with them. I can't remember the steps on the menu for these actions, but that's on me. I'd buy them again.

I've got the same problem. I keep PDF copies of the Quick Setup Guide (QSG) and Users Manual on my cell phone as a backup.

Are the Sena products perfect and do they work properly 100% of the time? No. However, I've not found any other communication system that, when properly installed works as well so often. Several years ago I switched from the wired Autocomm system to get away from needing to plug into everything and run wires every time I added something (GPS/Phone/VHF 2-way/etc.). Going to Sena's gear and Bluetooth connections just over 3 years ago made a great improvement in that experience and I haven't regretted a minute of it.

 

[globalrider]

I called Sena and they suggested running a few charge–discharge cycles. I did this and it helped a bit, but then the issue returned and could not be fixed with some charge–recharge cycles.

Battery cycling works with lead acid, NiMH and Nicad type of batteries, not Lthium types.

I had the same sort of issues that one member had, the volume wasn't loud enough on the first installation. Turns out I had the speakers mounted too high in my helmet.

Not the issue in my case which I confirmed. But the inadequate volume level seems to be widespread after Googling "Sena 10R Volume". I got a slew of sites including the one on the Sena Community complaining of too low a volume level at the speeds I stated.

By the way, my 10R has 12 volume steps from Min to Max Beep. And after listening to the radio in the silence of my home yesterday, I really had to wonder where the bottom 4 or 5 volume levels could be used...in the tranquility of an empty church? LOL.

Part of the problem may be that the other member with the problem tells us that he is using the yellow foamie ear protection, and they reduce sound by about 29-33dB.

Sure, I can hear my Sena without ear plugs, but I am not about to listen to ten hours of wind noise and damage my hearing. I've used ear plugs since I took flight training and then as a flight instructor to protect my hearing. And because ear plugs drown out the noise in an aircraft as well as the on-board radio, what you do is turn up the radio so that you can hear ATC. Too bad the Sena can't do that!

I have another Help Desk ticket open with Sena. The last one was closed and unresolved. They can either come up with a solution or offer to take the unit back. If they are willing to send me the ear bud adapter cable that I can cut into to try the speakers I ordered, I'll give that a try.

 

[globalrider]

Alex, it is possible that you have a defective unit, but I suspect the actual issue may be an improper placement of the speakers themselves during installation.

Alan, that might be the case and Sena can communicate with my local dealer to get me a replacement if they wish.

Speaker placement is fine. In fact last night I even removed the thin Shoei liners that cover the speakers; it made zero difference in volume which I expected.

There is a reason why I usually do my homework when buying aftermarket products. What I should have done was use Google to search out for issues. And I've held off having someone yak into my ears, but with the purchase of the BMW Navigator V for my new R1200 GSW Adventure, I said why not. I am not expecting hi-fidelity in any non-home system, but I do expect clear vocal transmission and I expect things to work.

 

[greenwald]

Alex, it is possible that you have a defective unit, but I suspect the actual issue may be an improper placement of the speakers themselves during installation. I have personally witnessed what you are describing, but only due to improper placement well outside the optimal positioning for volume/clarity. A few minutes of adjusting the positioning solved the problem which was virtually identical to what you've described. I've mentioned this before (I think on this Forum) that there is a little bit of work to be done to install any such system properly and all factory advice that I've seen pays virtually no or too little attention to the importance of doing pre-installation testing of the unit and speaker placement.

What was shown to me several years ago, by a recognized expert in "in-helmet" communications, is the following:

• identify that you are getting adequate volume from the unit itself. Pre-installation - pair the unit to a music source and play a specific song that you know. Play back that song holding one speaker over your ear and adjust the volume through it's range. You should find that 50% volume or less is as load or louder than you'd like for conversation levels. If not than you likely have a defective unit.
• set your preferred volume level (for conversations) and spend a few moments getting acclimated to that volume and the sound of the speaker pre-installation in the helmet
• do a test fitting of the speakers positioning in the helmet using your index and middle fingers of the opposite hand (speaker positioned in the helmet but not attached) and moving it in a systematic manner forward/back/up/down to identify the optimum positioning inside the helmet. Do this and the following steps for each side, going all the way through one side and then doing the other.
• again, spend a few moments getting acclimated to that sound in the optimum position for the first speaker
• have someone help you by having them hold the speakers in place with their index finger while you remove the helmet (to ensure there is the least amount of change in speaker position)
• taking note of the actual position, then place the velcro in the appropriate position and attach the speakers. Re-test for placement as you'll now have a audio reference from your previous testing to identify if the optimum positioning has been disturbed

I do have partial hearing loss (having had almost complete loss for a day and a half in the early 70's) and have not had any volume issues with either of my Sena SMH10 units or my SPH10 unit, nor with friends units 20S or otherwise.

