R100/7 oil change

[179212]

I have 1977 R100/7 I have changed oil a couple of times to the best of my knowledge removed filter and other stuff replaced with new same order. I saw a post somewhere on this forum about white washer well while looking for a set of points I found a BMW oil filter kit for this bike and it had stuff in it I don't member seeing before such as white washer so to make a short question long is there a diagram or video or something that shows what parts are needed and what order they go in for this bike?
Thanks for helping

 

[jimwjarmour]

oil filter

Hi, there should be in order of installation the filter modern one will have rubber rings as part of the tube , also a steel shim (washer) a thick white rubber o ring then the cap with 3 screws ,, there is a gasket but not required (I install one on my 1977 r100s) and thats it , my last O ring supplied by moto bins uk , was black ? hope this assists ,Jimmy

 

[toooldtocare]

One source for info. http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html

Another. http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/oil.htm

And http://www.airheads.org/sjm-test-me...res-a-technical-info-rev-by-author-12-07-2007

 

[hotwheels22]

One source for info. http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html

Another. http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/oil.htm

And http://www.airheads.org/sjm-test-me...res-a-technical-info-rev-by-author-12-07-2007

yeah, that largiader link helped me a ton. someone correct me if I am in error but it should be:

1. get a pick in the insert/canister to check behind the old filter to make sure you don't have a binged up o ring back there.

2. insert filter with black square section o ring.

3. inset one steel shim (or two or three or whatever if you're insert/canister has /shifted/ further into the engine block or if it was inserted too far by the factory during install).

4. insert "$2000 o ring" (and make sure you don't cut it or bung it around) so that it is COMPRESSED by about 20% or something.

5. do not use paper gasket between oil filter cover and engine block as it will /hide/ oil leaks which you need to know about and it will /decrease/ the amount of compression on the white o ring (and offset the purpose of putting in the metal shim).

6. long version is to get out your calipers and measure depth per largiader and add up your I ring and spacers and make sure you have the correct parts in there. since the oil light is likely to come on after your engine burns up if you lost oil due to an uncompressed I ring or bunged I ring install the largiader steps are a pain but very well explained and really worth it.

2c

- jon

 

[20774]

5. do not use paper gasket between oil filter cover and engine block as it will /hide/ oil leaks which you need to know about and it will /decrease/ the amount of compression on the white o ring (and offset the purpose of putting in the metal shim).

True...unless you find out you do need it. That's where the measurement of the canister depth is important. The canister on my /7 is 2.8mm which is too close to the engine case. I use a gasket (or two) in order to not putt too much pressure on the $2000 o-ring. So, it's important to understand all of the parameters for your bike and then put those parts in as required.

 

[hotwheels22]

True...unless you find out you do need it. That's where the measurement of the canister depth is important. The canister on my /7 is 2.8mm which is too close to the engine case. I use a gasket (or two) in order to not putt too much pressure on the $2000 o-ring. So, it's important to understand all of the parameters for your bike and then put those parts in as required.

nice. thanks.

I must admit at first this issue had me in brain freeze mode. for quite a while I was thinking that "canister depth" referred to the distance between the metal face of the oil filter and the face of the block and couldn't figure out how I was supposed to measure this. took me awhile to realize I was measuring to the face of that little inserted aluminum piece that the oil filter sits in...

 

[20774]

It actually is a canister that is installed into the engine case...yes, the filter resides inside it. See #10 here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=0333-USA-09-1977-2474-BMW-R_100_7T&diagId=11_1726

The depth is the distance the outside edge of this canister is below the plane of the engine case.

 

[SCBuckeye]

True...unless you find out you do need it. That's where the measurement of the canister depth is important. The canister on my /7 is 2.8mm which is too close to the engine case. I use a gasket (or two) in order to not putt too much pressure on the $2000 o-ring. So, it's important to understand all of the parameters for your bike and then put those parts in as required.

After you measure the 2.8mm you put in the metal ring, and then the white Oring and then you use 1 or 2 gaskets on the cover? How do you decide on how much pressure the white Oring should have? Is it a certain amount of compression when totally assembled?

For example, I forget the exact cross section dimension of the white Oring, but for now, let's say it is 2mm. What should be it's thickness dimension once compressed at assembly? Should it be, let's say, 1.5 mm when "smashed" in there? That has always been confusing to me.

I haven't ever done the calculations as you have (and I think I should), so what I do is to put it back together exactly as it came apart, which assumes that the P/O had it done right. I always look to see that the ring IS being compressed, but I don't have a good formula - just "feel" - - and we know how fickle that is!

 

[20774]

Yes, it takes some "math" to figure out what you need. Anton has a set of tables on his website that helps with that. Oak published in Airmail a number of years ago his formulation. It goes like this:

o-ring thick (mm) 4.0
shim thick (mm) 0.3
gasket thick (mm) 0.5
"my" canister depth (mm) 2.8

The formula is:
- compute o-ring+shim-gasket (if used)
- subtract canister depth
- divide by o-ring thickness*100
- goal is 10-25%

In my case, if I use only one gasket, the value is 25%. If two gaskets are used, the value is 12.5%. 25% is a bit strong, so I've opted for two gaskets...it's not really under that much pressure. I think this coincides with what Anton suggests on his site:

http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html

 

[hotwheels22]

After you measure the 2.8mm you put in the metal ring, and then the white Oring and then you use 1 or 2 gaskets on the cover? How do you decide on how much pressure the white Oring should have? Is it a certain amount of compression when totally assembled?

