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?Let those who pay have a say.??

miairhead

New member
It might be an odd time of year to debate the value of motorcycle helmets, but a new story and a study have prompted a handful of letters on the topic to The Gazette in recent days.

The first came from Rex Fritschi of Elkhorn. His letter cited a story in The Economist. That publication interviewed Dr. Lori Terryberry-Spohr from Madonna Rehabilitation Hospital in Lincoln, Neb. She said that while Nebraska requires helmets, neighboring Iowa, Kansas and South Dakota do not and hospital officials usually can guess which patients aren't from Nebraska. She says victims of motorcycle accidents who weren't wearing helmets typically run up $1.3 million in direct medical costs and that fewer than one-third of them ever work again.

The story also says ?a study of helmet-shunning bikers admitted to one large hospital, cited by the Centers for Disease Control, found that taxpayers paid for 63 percent of their care."

The story says libertarians often demand: ?Let those who ride decide.? This retort came from Jacqueline Gillan, who heads Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, an insurer-funded lobby group: ?Let those who pay have a say.?

I've received three letters in response to Fritschi's, all supporting motorcyclists' right to choose. We printed two, but I rejected one out of concern for accuracy. It claimed 40 percent of motorcyclists were ?unendorsed? and that the state has too few personnel to help those riders wanting endorsements.

I rejected that letter after speaking with Jim Miller, the state Department of Transportation's deputy director of the bureau of field services.

Miller says an ?endorsed? biker is one who has a license to ride or has a learner's permit.

Instead of more than 40 percent of motorcyclists being unendorsed, Miller says state statistics do show that almost 43 percent of fatalities involving motorcyclists were unendorsed last year. Those fatalities, however, include anyone involved in a crash involving a motorcycle. Those victims could be people riding with motorcycle operators or drivers of autos that were involved in accidents with motorcycles.

Miller also says he heard of only one complaint this year about lack of personnel available when someone was seeking an endorsement. That, he says, occurred in March, before the state offered endorsements, a season generally running April through October.

Regardless, the debate is on. ?The focus should be on crash avoidance, not safer crashing,? Jeff Egler of Edgerton reasoned in a letter responding to Fritschi's. ?Contrary to what many believe, a helmet is not a cure for fatalities and injuries.?

What's your take? Should the state, as Fritschi suggests, join others that require helmets because of costs to society and taxpayers for ongoing care of motorcyclists who suffer brain damage after crashing without helmets? Or should Wisconsin, home to Harley-Davidson, keep letting riders choose whether to use helmets, which bikers argue can be stiflingly hot and limit hearing and vision?
 
I've reached the point I don'r care. I always wear a helmet - even just moving a bike to the carport. And every year or so we/they pick up a rider or two on the river road with head injuries that would have been avoided with a helmet.

That said, I have given up. The pirates are not going to wear helmets unless forced to do so, and then they buy $29 dollar silly things and complain that helmets are uncomfortable. Of course they are. Those $29 Nazi replicas were never intended to be protective. And the fake DOT stickers are all over the Internet.

So, I quit caring.

I wouldn't object to a helmet law, but wouldn't beat my brains out trying to get one either. At this point all I am willing to do is lead by example. Laugh at my helmet and Aerostich all you want.

Remeber, those guys dress like pirates and we dress like armadillos.

Take your pick.
 
I wish the insurance companies would tie their rates to wearing a helmet. If you want to go bare headed pay for it. They adjust rates with with smokers, airbags, driver training, teenagers. Accident avoidance only works to a point, some you get no warning. I've heard the most obscure, idiotic and weird arguments against helmets, yet are considered gospel by the masses. Go figure. Politicians are out to get re-elected, not necessarily look for the logical answer.
 
Just make them sign up as organ donors, there is a shortage after all. Charge them if they don't.

Nearby Myrtle Beach is in the land of the loonies and only a few sport bike and BMW riders wear helmets there- its very rare to see a Harley rider with one on. And a few times every summer one of those unhelmeted ones dies from a head injury in a relatively low speed crash. Something I find funny is that there have been firefighters and cops in those fatalities- those guys ought to know better with the training they have.

