Moly lube for spline shafts?

[globalrider]

I bought a tube of Castrol Optimoly TA from MaxBMW last year.

Link to it?

Got the part number: 18 21 9 062 599

I do not know where people like MAX BMW and some others get that it is a Moly. MAX BMW calls it "Optimoly Paste TA". BTW, $21.99 is a good price compared to what I paid at Pelican Parts.
The tubes say Optimol Paste TA.

 

[globalrider]

I found it interesting that neither the Castrol product description nor the MSDS sheet show molybdenum as an ingredient, though it does contain graphite.

The "Optimol" could just be a name and does not necessarily refer to it having Molybdenum disulfide (or moly) MoS2. Usually stuff like that is pitch black like Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive.

It does say it is for "Light metal/steel friction surfaces".

This is what I got at Pelican Parts.

 

[pglaves]

I will repeat an earlier comment. To be called a Moly grease the product is supposed to have a little moly - 3% minimum I think but lost my source. However, I am sure that to be called a moly paste a product must contain 50% moly by volume. And most moly pastes are in an oil carrier, not grease. Honda Moly 60 for example was 60% powdered moly in a petroleum oil carrier.

 

[globalrider]

Honda Moly 60 for example was 60% powdered moly in a petroleum oil carrier.

Molykote M77, same thing. 77% moly.

GENUINE DOW CORNING MOLYKOTE M77 Solid Lubricant Paste with Silicone Carrier Oil.
Consists of polyphenylmethyl siloxane (silicone base) oil, lithium stearate, and molybdenum disulphide (MoS2, "moly"), plus a few percent of a secret "vendor proprietary ingredient".

I got a free sample from Dow Corning. Talk about thick and black.

 

[craigjv4]

I'm going to buy a few ounces of fine, powdered moly and make my own paste. Should be easy enough to mix it to what ever ratio I want by volume.

 

[pglaves]

I'm going to buy a few ounces of fine, powdered moly and make my own paste. Should be easy enough to mix it to what ever ratio I want by volume.

If so, for splines I recommend a 25% to 30% volume of moly in a heavy water proof marine or wheel bearing grease.

 

[craigjv4]

If so, for splines I recommend a 25% to 30% volume of moly in a heavy water proof marine or wheel bearing grease.

Thanks.

That's exactly what I will use - I have both, marine and heavy wheel bearing grease.

The TS-60 spline lube uses an NLGI grade #2 so it's not as high a viscosity as I thought.

 

[pglaves]

Thanks.



The TS-60 spline lube uses an NLGI grade #2 so it's not as high a viscosity as I thought.

Take a look at GD-525 on the TS Moly web site.

 

[craigjv4]

Yes, the GD-525 looks very thick (seeing their photo) but we know it's discontinued.
TS Moly recommends TS-60 from the Beemershop.
Here is the spec sheet:

 

[craigjv4]

Homemade moly paste/grease/gooey stuff. Just added powdered moly to extreme pressure moly grease. Probably enough in this little container for at least 20 lube jobs (probably far more!). It was so thick, I had to use the weird wrench I found in my tool chest to stir it.

I first burnished the dry moly powder into the clean and dry splines and then brushed in the moly past/grease/gooey stuff.

 

[Omega Man]

Homemade moly paste/grease/gooey stuff. Just added powdered moly to extreme pressure moly grease. Probably enough in this little container for at least 20 lube jobs (probably far more!). It was so thick, I had to use the weird wrench I found in my tool chest to stir it.

I first burnished the dry moly powder into the clean and dry splines and then brushed in the moly past/grease/gooey stuff.

View attachment 77726

Just for the halibut, I would put some on a 3/4” bolt and nut and set it aside. Every now and then you can run the nut up and down the threads allowing you to check it and see how the mixture is “holding up” due to age.
Let us know if you can.
OM

 

[craigjv4]

Just for the halibut, I would put some on a 3/4” bolt and nut and set it aside. Every now and then you can run the nut up and down the threads allowing you to check it and see how the mixture is “holding up” due to age.
Let us know if you can.
OM

Good idea. I'll do that tomorrow. The partial can of grease I used was at least 8 years old; probably more. There was basically no separation evident; no oil was on the bottom of the can. It actually took some time to stir the moly powder into the grease. Took some effort too which is why I used the wrench handle. I think using something like a popsicle stick would have broken due to the stiffness of the mixture.

 

[Omega Man]

Good idea. I'll do that tomorrow. The partial can of grease I used was at least 8 years old; probably more. There was basically no separation evident; no oil was on the bottom of the can. It actually took some time to stir the moly powder into the grease. Took some effort too which is why I used the wrench handle. I think using something like a popsicle stick would have broken due to the stiffness of the mixture.

I only mention it due to some of my misfortunes with grease.....and what I thought they were supposed to do. Tough to monitor grease in a lot of applications
OM

 

[dcole]

Honda M77 Assembly Paste

Honda M77 is of the best Moly Pastes on the market. I use it on my 2011 RT after being recommended by a BMW dealer in Denver. You can get it on Amazon for les than $18.

