R12RT Auxiliary Light Mount?

[Stig]

I would like to add a set of Denali LED driving lights to my RT. Can anyone point me in the right direction for a bolt-on mount like this one, which is for an F800ST. I would like something that mounts underneath the oil cooler using the existing inner fairing bolts. I've also looked at the Ezy-Mount product, but I'm not crazy about drilling the fairing. Could a self tapping screw be used instead of drilling?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[racer7]

Assuming you are talking about the current RT

The EZ uses a rubber bushed thread at the drilled spot and is a lot better idea than a self tapping screw that could cause splitting. The panel drills easily and cleanly; the hole is not visible from ther outside because it is on the inner part of the panel. The mounts also use two existing screws. EZs may vibrate a bit depending on what is on them but this is easily remedied by using some rubber as a vibration damper and maybe a zip tie to the oil cooler surround.


Other than the EZ, your choices that I can remember are
1) BMR that puts lights below mirrors
2) A caliper bracket a la Motolights
3) A bracket that clips into the fork
4) A bracket on one of the crash bars available.
5) Make your own

The RT design does not allow a crossbar type mount as is available for GS models.

 

[Atomicman52]

I would like to add a set of Denali LED driving lights to my RT. Can anyone point me in the right direction for a bolt-on mount like this one, which is for an F800ST. I would like something that mounts underneath the oil cooler using the existing inner fairing bolts. I've also looked at the Ezy-Mount product, but I'm not crazy about drilling the fairing. Could a self tapping screw be used instead of drilling?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Did you consider Clearwater glendas. I just installed them on my RT.

 

[Atomicman52]

More Photos

 

[Atomicman52]

program is only letting post one photo

 

[Stig]

Thanks for the replies so far. I wish I had the materials and skills to make my own version of the F800ST mount, but unfortunately I don't at this point. I think at this point I am deciding between the EZ mount and a set of LumaLink mounts for the lower forks. I may go ahead and order the Denali lights and see if LumaLink can drill them for whatever size mounting bolt they come with.

AtomicMan, yes I've looked at the Clearwater lights in the past, but I really want something like the Denalis that have more "throw" down the road. But I do like your set-up, it looks very clean!

 

[RTST]

Plus one on the Clearwater lights, super setup and they get noticed in traffic.
Larry

 

[tlcoulter]

Did you consider Clearwater glendas. I just installed them on my RT.

How difficult was the installation? I got a copy of their manual for the RT, and the wiring diagram, to me at least, is confusing.

 

[Stig]

Wow, I didn't realize how bright the Clearwater Lights were! And I like that they come with a mount specific to the RT. Those might be the answer and I'm also curious how easy/hard they are to install. Do they include a colored wiring block as was recommended by webBikeWorld during their review?

 

[Atomicman52]

Since my bike is still on warranty and i also installed a a BMR Co-Pilot with a Valentine 1, zumo 665, and a Centech AP-2, I had Ride West the BMW dealer here do the work.

One additional cool feature is the dimmer switch. It is adjustable for off to full bright, but the kit comes with a relay that you hook to your high beam so that if you have them on 50% power and hit the high beam the Clearwater's go to full power! the switch installation

 

[Atomicman52]

Also had the front socket rewired to the unswitched side of the AP-2

Here is a shot of the BMR and the Dash!

 

[marcopolo]

...One additional cool feature is the dimmer switch. It is adjustable for off to full bright, but the kit comes with a relay that you hook to your high beam so that if you have them on 50% power and hit the high beam the Clearwater's go to full power! the switch installation

Just a little FYI; the "dimmer" will adjust from 15% intensity, at its lowest setting, to 85% intensity, at its highest. The LEDs are never completely off and they only go to 100% if you either "flash to pass", or put on the high beams. This info came from Glen, the owner of Clearwater. He explained that by limiting the intensity to 85% on low beam, a driver ahead of you will still see a difference (in the Glendas, and the bike's high beam, of course) when you flash to pass. BTW, I had some installed last week. Pretty slick piece of kit.

 

[racer7]

An equally likely reason is that the heat sinking for the LEDs is inadequate for sustained operation at full power.