Been using mine since long before there were helmet laws after witnessing a helmeted racer survive a crash that would surely have been fatal otherwise- bounced his head off a tree at high speed during a TT race. The ruffed grouse I hit one day provided a reminder I didn't need.

Obamacare will force many of them to carry at least a bit of insurance to defray some of the taxpayer costs. Its a safe bet that many of those without helmets are also now uninsured if they have to buy their own rather than getting from an employer.
 
I wish the insurance companies would tie their rates to wearing a helmet. If you want to go bare headed pay for it. They adjust rates with with smokers, airbags, driver training, teenagers. Accident avoidance only works to a point, some you get no warning. I've heard the most obscure, idiotic and weird arguments against helmets, yet are considered gospel by the masses. Go figure. Politicians are out to get re-elected, not necessarily look for the logical answer.

I've often thought this would be a good move, though I don't understand why these bikers protesting helmet laws have no problem fastening their seatbelts.

Like Paul, however, I think nothing will change unless it's legislated...and then the pirates will howl about being singled out and victimized, etc, etc. Whatever! I'll continue wearing proper gear to give myself a better chance of surviving a crash as a sentient being.
 
As the modern day Hollywood philosopher forest Gump said "Stupid is as stupid does" Education will help some, but training all drivers/riders would help more, IMHO. As far as pay as you go, where would that end??? Eat crappy food and don't exercise here is your bill, ride a Motorcycle, when a car would have been safer, here is your bill, parents give you crappy genes, bill them.

Guess we all should eat salads and stay in our houses, running on treadmills, to mitigate our risk or pay up. Truth is we all pay, one way or another. Heck we even pay millions to rescue cruise ships that are owned by companies that pay no taxes on billions in profits.

Yup, I agree with Paul too, I don't G.A.S. anymore as as much as you try, change will not happen.
 
I wish the insurance companies would tie their rates to wearing a helmet. If you want to go bare headed pay for it. They adjust rates with with smokers, airbags, driver training, teenagers. Accident avoidance only works to a point, some you get no warning. I've heard the most obscure, idiotic and weird arguments against helmets, yet are considered gospel by the masses. Go figure. Politicians are out to get re-elected, not necessarily look for the logical answer.

The "adjust rates with" statement above is sometimes true & oftentimes not & changing in the USA via you know what. I hear much about new insurance policies from the insurance law called Obamacare, what with forcing males to have pregnancy coverage & on & on-I was covered for many years of guvmint work via state group policies that featured all kinds of stuff I'd never use & even more not covered that we all need. Insurance as a topic here is headed for disaster,period! It was screwed up in the past & getting more screwed up!
Paul G. laments what he describes as his passive current approach for him but the "lead by example" as he & we other helmet wearers demonstrate when riding is an important thing and not to be given short shrift. Do whats right,lead by example & others (at least some of them) will follow...
Politicians are only going to lead with what keeps their spot. It becomes harder & harder for me to "find one" that I can like!
 
I wish the insurance companies would tie their rates to wearing a helmet. If you want to go bare headed pay for it. They adjust rates with with smokers, airbags, driver training, teenagers. Accident avoidance only works to a point, some you get no warning. I've heard the most obscure, idiotic and weird arguments against helmets, yet are considered gospel by the masses. Go figure. Politicians are out to get re-elected, not necessarily look for the logical answer.

Great wisdom in this post - insightful commentary on a volatile issue.

Like Paul, its become increasingly tiresome to summon up the energy to personally fight for the changes that are logical. I and anyone who sits on my bikes will wear a helmet - period.

The only caveat that keeps me from completely throwing in the towel whenever this issue is debated (for me, each and every week I teach a Basic Rider Course!), is the fact that two of my previous insurance agents, as well as an underwriter in my class as a motorcycle student last year, admit that rates for ALL of us reflect the need to collect enough $$$ to stockpile an insurance company's 'war chest' for future payments of brain-injured riders, which represent a disproportionate % of injuries among all road users. They also pointed out that federal funds in the form of Medicare/Disability assistance also get chewed up by this demographic - more of your dollars.