 

[craigjv4]

The TS-90 gear oil additive is intended to be used as a 10% additive to transmissions and final drives.

Since we also talked about gear oil additives...

Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive was recommended by Oak some 30 years ago.

I've always used it at 5% on all of my single-sided final drives (R100GS, R1150GS) and they have been trouble-free since the early 90s with zilch on the drain plug between changes.

I started using Gear Guard after advice from Oak in 1982 or '83..

Reading the above, would this be an acceptable final drive gear oil additive? I thought adding moly to roller/ball bearings is a bad idea? The bearings skid instead of roll. I'm sure moly is good for the bevel gears though.

 

[pglaves]

Reading the above, would this be an acceptable final drive gear oil additive? I thought adding moly to roller/ball bearings is a bad idea? The bearings skid instead of roll. I'm sure moly is good for the bevel gears though.

View attachment 77915

Yes it would be suitable. I have used a moly gear oil additive in every final drive and gear oil lubricated transmission on our bikes since Oak suggested it to me in 1984 or '85. That includes Voni's R1100RS with 412,000 miles.

As far as I know a moly additive in the proper concentration is not harmful to bearings. What is harmful to bearings is using gear oil that is too thick - ie too high a viscosity. The oil will wedge out ahead of the balls leaving insufficient lubricant between the balls and the races.

 

[globalrider]

I thought adding moly to roller/ball bearings is a bad idea? The bearings skid instead of roll.

From what I remember and maybe I am wrong, Oak is a trained BMW technician as well as a materials engineer.

The Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive as per their data sheet is to be used with non-synthetic gear lube which has never been an issue for me as I mixed it with Bel-Ray Gear Saver Hypoid Gear Oil 90 (now discontinued) and now Bel-Ray Gear Saver Hypoid Gear Oil 80W-90. I use them in my R100 GS and R1150 GS Adventure. As for my 2016 R1200 GSA LC, when I was on warranty, I used the BMW spec final drive lube...I do not need a manufacturer to start pointing fingers as to why something has failed.

When not loaded, bearings can skid, which is why they use a Belleville washer to load the angular contact bearings in my car's distributor. Not the case in my final drives on my GSes. When you stated "I thought", one has to careful; The Internet is the largest source of unconfirmed information. lol

By the way, as Paul stated, a thicker oil does not protect things better. I have read that advice on forums for years.

 

[globalrider]

I was doing some searching the other week for a replacement to the BMW Final Drive Gear Lube which is crazy expensive and came across this along with both BMW spec numbers.

The European part number is 1024 and supposedly not available here. I emailed the Canadian distributor and they might consider bringing it in.



View attachment Fully Synthetic Hypoid Gear Oil (GL4_5) 75W-90 - Oils.pdf

 

[craigjv4]

Yes it would be suitable. I have used a moly gear oil additive in every final drive and gear oil lubricated transmission on our bikes since Oak suggested it to me in 1984 or '85. That includes Voni's R1100RS with 412,000 miles.

As far as I know a moly additive in the proper concentration is not harmful to bearings. What is harmful to bearings is using gear oil that is too thick - ie too high a viscosity. The oil will wedge out ahead of the balls leaving insufficient lubricant between the balls and the races.

From what I remember and maybe I am wrong, Oak is a trained BMW technician as well as a materials engineer.

The Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive as per their data sheet is to be used with non-synthetic gear lube which has never been an issue for me as I mixed it with Bel-Ray Gear Saver Hypoid Gear Oil 90 (now discontinued) and now Bel-Ray Gear Saver Hypoid Gear Oil 80W-90. I use them in my R100 GS and R1150 GS Adventure. As for my 2016 R1200 GSA LC, when I was on warranty, I used the BMW spec final drive lube...I do not need a manufacturer to start pointing fingers as to why something has failed.

When not loaded, bearings can skid, which is why they use a Belleville washer to load the angular contact bearings in my car's distributor. Not the case in my final drives on my GSes. When you stated "I thought", one has to careful; The Internet is the largest source of unconfirmed information. lol

By the way, as Paul stated, a thicker oil does not protect things better. I have read that advice on forums for years.

I was doing some searching the other week for a replacement to the BMW Final Drive Gear Lube which is crazy expensive and came across this along with both BMW spec numbers.

The European part number is 1024 and supposedly not available here. I emailed the Canadian distributor and they might consider bringing it in.

Thanks Gents. I'll add a percentage of this moly gear lube to my final drive oil. I'll continue to use the BMW gear lube and add this.

Global, just look for the Liqui Moly products on Amazon. Plenty of European sellers there and many will ship for free. This is where I bought this tube of moly gear lube - about 9 bucks with free shipping.

 

[oldcamper]

Why should these splines ever need to be re-lubed at all?
Just about every manual transmission car or truck ever made has similar splines in similar places and they never need maintenance.
Time for a design change maybe?