Day pass = bad idea. People too cheap to pay the full fare are also too cheap to spend much money at the vendor booths. The fixed costs of the rally (site rental, porta potties, showers, tents, golf carts, etc) need to be covered regardless of whether people stay one day or six. Other than wristband checks at the gates and beer tent there are no other credential checks. There are already at least four wristbands (attendees and vendors, over and under 21), each days day-pass would require at least 2 more colors (over and under 21). As it is, security is so busy once the event gets started even cars (that should be parked out of the venue) are allowed to remain. TSA-style checks at all the doors?
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Proposed Change to Rally Fee
- Thread starter royce
- Start date
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
I'm not sure a day pass would interest many people living close enough to use it. Many people look at BMWs as weird looking motorcycles (usually a GS) ridden by well off riders. Most of the vendors are BMW oriented and the average rider has little interest in what they sell. It's unfamiliar territory for the average motorcyclist and those that are interested enough to pay the day pass fee would be good potential owners/members. I would have no interest in paying $20-$25 to walk through a Harley/Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki/Indian, etc rally unless I owned or was interested in that brand.
I think most of the people who would buy a day pass would be the people who would pay the full price if it was not available.
I think most of the people who would buy a day pass would be the people who would pay the full price if it was not available.
classicvw
Active member
Nobody is turned away. You pay, you get in. So there are no "people who decide this."
And why are you yelling? Calm down.
classicvw
Active member
I couldn't agree with you more!
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
+1, Gunny! We AZ Beemers has been selling day passes at our Annual Road Runner Rally for 39 years now, we gain revenue for BMW MOA Club #89 plus we've added new AZB Members: Most importantly, we've added new BMW Owners to the Ranks of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America! I'm 100% with you tommcgee, makes no valid sense for either monetary or promotional reasons not to sell day passes! MOA Member #24810 since 1979! jes' sayin' and nuff said!
Travman
New member
Sorry, but I do not agree. If I ever attend a rally, it would probably be only for a day and the vendors would be the primary reason. Having a group of vendors in one place to compare products that are catering specifically to BMW's would be the draw. I value the vendors to be there and peddle their products, the rest of the rally, I could do without beyond a day trip.
classicvw
Active member
You also have to figure just how worthwhile it would be to have a day pass and the extra cost and work it would involve. Just how many BMW owners that live close enough to the rally site for a day ride and how many of those that would otherwise not attend would take the day pass?
Like a previous poster said, I can't see an owner of a Harley or Yamaha wanting to come in and buy something from a mostly BMW vendor. While I believe we should be welcoming to any brand, I think THEY would be not all that interested in attending OUR rally.
Like a previous poster said, I can't see an owner of a Harley or Yamaha wanting to come in and buy something from a mostly BMW vendor. While I believe we should be welcoming to any brand, I think THEY would be not all that interested in attending OUR rally.
Overland Expo
I was at Overland Expo this year and used a day pass.
The people registering day users were volunteers and seemed not to be concerned about the finer points of the day passes.
There was no attempt to police the length of stay in the camping area.
The camping and vendor areas were unsecured and anyone could have come in without paying if they wanted to.
There were no showers and only portable toilets (which were kept clean).
The camping was in a field with only a few trees, but plenty of "dung", if they had allowed fires you wouldn't need to look for wood.
There was no power available to charge batteries etc. The large camper people ran generators, in some cases all night.
This event is run by Conserveventures http://www.conserventures.org/about/
This was totally different and smaller than a MOA national. It wouldn't be useful to compare the two events.
I enjoyed the event and might consider going again.
Nobody stole anything from me.
I was at Overland Expo this year and used a day pass.
The people registering day users were volunteers and seemed not to be concerned about the finer points of the day passes.
There was no attempt to police the length of stay in the camping area.
The camping and vendor areas were unsecured and anyone could have come in without paying if they wanted to.
There were no showers and only portable toilets (which were kept clean).
The camping was in a field with only a few trees, but plenty of "dung", if they had allowed fires you wouldn't need to look for wood.
There was no power available to charge batteries etc. The large camper people ran generators, in some cases all night.
This event is run by Conserveventures http://www.conserventures.org/about/
This was totally different and smaller than a MOA national. It wouldn't be useful to compare the two events.
I enjoyed the event and might consider going again.
Nobody stole anything from me.
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
I was at Overland Expo this year and used a day pass.
