Onboard computer data

[tepeterson7848]

Hi folks

I have tried to find this answer on the forum but no luck...

Does the on board computer on a 2022 1250 track top speed anywhere?

Thanks Tom

 

[pglaves]

I am pretty sure it does but am not sure you can access it. But the accident investigation team can access it I think.

 

[tsconver]

If you use the connected app it tells you your speed, acceleration and deceleration gs, lean angle for a given trip that you had it connected for.

 

[BC1100S]

Hi folks

I have tried to find this answer on the forum but no luck...

Does the on board computer on a 2022 1250 track top speed anywhere?

Thanks Tom

It does. I can access it via my Nav V screen.

 

[LFarling]

It does. I can access it via my Nav V screen.

I guess my question is, is it the app on the NAV that is holding that speed number or is it in the bike's ECU?

I no longer use a a BMW NAV so I no longer have the app. I have to say I wish I could get that app onto my XT as it was handy.

I am not sure but if it is held in the ECU maybe a GS-911 or MotoScan can somehow retrieve it.

That said most accidents I have seen use skid marks, or lack of to determine aprox. speed. You would think if they could pull speed from a vehicle they would be doing that in prosecuting people. I have never seen it written that at the time of the accident the data of the car indicated a speed of 100 MPH. Maybe a legal thing?

 

[Omega Man]

Most all of this information is stored in the vehicle computer- “Black Box”. Some is triggered by an event, some is just recorded and stored for a period of time and overwritten due to storage space.

Here is an excerpt from Tiger Woods unfortunate accident-

The GV80's Event Data Record, commonly known as a "black box," was recovered and examined under search warrant on March 1. According to Powers, the EDR recorded two events correlated to the impact with the sidewalk curb after the vehicle crossed the oncoming lanes and the impact with the tree. Together, the two recorded events provide a seven-second window into what the vehicle was doing right before impact. The EDR recorded speeds between 82 mph and 89 mph when the vehicle jumped the median, 75 mph when it jumped the sidewalk, and 68 mph at the time of impact with the tree.
The EDR also recorded the position of the vehicle's pedals and showed the accelerator pedal at 99 percent and the brake pedal at zero percent. In other words, the gas was floored throughout the accident, and the brake was never applied. Pedal misapplication, as it's known, is common when a driver panics and attempts to slam on the brakes only to hit the gas accidentally.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/tiger-woods-crash-investigation/

If one were to consider the vehicle’s ability to collect this data and add it to GPS locations and throw in E-Z Pass/traffic monitoring with your smartphone, there can be a lot of information working for or against you.

OM

 

[kbasa]

Part of my job involves computer forensics, usually in business situations, like collecting data from a phone, network or computer. Sometimes we have to deal with vehicle data systems. Basically, “it depends”. Some systems only track the last 30 seconds or something in a rolling way. 31 seconds ago gets deleted to allow the new 1 second of data to be stored. Some newer ones store more for longer. Some early ones don’t store anything. If the worry is discoverability, like whether it could be used to write tickets, the barrier is cost and pragmatic factors.

The data will need to be forensically collected so it isn’t altered and will require a chain of custody as it’s stored. It’s evidence. Every vehicle’s ECU, etc isn’t directly accessible via a commercial software product, so interrogating the device and actually collecting the data outside the device may not be possible in a reasonably economic way. It may not be possible to collect it from the device at all.

With the BMW app/ECU, it’s hard to know unless one knows which data points are persistent like mileage, VIN, etc. and which data points are transient like weather info, lean angle, top speed, etc.

Storage on a motorcycle ECU isn’t unlimited, so I would expect that transient data like speed, etc. is limited in terms of how much is stored for how long. Whether that is accessible without dedicated software tools or not may present additional challenges for access.

So if the question is whether your bikes data logging can be used against you in a court of law, the answer is that it’s gonna take a lot longer to perform the data analysis, it’s going to cost a pile of money, if possible at all and even with all that, it still may not be possible to equate a given top speed with any specific location.

“Your honor, the defendant may have been at a track day when that 127mph event was recorded.”

It’s still cheaper to use a laser or radar beam and the probability of a solid conviction will be higher because the riders speed was directly observed.

I hope that’s helpful.

 

[tsconver]

I guess my question is, is it the app on the NAV that is holding that speed number or is it in the bike's ECU?

I no longer use a a BMW NAV so I no longer have the app. I have to say I wish I could get that app onto my XT as it was handy.

