It is chump change...but it is a clear and easily-accessible example of the phenomena we're discussing.
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?Let those who pay have a say.??
- Thread starter miairhead
- Start date
It is chump change...but it is a clear and easily-accessible example of the phenomena we're discussing.
As few bikes as are seen even at the height of riding season, it's hard to imagine that there are enough of these riders ending up in a vegetative or permanent disability condition because of helmetless riding, gasp, so that all of our insurance rates would be unaffordable. Controlling the BM index would yield a much bigger reduction health related maladies.
Motorcycling is an easy target for those who neither understand it, nor give a ding dong about it.
Motorcycling is an easy target for those who neither understand it, nor give a ding dong about it.
Bud
It is what it is.
What they said he said!
classicvw
Well-known member
My wife is a case manager at a large rehab hospital. You may be surprised as to how many times she comes home and says she has another M/C crash patient.
AKsuited
New member
Watch the film clip in this thread: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?70934-Why-I-Ride
Notice how wonderful that white Arai full-face is in making that rider more visible. The debate about helmets often misses this important point: a white full-face helmet enhances a rider's visibility to other motorists, and this is true all the time. So a helmet can be used all the time, to enhance visibility and reduce your chance of being in a wreck, and not just when you crash.
Harry
Notice how wonderful that white Arai full-face is in making that rider more visible. The debate about helmets often misses this important point: a white full-face helmet enhances a rider's visibility to other motorists, and this is true all the time. So a helmet can be used all the time, to enhance visibility and reduce your chance of being in a wreck, and not just when you crash.
Harry
What I am afraid of as they push for more required helmet laws is this: What is the next step?
When someone decides that motorcycles are too unsafe, and that the "insurance" & "medical" costs are being spread out to others, perhaps a law limiting motorcycle riding altogether?
It could happen.
For me, even though I ALWAYS use a helmet, even when riding in the driveway, I will do what I can to fight any law requiring a helmet.
It isn't just education, it is one's personal concern for him/herself and for those around him/her. When we care about ourselves and others, we act differently.
That's because she works in a "focal point" location for MC crash people. I worked in JUVY with "messed up kids" but most kids are great kids not in JUVY! Go figure.
To state that ER costs are chump change is to me a bit frightening? I suggest that the costs are staggeringly high in my way of counting. The human carnage that results from out hwys & drug abuse & gangsta types is costly in both ways of counting, i.e.,money & lives!!!
I get it that MC's account for a small piece of that activity but ER's are churning with action & hardly cheap to operate ! At our son's recent wedding I was well entertained by one of his old friends that's a Boston area ER doc.
I'm not worried that MC's will be outlawed anytime soon. I can list lots of dangerous activities beside MC riding.Are we going to outlaw cheerleading? Causes lots of injuries too. Helmet laws don't bother me in the least. "Spreading costs is here & now-I think they call them actuaries, the people that decide how much & where to charge?The next step? Our lawmakers take most steps so slowly we ask if they work at all, not if they work too hard.
greenwald
New member
arthurdent
New member
Two things to point out:
1. Your home state rule applies WRT helmets. If your home state requires one and you have a wreck in a state that does not, your insurer is not obligated to pay anything if you weren't wearing.
2. Your health care coverage generally has a substantial exclusion on injuries sustained in a MC wreck or other vehicle wreck - they expect your insurance on that device to cover the first $5k of your medical expenses. Most MC insurance doesn't include a medical provision unless specified and paid for in your premiums.
It will be interesting in the near future to hear of personal stories of motorcycle injuries covered by Medicaid/Medicare. I'm not aware of "risky" behavior clauses buried in these laws.
Great topic for retirerees still riding, who/what is covered, have we already moved into an area of coverage where only the well healed can afford it. Riding wouldn't be banned, but culled by enormous costs to the riders not well healed. Tricky how this stuff finally comes out in the wash. And, for those scared of motorcyclists, no more nuts riding in sneakers with loud pipes, and no helmet. Perfect?
Great topic for retirerees still riding, who/what is covered, have we already moved into an area of coverage where only the well healed can afford it. Riding wouldn't be banned, but culled by enormous costs to the riders not well healed. Tricky how this stuff finally comes out in the wash. And, for those scared of motorcyclists, no more nuts riding in sneakers with loud pipes, and no helmet. Perfect?
braddog
Minnesota Nice!
That's because she works in a "focal point" location for MC crash people. I worked in JUVY with "messed up kids" but most kids are great kids not in JUVY! Go figure.
To state that ER costs are chump change is to me a bit frightening? I suggest that the costs are staggeringly high in my way of counting. The human carnage that results from out hwys & drug abuse & gangsta types is costly in both ways of counting, i.e.,money & lives!!!
I get it that MC's account for a small piece of that activity but ER's are churning with action & hardly cheap to operate ! At our son's recent wedding I was well entertained by one of his old friends that's a Boston area ER doc.
I'm not worried that MC's will be outlawed anytime soon. I can list lots of dangerous activities beside MC riding.Are we going to outlaw cheerleading? Causes lots of injuries too. Helmet laws don't bother me in the least. "Spreading costs is here & now-I think they call them actuaries, the people that decide how much & where to charge?The next step? Our lawmakers take most steps so slowly we ask if they work at all, not if they work too hard.
