Is it safe to tour in the States?

[akbeemer]

I lived in Toronto for almost a year while attending the Canadian Forces Command and Staff Course. There were 56 homicides in the city that year, 55 were solved and the great majority were domestic violence. There was great discussion in the local media about the high number of murders. The lesson I learned was if you want to be safe from murder then move to Toronto; just don’t take your spouse.

That being said, I was the victim I’m violent crime only once and that was in Toronto at a Blue Jays game. Actually about 30 minutes before the game by a group of teenagers.

 

[shortythorne]

That being said, I was the victim I’m violent crime only once and that was in Toronto at a Blue Jays game. Actually about 30 minutes before the game by a group of teenagers.

Well don't leave us hanging....details needed.

 

[36654]

Although I have no problem touring anywhere in North America, excluding Mexico, I do understand some folks uneasiness given today's statistics.

Homicide Rate Statistics as of November 22, 2017

Chicago - 781
New York – 335
Baltimore – 318
Detroit – 301
Los Angeles – 294
Toronto – 73
Montreal – 23

Canada - 1.69 victims per 100,000 population.
USA - 5.4 victims per 100,000 population

Having said that, I have never found any nice curvy roads within major cities so why would one go there anyway? Please, no hateful comments. I love the USA and I love Canada. It is just certain people that are hard to love.

Those are homicide statistics, not rates, for cities. Using rates, Homicides per 100,000 populace, Chicago, NYC, LA wouldn't have appeared on your list of US cities. Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cleveland, Memphis, etc are the cities with the highest rates.

 

[BlueWaterCooled]

Although I have no problem touring anywhere in North America, excluding Mexico, I do understand some folks uneasiness given today's statistics.
…

I would never try to tell anyone where they should feel safe or not safe, but I will comment that, in excluding Mexico, one is missing some of the best riding in the world. The US has 797 cars per 1000 people. In Mexico that number is 275 cars per 1000 people. That means the roads are mostly empty. Mexico is full of winding mountain roads completely devoid of traffic. The only time you see that in the US is in car commercials. In cities, Mexico drivers are crazy like in many cities in the world, but on the highway they are extremely considerate. They keep to the right and expect others to do the same. Trucks tell you when it is safe to pass. And, no I do not work for a Mexican tourist bureau

 

[BC1100S]

That being said, I was the victim I’m violent crime only once and that was in Toronto at a Blue Jays game. Actually about 30 minutes before the game by a group of teenagers.

I'm betting you're a Yankees fan.

 

[BC1100S]

Those are homicide statistics, not rates, for cities. Using rates, Homicides per 100,000 populace, Chicago, NYC, LA wouldn't have appeared on your list of US cities. Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cleveland, Memphis, etc are the cities with the highest rates.

Homicide rates can be misleading. As an example, a city with a population of 100,000 which experiences 3 murders in one year will see their rate jump 33% if there are four murders in the following year. Chicago has a metropolitan population roughly 50% larger than Toronto and twice that of Montreal. Were they equal in population, the number of homicides in Chicago is roughly 10 times that of Toronto. Its numbers like these which prompt people from foreign countries to ask if its safe to travel in the US.

And to restate my previous post, I have no issues whatsoever travelling in the USA. Matter of fact, I'll be in LA in 3 weeks.

 

[beemerdood]

I would never try to tell anyone where they should feel safe or not safe, but I will comment that, in excluding Mexico, one is missing some of the best riding in the world. The US has 797 cars per 1000 people. In Mexico that number is 275 cars per 1000 people. That means the roads are mostly empty. Mexico is full of winding mountain roads completely devoid of traffic. The only time you see that in the US is in car commercials. In cities, Mexico drivers are crazy like in many cities in the world, but on the highway they are extremely considerate. They keep to the right and expect others to do the same. Trucks tell you when it is safe to pass. And, no I do not work for a Mexican tourist bureau

I'll take the word of several of my friends who have gone to Mexico in sail boat races and then put their boats on trailers for the return to the US. They tell me that they've nearly been killed in collisions with large trucks, buses and semis who hog the road both approaching and in overtaking situations. One was run off the road and his boat was totaled. He had several members of his crew were hospitalized. I'll pass on Mexico.

 

[36654]

Homicide rates can be misleading. As an example, a city with a population of 100,000 which experiences 3 murders in one year will see their rate jump 33% if there are four murders in the following year. Chicago has a metropolitan population roughly 50% larger than Toronto and twice that of Montreal. Were they equal in population, the number of homicides in Chicago is roughly 10 times that of Toronto. Its numbers like these which prompt people from foreign countries to ask if its safe to travel in the US.

And to restate my previous post, I have no issues whatsoever travelling in the USA. Matter of fact, I'll be in LA in 3 weeks.

If you only look at one or two years, you're correct. However, in the US, the FBI has been tracking crime since the 1930's and issues annual reports. In the case of Chicago, the 2016 spike returns the city to it's annual homicide levels of the mid 1990's. So, today's visit to Chicago would be as risky as one 20-yrs ago.

Relative to Canada, Winnipeg has 1/3 the murders of Toronto, but with 13% of the population. Accordingly, a visit to Winnipeg has a 2.5x higher chance of a homicide than a visit to Toronto.

Would I visit Winnipeg? Sure. Would I visit Chicago? Considering that the number of murders is nominally the same as when I was there in the 1980 and 1990's.......yep.