In many of the higher power battery powered led lights on the market there is loss of ouput with time(usually over minutes of operation with full brightness restored and again available after the the light is switched off and allowed to cool) because inadequate heat sinking creates high temps at the led that lead to reduced output (typically on the order of 10-30%, not very easy to notice as a gradual decline over minutes unless you've got a good meter) and, if the heat is extreme, to shortened led life or in the worst cases, led failure.

A common example is the readily available led conversions for various Mag Lites- most of the cheapy conversions you see in big box places have this engineering defect. Good led conversions of Mag Lites exist and are both more expensive and uncommon. Some are made and sold by former hobbyists.

3 hi output leds in a small housing is a serious heat sink problem requiring a well designed conductive seat for the leds if one intends full output operation for more than a minute or so. A hobbyist would use a solid aluminum or copper disc to mount the leds and then make sure its heat flow was well connected to the metal housing for further dissipation. Silver heat sink paste is a common vehicle for this and leds are mounted to the heat sink with heat conductive epoxies. I've never taken apart a Glenda so have no specific comments on it- just the general comment that the problem is well known to led hobbyists and engineers. Dropping the voltage is the easiest way to avoid it if you don't want to use a large heat sink and adequate metal housing and this may be what is going on with the Glendas- matching output to heat sink capability.

Various discussions about led light design can be found at candlepower forums and some other sites for those interested in learning more about led designs. They do not behave like miniature tungsten bulbs!

FWIW, there is general consensus that led lights at the same output as a tungsten filament are not as good at allowing color peception or depth perception if you are trying to light the road rather than simply be noticed by others. (This suggest leds are more suited to urban and suburban areas than to dark rural roads). You can easily demonstrate this for yourself with an led flashlight compared to one with a halogen bulb by just pointing them at a distant tree. LED major advantages are efficiency (need few amps so can use light gauge wires) and long life if operating temps are kept low enough. The first is of no importance if you own a modern R bike that makes more amps than many cars did 15 or 20 years ago. The second matters a good deal if you use them as conspicuity lights so they're always on. An example of a light that DOES NOT make a good conspicuity light is the Trail Tech 30W HID setup- bulb life is rated at 400 hrs but they rarely last that long and the bulbs are expensive- $75 or more each. TT's do make a good hi beam supplement however. (Regular car type D2S HIDs don't have this short lifespan issue, the TT bulb is a miniaturized design with heat problems inherent in the shrunken light capsule)

 

[BRASTERS]

An equally likely reason is that the heat sinking for the LEDs is inadequate for sustained operation at full power.

In many of the higher power battery powered led lights on the market there is loss of ouput with time(usually over minutes of operation with full brightness restored and again available after the the light is switched off and allowed to cool) because inadequate heat sinking creates high temps at the led that lead to reduced output (typically on the order of 10-30%, not very easy to notice as a gradual decline over minutes unless you've got a good meter) and, if the heat is extreme, to shortened led life or in the worst cases, led failure.

A common example is the readily available led conversions for various Mag Lites- most of the cheapy conversions you see in big box places have this engineering defect. Good led conversions of Mag Lites exist and are both more expensive and uncommon. Some are made and sold by former hobbyists.

3 hi output leds in a small housing is a serious heat sink problem requiring a well designed conductive seat for the leds if one intends full output operation for more than a minute or so. A hobbyist would use a solid aluminum or copper disc to mount the leds and then make sure its heat flow was well connected to the metal housing for further dissipation. Silver heat sink paste is a common vehicle for this and leds are mounted to the heat sink with heat conductive epoxies. I've never taken apart a Glenda so have no specific comments on it- just the general comment that the problem is well known to led hobbyists and engineers. Dropping the voltage is the easiest way to avoid it if you don't want to use a large heat sink and adequate metal housing and this may be what is going on with the Glendas- matching output to heat sink capability.

Various discussions about led light design can be found at candlepower forums and some other sites for those interested in learning more about led designs. They do not behave like miniature tungsten bulbs!