I am not sure but if it is held in the ECU maybe a GS-911 or MotoScan can somehow retrieve it.

That said most accidents I have seen use skid marks, or lack of to determine aprox. speed. You would think if they could pull speed from a vehicle they would be doing that in prosecuting people. I have never seen it written that at the time of the accident the data of the car indicated a speed of 100 MPH. Maybe a legal thing?

You don't need a garmin Nav to see the data, you can get it via the connected app on your phone and using it to track rides. I think that is the only way to see all the data.

 

[strataj]

A NAV 6 or my Zumo XT records top speed, you can delete but that's not effective as it does display until deleted. A way around this is take the GPS with you when you fly, and don't delete it. 500 MPH is very impressive isn't .

 

[kbasa]

A NAV 6 or my Zumo XT records top speed, you can delete but that's not effective as it does display until deleted. A way around this is take the GPS with you when you fly, and don't delete it. 500 MPH is very impressive isn't .

I believe that might require a search warrant, just like they'd need to make you open your phone. If you get pulled over, turn your GPS off and they will not have any visibility to your history. Or, remove top speed from the configurable information pane, if your GPS is so equipped.

Again, it seems like a tough way to write a speeding ticket. If they're in a position to ask to see your GPS, it sounds like they already have prima facie evidence of speeding and don't need anything further to complete their stop.

We seem to have plenty of LEOs and former LEOs around here, so maybe they can lend some insight. Is your GPS being searched in a roadside stop even a thing that happens? If so, under what circumstances and what reasoning?

 

[LFarling]

You don't need a garmin Nav to see the data, you can get it via the connected app on your phone and using it to track rides. I think that is the only way to see all the data.

Need to have a look at that. Thank you for the tip. I think you need a TFT equipped bike?

At any rate a lot of info here from some people that do it for a living.

The Tiger Woods incident would make sense as it was high profile and lots of money.

And while I know we read our bikes information from MotoScan and GS-911 I did wonder what is held, and for how long.

If Tesla and BMW can enable or disable features based on payments, it does not surprise me that in higher end, and newer cars, they hold more information for longer.

 

[tepeterson7848]

It does. I can access it via my Nav V screen.

Can you tell us how or what path to take through the menu?

 

[BC1100S]

Can you tell us how or what path to take through the menu?

To access, simply scroll through the various screens clicking (not rolling) through with the wonderwheel. I get a data page which displays tire pressures, engine temp, ambient temp, fuel use average, fuel use current, range and much more. Including top speed, in my case on my last ride - 178 km/h.

"Guilty, your honour".

 

[lee]

Can you tell us how or what path to take through the menu?

Bump the wonder wheel one time to the left to display the date screen.
That screen can display up to 16 values and you can decide which values to display.

 

[SteveAikens]

But the accident investigation team can access it I think.

Correct. However, Officers do not have the authority in a common traffic stop to require you to give them access to the data from your bike/GPS without a warrant - at least that is the case in NM.

 

[tepeterson7848]

To access, simply scroll through the various screens clicking (not rolling) through with the wonderwheel. I get a data page which displays tire pressures, engine temp, ambient temp, fuel use average, fuel use current, range and much more. Including top speed, in my case on my last ride - 178 km/h.

"Guilty, your honour".

My goodness, this is hard... On my screen, I find what you are describing but the speed portion states it is an average.

 

[BC1100S]

My goodness, this is hard... On my screen, I find what you are describing but the speed portion states it is an average.

Go into your settings. It's right there when you turn on the device. There are a variety of options from which to choose. Take a few minutes to experiment and see what the results are. Don't worry, you won't break it.

 

[talmadge_w]

Had a quick look on vehicleprivacyreport.com . Their service is pretty limited on bikes - did recognize my model based on VIN and the lack of telematics but otherwise just returned BMW privacy policy and T&C. Also missing the process to wipe the data which they normally provide for autos. A bike with full telematics they may provide more data?

 

[lee]

My goodness, this is hard... On my screen, I find what you are describing but the speed portion states it is an average.

Are you looking at the TFT on your 2022 or the Nav V screen ?

 

[tepeterson7848]

Are you looking at the TFT on your 2022 or the Nav V screen ?

I'm looking at the TFT - I don't have a NAV V.

I also read the manual (!!!!) and found references to short and long presses of buttons so I will investigate that today.