The people registering day users were volunteers and seemed not to be concerned about the finer points of the day passes.
There was no attempt to police the length of stay in the camping area.
The camping and vendor areas were unsecured and anyone could have come in without paying if they wanted to.
There were no showers and only portable toilets (which were kept clean).
The camping was in a field with only a few trees, but plenty of "dung", if they had allowed fires you wouldn't need to look for wood.
There was no power available to charge batteries etc. The large camper people ran generators, in some cases all night.
This event is run by Conserveventures http://www.conserventures.org/about/
This was totally different and smaller than a MOA national. It wouldn't be useful to compare the two events.
I enjoyed the event and might consider going again.
Nobody stole anything from me.
Thank You Charlie, that's an excellent summation of Overland Expo in AZ. Since besides owning BMW GS's I also own Jeep four wheel drives, Overland Expo's a fun event!
I don't understand why our BMW MOA believes a day pass is extra work, for our AZ Beemers Roadrunner Rally we use different colored wrist bands: So easy to check it!
Visian
look out!!!
Not that I don't think day passes aren't a good idea, but a local club rally with 3-600 guests is way different that our National with 6000-ish.
Ian
Visian
look out!!!
There is one useful way to compare these two events. A basic exhibitor at Overland Expos pays nearly $600 to appear at this show, while the MOA charges a little more than half of that.
So.... I believe this means that the OX people are less interested in whether people cheat on their day passes.... they're more interested in body count.
I could be wrong.
Ian
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
I attended my 1st BMW MOA International Rally held in 1980 at the Fairgrounds in Prineville, Oregon. I worked the Gate as a Volunteer for that Rally and every rally since then I have attended, Vermont-Montana-Oregon and you name it! The scale of size makes no real difference, if you are working the Gate Security you are looking for the wristband, I happen to still have my wristband/credentials from Ruben Tenorio for the Mexico Moto Clubs Rally held in Guadalajara and it was roja (red).
So let's say we pick red for next year's Billings, Montana MOA Rally, if I am working the Gate and I am sure that I will be: If someone flashes up a wristband other than a red one I will stop the individual and sort out the situation. Because common sense will dictate that WE will change the day passes to a different color for different days.
Make wristband day passes for Billings Rally blue for Thursday, yellow for Friday and green on Saturday. If this old man sees you flashing him a blue wristband at the Gate on Friday or Saturday I will stop you: Requiring you to buy another day pass. I really don't see folks trying to cheat on a day pass, because the colors are foolproof!
Visian
look out!!!
Oh, I totally understand the concept, and would like to have day passes.
But two things:
- does this work with 6,000 people? I believe scale is significant.
- do you know how many times I've ridden past the gate and not shown my wristband? Zillions!
I do not have the answer, I'm pro day-pass. I'm just saying that there's merit to the complexity and scale argument.
Ian
But two things:
- does this work with 6,000 people? I believe scale is significant.
- do you know how many times I've ridden past the gate and not shown my wristband? Zillions!
I do not have the answer, I'm pro day-pass. I'm just saying that there's merit to the complexity and scale argument.
Ian
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
Oh, I totally understand the concept, and would like to have day passes.
But two things:
- does this work with 6,000 people? I believe scale is significant.
- do you know how many times I've ridden past the gate and not shown my wristband? Zillions!
I do not have the answer, I'm pro day-pass. I'm just saying that there's merit to the complexity and scale argument.
Ian
If Security is allowing folks to ride past a Gate without flashing a wristband: THEY ARE NOT EVEN DOING THEIR JOB! People sneaking in is much worse than day passes!
If our BMW Brothers can enforce the wristbands at Mexico MOA Rallies you would think we Gringos can do the same. Ruben T. and his Hermanos with their wristbands:
This post is intended for someone (anyone) on the MOA Board of Directors: Is this thread being recorded? Monitored? Paid attention to by the BOD? Will it have any impact on the BOD's discussions and votes?
I began this thread with the request that my fellow MOA members contact the BOD via email with their thoughts on the annual rally fee structure, but it seems that the thread has evolved into another routine chat session. That is great for us to opine about the rally fee, but if it does not get to the BOD than I think we are wasting our breath.
Any BOD members prepared to answer the above questions?
