exgman
Active member
Thanks for the reply. I have been able to change the size of the area the map shows by using the WonderWheel (Zoom+ and Zoom-) but I guess that's it, eh?
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How Much!!!!
- Thread starter motodan
- Start date
Thanks for the reply. I have been able to change the size of the area the map shows by using the WonderWheel (Zoom+ and Zoom-) but I guess that's it, eh?
alancoles
Dress for fall & avoid it
As others have said, it is really a matter of intended usage, scale and proportion. One could have easily bought another manufacturer's Adv bike and had plenty of money left over for a motorcycle specific GPS and still spent less than the price of a new R1200GS. You could even have bought a new F700/800GS for half the price. However, if a person makes an active choice to buy an R1200GS than, as you say, the "value for dollar" proposition should also perhaps follow as similar decision path.
A GS, be it a 700/800/1200 is designed and built as an ADV bike and one pays a premium for that model vs say an R1200RT (same drivetrain/frame/etc), so we should assume that the GS will actually be ridden off-road or at least on dirt/gravel roads some of it's life. That being the case, I'm not sure trying to use a "make do" solution makes much sense. If you're thinking of a Nuvi 50 or cell phone vs the Nav-V it is very much an apples and oranges comparison. The Nuvi 50 is a five year old car design GPS with 5 year old abilities and features that cost about $250 when new and is between $100-$125 today. Not sure what a Nav-V will be going for used but I have seen $500 ones so let us say you are actually looking at a difference of $400 used to used. Even if you only keep your GS for 5 years and decide to sell everything then, you will have a GPS that is worth say $250 vs the Nuvi 50 being a $50 unit, so that's a real net-difference of $200 over the next 5 years or just $3 per month! If you include the price of a Bluetooth solution for the Nuvi 50 and a mount, then there might be very little real difference. The cell phone GPS isn't as well suited to your usage as the Nuvi 50 is but will worth $0, however, seeing as it is virtually no cost that shouldn't be an issue, only real-world usability should be.
I currently have a Nav-V and a Nuvi 56LM plus I've started using CoPilot (I've had many other GPS units in the past) they are not the same piece of gear and, for me. While I am very frugal in most areas and do pay a lot of attention to "value for dollar", I wouldn't hesitate to pay the premium now that I've had approximately 5,000-6,000 miles with the Nav-V. The integration, ease of use, added motorcycle specific features, etc., far out-weight a real-world savings of perhaps $100 (net) over 5 years.
These are decisions that each person has to make for themselves, but remember to keep in mind the total net-cost not just the entry price. When you do that and consider that if a GS is used as a GS than one is putting a lot of strain on the Nuvi compared to the Nav-V and still not getting quite the same experience. I hate the cost of these things but they have to operate in a harsh environment and I want the most functionality and fewest distractions while riding which leads me to spending more than I like, but such is life.
John, as mentioned, you cannot enter search criteria, etc., via the wheel. As you've discovered, you can zoom in and out with it via the Zoom+ and Zoom- selections.
Using the WonderWheel you can do the following from the Navigation Display window with the wheel (from the rider's manual):
- Page: You can page from view to view; the choices are main menu, map and onboard computer
- Zoom +: Performs functions marked with a minus sign + in the navigation system. In the map view, for instance, the view zooms in on the map detail
- Zoom –: Performs functions marked with a minus sign - in the navigation system. In the map view, for instance, the view zooms out from the map detail
- Speak: The last navigation announcement is spoken again. The announcement is spoken again even if automatic spoken announcements have been switched off in the settings of the navigation system
- Mute: Automatic spoken announcements are toggled off and on
- Display Off: The display of the navigation device is toggled off and on
I use the Page, Zoom and Speak commands on a regular but infrequent basis. The value-added item that I use most with the Nav-V is perhaps the "Cruising range" display in the bottom left of the dashboard part of the map when I've got my something else up on the Onboard Computer display.
Just looked at my Nav-V to check this stuff and through the "myGarmin" feature it has a message that there is an update for the Nav-V that was released today.
Regarding the cell phone usability, I've just returned from a trip to Miami. Like you, I found times when the phone app just wasn't up to par. I rented a car and while Anna and I are quite familiar with Southern Florida and drive there at least once per year, I thought it would be a good time to do a trial-run with my cell phone GPS - CoPilot. Using a car and having another person use the phone will naturally make things easier for the vehicle operator and that was the case. My impressions of CoPilot are that it is a very good phone app that is just a bit too slow in places and doesn't actually have all the features that I want. Several folks have mentioned that it does have search, and other features available, but I found out that they are not available without either WiFi or Cell service. As mentioned, the reaction time lags my dedicated GPS units by a slight margin and this wasn't an issue on the freeways or suburban areas, but in town it got tripped up noticeably more often than a dedicated GPS. While it was only a one week trial it convinced me that for me, my Garmin is still my #1 choice and I don't have any desire to try and scrimp on spending in that area. I'm so much happier when my navigation works the way I want it to when I want it to and gets me to where I want with the least amount of fuss. CoPilot is close to being able to do that but not quite there and so I'll be sticking to my Nav-V and Nuvi 56LM for the foreseeable future. YMMV
BMW Triumphant
Ed Kilner #176066
I do find that useful, once in a while.