In other words, while I'd like to "care less," the reckless behavior of others costs me money. Dang.

It's not about a desire for universal enforcement - that will never happen. But states could wipe every helmet law off the books tomorrow, if all motorcyclists crashing without a helmet got slammed by their insurance company and their ER visit and rehabilitation/nursing home care was absolutely not on my dime. :deal
 
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That's quite a slippery slope. While I am always wearing a helmet, I used to be against mandatory helmet wearing laws. Especially while I was regularly riding a product from the "Motor Company". We do not have a helmet law in Ohio. As you can imagine, there is a large rider community always very outspoken against helmet laws. Mainly from the HD faction. And many of them that I know, are cops.:blush Because of us being part of the BMW community for quite a while now, wearing a helmet is not something that is even been discussed. We all wear one. So I really don't know what my position now is, but I tend to think Paul summed it up very nicely:bow
 
I've reached the point I don'r care...

I agree with Paul's sentiment entirely. However, instead of saying "I don't care" I word it differently. I say "I no longer get involved in that discussion" (and yet, here I am commenting <grin>). I still care that fellow riders do dumb things and get hurt/killed unnecessarily, but I have decided to not get involved in the issue. There are too many other things I choose to think/worry about ... like whether to switch to LEDs vice HIDs.
 
Interestingly, I've found the Ural community is generally pro-helmet, but then many of us also own BMW's and are grumpy old farts!
 
Never argue with children............

Paul is sadly correct.

35634 may have a point, but I doubt that he'll be as cavalier when his health insurance starts to place premiums on tobacco use and body mass index. Just look at the controversy that was spawned by the thread on Saskatchewan's use of telemetrics to set MC insurance rates.

Americans love the idea of personal responsibility when we're talking about our neighbors.......... Otherwise, we just demand a god-given right to do whatever we darn well please.
 
From childhood the mere sight of a motorcyclist riding the road inspired individualism and personal freedom. Eventually got my bike and reveled in the experience, within reasonable personal/individual caution and common sense. As the years rolled by the social creep of diminishing common sense coupled with more law has made riding less enjoyable. I.e. Getting tailed by Leo while on my old R90 last summer, under the speed limit, likely for a plate check? Thanks to that Leo we were all made much safer?

Helmets, always wear one today, but, as more of our personal decisions are absorbed by overseers, motorcycling in general will become, as many other activities viewed as part of our "common welfare", less enjoyable. The stupid need overseeing, BMW riders are not stupid, IMHO. Maybe LEO stupid patrols are needed? Not dragnets for all bikers?
 
Many of you look at the rational approach and think that "education" will make more people wear helmets. You may not have experienced the common sentiment regarding helmets in the crowd who do not wear one.
It is about the "cool factor". There are many "smart" and usually "educated" and "reasonable" people who don't wear protective gear. It just doesn't look good, if you ride a stretched, 45 degree raked custom, with a 2 gallon tank, 240 rear tire and a $5,000 paint job.
It makes much better picture with a cup of mousse in your hair and wrap-around sunglasses.
 
True story. Riding arranged with a couple of guys for the day. They rode HDs. (No insult to bike or riders) They had no helmets, no ATGATT. They rode about 45 minutes. Stopped at bar for a beer. Hot day. Rode another 45 minutes or so. Stopped at bar for beer. They rode on from there with each other. Who were they? Men who drive ambulances which pick up victims of accidents. If they don't know to wear proper gear and ride sober, then what hope is there?
 
Americans love the idea of personal responsibility when we're talking about our neighbors.......... Otherwise, we just demand a god-given right to do whatever we darn well please.

We assert personal responsibility and he right to do as we please, but we actually behave quite differently by demanding to be supported by the public purse. Imagine the outcry if closing all hospital emergency rooms were proposed.
 
We assert personal responsibility and he right to do as we please, but we actually behave quite differently by demanding to be supported by the public purse. Imagine the outcry if closing all hospital emergency rooms were proposed.

The emergency room, the rehab hospital, the SS disability, the SS benefits for the kids, eventually the medicaid benefits when the insurance is max-ed out........

The ER bill is chump change.......
 
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