FWIW, there is general consensus that led lights at the same output as a tungsten filament are not as good at allowing color peception or depth perception if you are trying to light the road rather than simply be noticed by others. (This suggest leds are more suited to urban and suburban areas than to dark rural roads). You can easily demonstrate this for yourself with an led flashlight compared to one with a halogen bulb by just pointing them at a distant tree. LED major advantages are efficiency (need few amps so can use light gauge wires) and long life if operating temps are kept low enough. The first is of no importance if you own a modern R bike that makes more amps than many cars did 15 or 20 years ago. The second matters a good deal if you use them as conspicuity lights so they're always on. An example of a light that DOES NOT make a good conspicuity light is the Trail Tech 30W HID setup- bulb life is rated at 400 hrs but they rarely last that long and the bulbs are expensive- $75 or more each. TT's do make a good hi beam supplement however. (Regular car type D2S HIDs don't have this short lifespan issue, the TT bulb is a miniaturized design with heat problems inherent in the shrunken light capsule)

The whole housing is the heatsink, so no "run at full power" issues. Kristas are the new LED light from Clearwater that do throw the light down the road, with none of the HID or tungsten issues.

 

[Stig]

Interesting... It also appears that the Clearwater Lights use older LED technology vs. the Denalis, which appear to use a CREE-style LED bulb. The Denali lights also claim to use the aluminum housing as a heat sink, which may keep them cool provided you have air flowing over them.

 

[Atomicman52]

Just a little FYI; the "dimmer" will adjust from 15% intensity, at its lowest setting, to 85% intensity, at its highest. The LEDs are never completely off and they only go to 100% if you either "flash to pass", or put on the high beams. This info came from Glen, the owner of Clearwater. He explained that by limiting the intensity to 85% on low beam, a driver ahead of you will still see a difference (in the Glendas, and the bike's high beam, of course) when you flash to pass. BTW, I had some installed last week. Pretty slick piece of kit.

You are absolutely correct on the high end, but mine go off completely on the low end. At least I think they do! maybe not?

And it is not just flash to pass, there is an additional relay (it comes with the kit )that when installed (optional, but i don't know why you woudl leave it off) put them to full intensity regardless of where the dimmer is set when you flash or turn on the high beam.

 

[marcopolo]

You are absolutely correct on the high end, but mine go off completely on the low end.

And it is not just flash to pass, there is an additional relay (it comes with the kit )that when installed (optional, but i don't know why you woudl leave it off) put them to full intensity regardless of where the dimmer is set when you flash or turn on the high beam.

Umm, that's exactly what I said if you re-read my post (100% intensity when you flash to pass, or switch on high beam, so we agree on that one.

As for going off completely, have you tried them on low in a dark spot, e.g., garage? They're pretty dim at 15%.

 

[pbranden@schoolhousegraphics.com]

Clearwarters has some new lights out

The new Clearwater KRISTA high power LED light is now shipping

The big sister to Glenda boasts up to 5x more light with a longer reaching pattern.
...and at $649.00 they will not be a top seller.

I put these on http://www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-led-running-lights.html for under $30.00 if you just want to be seen by oncoming.

Check it out.

 

[Stig]

Those Kristas are super bright... but are a bit spendy as well. I'm still up in the air between the Glendas and the Denalis. Whichever set I end up going with, I want something that is really going to light up the night and will work with the high beam switch. I ride a lot at night (midnight-ish) on some pretty dark, windy country roads and want an LED system with as much deer spotting potential as possible. I've set my budget at about $500 total, which is what the Clearwater kit goes for or the Denalis with a set of Lumalink brackets.

 

[Atomicman52]

The new Clearwater KRISTA high power LED light is now shipping

The big sister to Glenda boasts up to 5x more light with a longer reaching pattern.
...and at $649.00 they will not be a top seller.

I put these on http://www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-led-running-lights.html for under $30.00 if you just want to be seen by oncoming.

Check it out.

those lights look pretty good. I like the twinkle. My comment would be that they would better serve the conspicuity purpose if they were mounted down low. The adddtional lights mounted low and away from the headlight gives the perception of a much larger more noticeable vehicle.