For example, I forget the exact cross section dimension of the white Oring, but for now, let's say it is 2mm. What should be it's thickness dimension once compressed at assembly? Should it be, let's say, 1.5 mm when "smashed" in there? That has always been confusing to me.

I haven't ever done the calculations as you have (and I think I should), so what I do is to put it back together exactly as it came apart, which assumes that the P/O had it done right. I always look to see that the ring IS being compressed, but I don't have a good formula - just "feel" - - and we know how fickle that is!

yeah. Anton says you have to take "ownership" of this issue. I had to scratch my head a bit on the 'canister depth" but once you measure that you should be able to just subtract out this number and the gaskets etc (and ADD the paper shims) end up up in the /range/ Anton gives. I've seen some folks go sonar as to actually measure the o ring and gasket and shim as well.

anyway, the other item of note is that some canisters have sharp edges and the shim on the /inside/ is also to protect against the I ring being cut. metal sh is on the inside which is kind of counterintuitive. I think it protects against sharp edges (if you have them) but also keeps oil from getting back into the engine without going through the filter...

 

[SCBuckeye]

Yes, it takes some "math" to figure out what you need. Anton has a set of tables on his website that helps with that. Oak published in Airmail a number of years ago his formulation. It goes like this:

o-ring thick (mm) 4.0
shim thick (mm) 0.3
gasket thick (mm) 0.5
"my" canister depth (mm) 2.8

The formula is:
- compute o-ring+shim-gasket (if used)
- subtract canister depth
- divide by o-ring thickness*100
- goal is 10-25%

In my case, if I use only one gasket, the value is 25%. If two gaskets are used, the value is 12.5%. 25% is a bit strong, so I've opted for two gaskets...it's not really under that much pressure. I think this coincides with what Anton suggests on his site:

http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html

When you use the "per-cent" figure, does that refer to the percent of the original O-ring thickness? I.e., when one uses 25% does he then refer to 1 mm compression of the Oring, because it is originally uncompressed was 4mm? Sounds like that, to me. This would end up with the O-ring being 3mm when compressed and all the bolts tight.

I am going to have to go home and think about it, and do the math to see what I come up with.

Thanks to both for your responses.

 

[20774]

Buckeye -

I wouldn't think too hard on it. But yes, since we're working with the thickness dimensions, we're talking about a compression or percentage decrease in that thickness of the o-ring. In the end, if you figure something out, put the components together, and next time when you remove the o-ring, you should see a distinct "squareness" to the white o-ring. That would indicate that it was compressed enough to take a permanent set.

 

[lkchris]

The purpose of the metal washer is to provide the inside sealing surface for the white o-ring. Without it, the o-ring will simply be damaged by the canister. "Shim" is a term mistakenly used to describe this washer, as creating thickness was never its original purpose, nor was use of more than one.

Later engines--probably 1985 and newer--have a folded over edge on the canister and the washer is not required. I have the official service manual with pages dated 1983 and there is reference to this new canister style, but, again, I don't think it got here until a few years later.

One post above refers to a paper shim--there is no such thing.

Yes, the paper gasket for the cover is something not applicable to /7 and newer engines. It's a universal kit useful for all engines, but not all parts always apply.

I've never seen an engine that required more than one metal washer and continue to believe this to be a very rare occurrence.

 

[20774]

Yes, the paper gasket for the cover is something not applicable to /7 and newer engines. It's a universal kit useful for all engines, but not all parts always apply.

I disagree. Regardless of the year (not /6 or earlier), if the canister depth is less than 3.0mm, then a paper gasket will be needed to move the cover out in order to not over compress the white o-ring. That is the situation with my bike. So, there are circumstances where the paper gasket is applicable.

 

[guenner]

With the calculation presented by Kurt I make sure that the white O-ring is compressed by ~0.4mm. With every oil change I check that the old O-ring is slightly squared from the compression.

The metal shim is definitely needed if the edge of the oil canister is not chamfered (=sharp edge).

When I tighten the bolts and there is still a ~1mm gap I check with a flashlight that the white O-ring indeed has slipped into its seat.

/Guenther

 

[SCBuckeye]

I disagree. Regardless of the year (not /6 or earlier), if the canister depth is less than 3.0mm, then a paper gasket will be needed to move the cover out in order to not over compress the white o-ring. That is the situation with my bike. So, there are circumstances where the paper gasket is applicable.

Agree with Kurt!

 

[SCBuckeye]

With the calculation presented by Kurt I make sure that the white O-ring is compressed by ~0.4mm. With every oil change I check that the old O-ring is slightly squared from the compression.

The metal shim is definitely needed if the edge of the oil canister is not chamfered (=sharp edge).

When I tighten the bolts and there is still a ~1mm gap I check with a flashlight that the white O-ring indeed has slipped into its seat.

/Guenther

I consider this to be very good advice! -- Thanks to both you and Kurt