Last week I had occasion to be travelling and was going to be renting a bike for two days but didn't have the ability to take any of my helmets with me, so I took the SPH10 and used a half-helmet (the SPH10 is designed to be used with these or without a helmet). Definitely not my desired option or something that I like doing (always run a full-faced helmet - my C3, Aria Vector-II, or Nolan), however, in this instance it was that or not ride as I needed to hear my GPS for where I was going.

So, I'm riding a Harley Electra Glide (not a quite bike), wearing a half-helmet (the nosiest helmet on can wear) and running between 80-100 mph most of the time (far greater wind noise than at 50mph). I had no problems hearing the directions from the Sena SPH10 at approximately 70% volume. I put my Nav-V GPS in my inside breast pocket of my riding jacket and simply navigated only from the audio directions through the Sena with no volume problems whatsoever.

Though I'm currently running a pair of 10S SENA units without any issues, UPS recently dropped off on my front porch a 20S unit, a FreeWire Bluetooth adapter and the new SENA Prism Tube video cam for motorcycle helmets.

I'll be testing and writing product reviews for all three items this spring (unfortunately, for a different publication than ON - obviously 'black-listed' from them yet), and so I spoke at length with the SENA reps at the International Motorcycle Show in Chicago this past weekend.

Hard to expand on all the great advice that Alan offered, but I'll echo this - they said that improper positioning of the ear pieces was the #1 cause of poor audio inside any helmet.

They made good arguments (similar to nuggets of knowledge Alan shared) for being extra-fussy about how you position those speakers - they should 'touch' the outer ear - not just come close.

Good luck with your install. I'm looking forward to playing with these SENA products this spring (along with a still-in-the-box KLOCK WERKS windshield and other new 'toys' crowding the workshop till better weather arrives for me to install and test).

 

[globalrider]

They made good arguments for being extra-fussy about how you position those speakers - they should 'touch' the outer ear - not just come close.

In that case the speaker placement in my Shoei Neotec in the speaker pockets should work, because that is where the Sena 10U which is helmet specific places them and they do not touch your ears in that installation. I was going to go for the 10U, but everybody said the 20S speakers that come with the 10R are so much better. Plus I like the idea of the external battery on the 10R.

The fact that Sena produces the 10U that places the speakers in a specific non-adjustable location tells me otherwise.

The Sena 10U speakers snap into the speaker pockets of the Shoei Neotec...

 

[beemerdood]

Battery cycling works with lead acid, NiMH and Nicad type of batteries, not Lthium types.

Perhaps then, you can explain why many manufacturers of devices that use "Lthium [sic] types," from phones to RC control vehicles, advise to cycle their batteries when they exhibit short battery lives?

Sure, I can hear my Sena without ear plugs, but I am not about to listen to ten hours of wind noise and damage my hearing.

Nice straw man. Except that no one is advocating that you ride without hearing protection. I merely pointed out that since your choice of ear pro reduces virtually all sound by "29-33dB," that if you used ear pro that selectively filtered out the harmful levels of sound, but permitted through the non–harmful sounds, that you'd have a better listening experience. If you want to dig in your heels and stick with a system that's not working, while you blame the device for the issues, when so many others have had success, you can.

I've used ear plugs since I took flight training and then as a flight instructor to protect my hearing. And because ear plugs drown out the noise in an aircraft as well as the on-board radio, what you do is turn up the radio so that you can hear ATC. Too bad the Sena can't do that!

I've used hearing pro for various sports and vocations for nearly six decades, so I know a bit about the topic as well. The Sena when used with appropriate ear pro, provides ample levels of sound, as I said, sometimes it's too loud. If I chose to use inappropriate/incompatible devices, I wouldn't expect great outcomes. Neither should anyone else.

Best of luck in getting your issue resolved. I suggest that they're resolved very easily by changing to more effective ear pro, but, based on your comments, I don't think that you're going to shift your position.

 

[beemerdood]

In that case the speaker placement in my Shoei Neotec in the speaker pockets should work

Manufacturers produce products that will fit 'the average person.' Witness my experience with the standard speaker pocket of the Schuberth helmet.

because that is where the Sena 10U which is helmet specific places them and they do not touch your ears in that installation. I was going to go for the 10U, but everybody said the 20S speakers that come with the 10R are so much better. Plus I like the idea of the external battery on the 10R.

Really? EVERYBODY? I think not. Such a statement might mean that "everybody" that you consulted made such a statement, but it's hardly going to be 100% of the people who use that setup.

The fact that Sena produces the 10U that places the speakers in a specific non-adjustable location tells me otherwise.

It shouldn't. What it SHOULD tell you is that Sena, like most manufacturers make products that will fit MOST people. There will always be those who are so far outside the average measurements that they need some special accommodation.

 

[daboo]

FWIW, I use 33db foam generic earplugs. My Sena 10C is too loud with those in to turn up the volume all the way. And my speakers do not touch my ears.

Chris