 

[BlueWaterCooled]

I'll take the word of several of my friends who have gone to Mexico in sail boat races and then put their boats on trailers for the return to the US. They tell me that they've nearly been killed in collisions with large trucks, buses and semis who hog the road both approaching and in overtaking situations. One was run off the road and his boat was totaled. He had several members of his crew were hospitalized. I'll pass on Mexico.

I don't know what happened to your friends but there are some driving conditions that are different than what you find in other countries. Some of the best highways are two lane with very wide shoulders. It is customary to drive half on the shoulder and half in the lane. Then people pass in both directions on the centerline. Drivers coming up behind you expect you to move over on the shoulder so they can pass. And drivers passing in the opposite direction expect you to move onto the shoulder to give them room. When you first encounter it, it can be disconcerting, but once you get used to it, it works very well. I don't know if that situation had anything to do with the experiences your friends had.

 

[akbeemer]

My sister-in-law retired as a Lieutenant from the Cook County Sheriff’s Department about a year ago. Annie and I rode in to see her once and Annie rode there alone once. We got a detailed briefing on what routes to use, but I never felt threatened and my SIL lives in a nice neighborhood. A careful look at the homicide statistics in Chicago from 2011 would seem to show that if one is white then your odds of being murdered approach what they are in Toronto. 75% of the victims were black, 19% were Hispanic, 4.6% were white; 90% were male; 72% were age 17-35. So a 60 year old white woman riding through Chicago on a BMW during the light of the day is very unlikely to become a homicide victim, unless you count being hit by a Buick.

 

[greenwald]

My sister-in-law retired as a Lieutenant from the Cook County Sheriff’s Department about a year ago. Annie and I rode in to see her once and Annie rode there alone once. We got a detailed briefing on what routes to use, but I never felt threatened and my SIL lives in a nice neighborhood. A careful look at the homicide statistics from 2011 would seem to show that if one is white then your odds of being murdered approach what they are in Toronto. 75% of the victims were black, 19% were Hispanic, 4.6% were white; 90% were male; 72% were age 17-35. So a 60 year old white woman riding through Chicago on a BMW during the light of the day is very unlikely to become a homicide victim, unless you count being hit by a Buick.

And it's always a tan-colored LeSabre!

I'll be both driving and strolling along Chicago's 'magnificent mile' soon for the holidays. I'll be appropriately wary.

Though you were only talking homicides, which seems to be the currency of fear on this forum, I thought your analysis was spot on.

 

[slipstream]

Saddens me to say this, but I'd caution you to be VERY wary of the Law Enforcement Officers here in the U.S. (State Troopers, Sheriff's Deputies, local police). They can do pretty much as they please, and if you're carrying any cash, can legally seize it from you. Avoidance is the best course of action you can take, unfortunately.

 

[akbeemer]

Saddens me to say this, but I'd caution you to be VERY wary of the Law Enforcement Officers here in the U.S. (State Troopers, Sheriff's Deputies, local police). They can do pretty much as they please, and if you're carrying any cash, can legally seize it from you. Avoidance is the best course of action you can take, unfortunately.

I think that is far from accurate.

 

[52184]

Saddens me to say this, but I'd caution you to be VERY wary of the Law Enforcement Officers here in the U.S. (State Troopers, Sheriff's Deputies, local police). They can do pretty much as they please, and if you're carrying any cash, can legally seize it from you. Avoidance is the best course of action you can take, unfortunately.

Odd, with one exception that has never been the case in my 50 years of motorcycling in the US. Naturally, one should avoid actions that are contrary to traffic or other laws. And even when I’ve had roadside encounters with LEOs in various states, they have almost always been polite and professional even during stops for my most egregious traffic transgressions.

Best,
DG

 

[slipstream]

Odd, with one exception that has never been the case in my 50 years of motorcycling in the US. Naturally, one should avoid actions that are contrary to traffic or other laws. And even when I’ve had roadside encounters with LEOs in various states, they have almost always been polite and professional even during stops for my most egregious traffic transgressions.

Best,
DG

You're from Utah? This may be interesting to you...not trying to hijack the thread, troll, or make a statement. Just trying to keep us all safe.

http://www.newsweek.com/footage-shows-moment-salt-lake-city-cop-shot-black-man-back-679306

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/body-cam-footage-from-salt-lake-city-police-shooting-continues-to-raise-questions-1065713731970

 

[dpmonk]

Safe in the USA?

Don't dare come to Texas. We are all gun obsessed nutjobs!

 

[slipstream]

Don't dare come to Texas. We are all gun obsessed nutjobs!

OK, since you asked for it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3357321/New-video-released-shows-Texas-man-hands-shot-cops.html

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/01/us/san-antonio-bexar-county-texas-police-shooting/index.html

 

[slipstream]

Don't dare come to Texas. We are all gun obsessed nutjobs!

Sorry. Missed this one.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/dallas-officer-arrested-for-stealing-830-in-groceries/493991932

 

[slipstream]

...and oh, yeah....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baltimore-detective-sean-suiter-corruption-probe-shot-with-own-gun/

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/fifty-swat-cops-tore-down-house-shoplifting/

 

[greenwald]

I think that is far from accurate.

Far from accurate?

300,000+ in uniform, and he comes up with this?

Hey ..... it's the Forum. Can pretty much say whatever.

It's the fool who swallows that Kool-Aid that one should worry about.