I began this thread with the request that my fellow MOA members contact the BOD via email with their thoughts on the annual rally fee structure, but it seems that the thread has evolved into another routine chat session. That is great for us to opine about the rally fee, but if it does not get to the BOD than I think we are wasting our breath.
Any BOD members prepared to answer the above questions?
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
Royce, our Board of Directors is very responsive. Have you sent them an email with your concerns, they'll get back to you ASAP! I've sent them an email, they're aware!
"BMW MOA Directors: Wanted to share my feeling with you regarding Rally Day Passes, I feel they help out our Core Membership and will attract New Members! BeemerDonS"
BMW MOA Director Greg Feeler is a Good Guy and has always gotten back to me in a short time, you can email GF at gregf@e-moto.org It's in your Owners News!
Check the OP of this thread. I began this thread with a quotation from an email I sent to the BOD. I did not particularly expect a personal response, and I have not received one. Not a problem, as long as they (BOD) are paying attention to this thread. But that "paying attention to this thread" is what concerns me. Folks who seem to know how the MOA system works have indicated in the past that the BOD only responds to specific member input (letters, email, phone calls, etc.) and they do not respond to chatter on the Forum.
Royce -
I have see a minimum of Chuck Manley (MOA BOD President) and this year's rally Chair, Karol Patzer, take part in this thread. There is no doubt that they have been made aware of the discussion. Not to say that an email to the Board wouldn't hurt!
Let's hope they think more of this as just "chatter"!!!
I have see a minimum of Chuck Manley (MOA BOD President) and this year's rally Chair, Karol Patzer, take part in this thread. There is no doubt that they have been made aware of the discussion. Not to say that an email to the Board wouldn't hurt!
Let's hope they think more of this as just "chatter"!!!
okiegman
New member
I for one have read every post in this thread since it began. I check back on it every few days to see new posts.
I am a brand new Board Member and first heard these discussions at the Leadership Summit during the rally. At this point I am "listening" to what MOA members want from the Board. I'm sure this subject will be brought up a future Board meetings and I will do my best to vote for what is best for the MOA.
Now that being said, it seems there is about an even split among our members (based upon this thread, the Leadership Summit and other members I have spoken with), those who want day passes and those who are absolutely against the idea. I understand both arguments and will continue to monitor this thread and note any e-mails I(we) receive for when this comes up in future Board meetings.
As your Treasurer my vote on this matter will also be based upon how this MIGHT affect MOA's bottom line. For this, there will have to be substantial faith in the predicted outcome.
One possible idea I had after the Leadership Summit was to offer a "segregated" camping area from vendors and other rally areas for those who are concerned about stuff being stolen (a valid concern). This would depend upon costs (to the MOA) and each rally site would be different and might not even be possible. What are the thoughts about that idea?
Second, I would really only favor one day passes being offered on Saturday. Then there is no concern about people overstaying their welcome and Saturday seems to be the most logical day for someone who would want to visit for a single day. Any thoughts there?
Third, like what was brought up here and at the Leadership Summit should day passes be limited to MOA members (new or signed up a registration) and those sponsored by MOA members?
Sincerely,
Wes Fitzer
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I am a brand new Board Member and first heard these discussions at the Leadership Summit during the rally. At this point I am "listening" to what MOA members want from the Board. I'm sure this subject will be brought up a future Board meetings and I will do my best to vote for what is best for the MOA.
Now that being said, it seems there is about an even split among our members (based upon this thread, the Leadership Summit and other members I have spoken with), those who want day passes and those who are absolutely against the idea. I understand both arguments and will continue to monitor this thread and note any e-mails I(we) receive for when this comes up in future Board meetings.
As your Treasurer my vote on this matter will also be based upon how this MIGHT affect MOA's bottom line. For this, there will have to be substantial faith in the predicted outcome.
One possible idea I had after the Leadership Summit was to offer a "segregated" camping area from vendors and other rally areas for those who are concerned about stuff being stolen (a valid concern). This would depend upon costs (to the MOA) and each rally site would be different and might not even be possible. What are the thoughts about that idea?
Second, I would really only favor one day passes being offered on Saturday. Then there is no concern about people overstaying their welcome and Saturday seems to be the most logical day for someone who would want to visit for a single day. Any thoughts there?
Third, like what was brought up here and at the Leadership Summit should day passes be limited to MOA members (new or signed up a registration) and those sponsored by MOA members?
Sincerely,
Wes Fitzer
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