That's a good point. There aren't many ER doctors or nurses that are motorcycle fans. I guess I can understand why.
I suspect this is no longer true for plans issued under the ACA (which will be all plans within the next couple of years, as the "grandfathered" plans trickle away).
In any case, a $5000 exclusion is a pittance in terms of post-crash medical expenses if any substantial injury occurs. (Would that even cover a broken arm?)
I share an office with one. His GS is much nicer than my RT.
Sure see a lot of bikes in ER doctor parking lots around here, a buddies wife is an ER Nurse and still accepts her husbands passion about bikes.
I met a StarFlight pilot/EMT at the local BMW dealer in Austin about six months after he blew my RT over while landing to transport my Sis-in-law after she met a wet cattleguard in a turn...he said he really hated seeing the barbwire fence meet my RT...I told him in the big picture of that day,not a big deal, it made interesting commentary when folks asked where all the scratches came from on my windshield...I told them a helicopter
( should have had my bike pointing towards the LZ and on the centerstand...oops. wrong thread) He rides and is a trauma scene regular.On the insurance angle...folks will tell their carrier whatever they need to get a better rate...who would police the clothing/ATGATT issue?Unless the insurance company wants the items worn to the ER, which seems a bit much to me.
I have worn helmets/not worn helmets, always had some form of coverage.Our state law has gone back and forth...now only if you are younger than 18 I believe. You used to be asked to get a$25 sticker to put on your plate assuring folks you had 20K in coverage...who checked? I got one, but wore a helmet(not a beanie, anyways)
Helmets have come so far in weight/technology that I feel safer in one now than I did wearing a late 60's Bell that weighed more than my 16 year old 145 lb teen self flying down the beach...my head always seemed to lead when I dismounted
That thing must have saved me a few times...I'm still here
But after all of that...what folks said what Paul said. Only personal experience will change attitudes...sometimes a little late. Crowd mentality plays a large role...y'all already knew that.That guy trying to occupy your space in a parade formation doesn't give a flip for you...isn't cool to do so.
And what was the year/reason US automakers quit making convertibles? Unsafe? , they sure are everywhere again now. And I don't think twice about seatbelts. After rolling my Jeep off the highway and down a hill in 85, I too already knew that and was glad I had it on.
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
I worked as an insurance adjuster over 31 years and never read that in any insurance policy. I was hit in the read on July 1 of this year and the insurance paid the emergency room bill without any questions.
YOU were hit and YOUR insurance company paid the medical????
I would think that the person who hit you's insurance would be liable.
ricochetrider
Out There Somewhere
RE: insurance:
I've always hated insurance and being forced into something based on empty "what ifs". Tho I still don't have health insurance, I'm insured to the hilt now, in every other regard.
Insurance costs are astronomical, and the rates aren't getting any cheaper. In fact, they just keep going up and up. I can't state facts, but I'm pretty sure we pay so much for health and motor vehicle insurance due to the general bad habits of others. I don't appreciate having to pay outrageous amounts for insurance, on account of everyone else's bad behavior, same as I was pretty PO'd recently to see that an airline ticket to Rome near the Easter weekend was over 3,000.00, when any other time of year, it costs around 900.00-1500.00- and I'm not trying to go there for any reason connected to religion.
Far as I can see there's prescious little I can do about either situation. Guess it's too darn bad. What is, is.
RE: helmets:
Honestly, it's not so much that I don't care whether anyone wears one or not- as it is that I believe folks should make their own choices.
Then again, I believe we are all (or should all be) responsible for our own actions. So, yeah- somebody above asked "where does it end", yet the real point may well be, where does it begin? Life is a circle bisected by some mighty fine lines.
While I don't know much, I do know this:
It's a straight, hard line to self righteousness, and I hope to catch myself as often as possible when I start to become "that guy". I mean, it's pretty easy to sit around and talk about what other people should or shouldn't be doing. In the end, all we as individuals can effectively do- as Paul, I believe, suggested, is to lead by example.
I approve this message!
I've always hated insurance and being forced into something based on empty "what ifs". Tho I still don't have health insurance, I'm insured to the hilt now, in every other regard.
Insurance costs are astronomical, and the rates aren't getting any cheaper. In fact, they just keep going up and up. I can't state facts, but I'm pretty sure we pay so much for health and motor vehicle insurance due to the general bad habits of others. I don't appreciate having to pay outrageous amounts for insurance, on account of everyone else's bad behavior, same as I was pretty PO'd recently to see that an airline ticket to Rome near the Easter weekend was over 3,000.00, when any other time of year, it costs around 900.00-1500.00- and I'm not trying to go there for any reason connected to religion.
Far as I can see there's prescious little I can do about either situation. Guess it's too darn bad. What is, is.
RE: helmets:
Honestly, it's not so much that I don't care whether anyone wears one or not- as it is that I believe folks should make their own choices.
Then again, I believe we are all (or should all be) responsible for our own actions. So, yeah- somebody above asked "where does it end", yet the real point may well be, where does it begin? Life is a circle bisected by some mighty fine lines.
While I don't know much, I do know this:
It's a straight, hard line to self righteousness, and I hope to catch myself as often as possible when I start to become "that guy". I mean, it's pretty easy to sit around and talk about what other people should or shouldn't be doing. In the end, all we as individuals can effectively do- as Paul, I believe, suggested, is to lead by example.
I approve this message!
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