Still, I don't know who decided to short change RT owners. He/She has offended many of us.
lee
Debbie's Servant
I can't remember right now, but bump the wheel one direction and you get a screen with 16 different values, like range, engine temp, ect.
Spin the wheel to change the display from 16 values, to 4, or one.
Bump the wheel the other direction and you get a compass and the miles to your destination, if you have a destination entered.
I don't use the info button on my RS, I just bump the wonder wheel and pull up the display with 16 values.
You can choose which 16 values to display.
You need the Computer Pro option on your bike for this to work.
BMW Triumphant
Ed Kilner #176066
On my RT, I have never noticed this. Will look next ride. In the meantime, did you have to do something to get this to display? Does this work with all dashboards?
lee
Debbie's Servant
You have the option to pick several different Dashboards.
BMW Triumphant
Ed Kilner #176066
Thanks, I'm well aware of that. Have cycled through them and the Themes to try to get the brightest display with best contrast of lettering against background.
My question to Alan was how to get the Cruising Range display that he mentioned.
I upgraded my unit just now and turned on Fuel Settings. Maybe that is the needed step.
It's still working so not sure any effects of water. I'm guilty of taking my hand off the bar, sometimes returning a wave, adjusting a mirror, moving my visor, attending to an itch, wiping rain from visor...and on occasion touching the GPS.
I'm not a golfer or for that matter have any other hobbies, so the bikes are my hobby. If I see something that fits a requirement for me, I buy it. I currently use a Garmin Zumo 590, and move it between the bikes and the car. It will charge the cell phone while riding, has blue tooth ( if you are into that ), tire pressure monitors etc. Yes it is certainly overkill, but it works flawlessly and the touch screen even works with motorcycle gloves on. As I get older I really appreciate the big screen. I do lock it up if I'm away form the bike. Its main advantage is that it is not bike manufacturer specific, so I just have to deal with Garmin and easily moves between bikes/vehicles.
This seems so contradictory to me... "new bike"? After spending God only knows how many thousands on the bike, what in the world is another couple hundred bucks? I mean, really.
I'm not an "eggs in one basket" type of guy but I am finding out that a modern GPS (or PHONE GPS app) can dial you into exact locations. This is where maps and most other stuff fails. The biggest benefit I can see with GPS vs Phone use is weather resistannce.
Don't be confused. It is value related. Simply isn't $800.00 worth of value in the competing (crowded) marketplace. Yes, it let's you spin the "magic" wheel and mounts on their propriety mount, but for me it stops there. I would prefer BMW make a simple, equivalent of Garmin's basic GPS and waterproof it, say for 3 times the base Garmin cost, around $350.00. That would be a value item for my application. It could mount in the BMW mount one already pays for on most inventory bikes these days...as for me the wheel doesn't need to be connected, I can still lift my index finger.
lee
Debbie's Servant
Still not cheap, but the BMW Navigator Street is $550.
http://www.roadrunner.travel/2015/09/20/bmw-navigator-street/
alancoles
Dress for fall & avoid it
The following pertains to my Nav-V mounted in the factory GPS mount on my 2014 R1200RT. It may or may not be applicable to other combinations, I don't know.
Such as below (my Nav-V). Note that the the lower left info box which on my GPS here is showing 3:06 hours as the time to my destination.
View attachment 58583
If I do have a destination active than the GPS will display, as in the top photo, what I have set as the data to be displayed in that field, time to destination in that case.
As you are likely aware, what is displayed in that field is easily changed by simply pressing on it to bring up the "Select Data to Display" screen. The options in this area are dependent on whether the GPS is dismounted from the bike or mounted, the ignition is on or off, and if there is a destination active or not.
With the GPS unit mounted on the bike and the ignition on, one simply needs to press on that lower left data field and select "Fuel Range" and then press save. It is the very last option available as you scroll down through the option screens.
I use this when I'm displaying something else on the bikes Onboard computer display which I have set mostly to show range, however sometimes set it to show other data.
On long rides, especially if there are several waypoints I will use several of the GPS data fields to give me a better idea of whether I can make it to the next waypoint before fueling or not. On these types of rides I often cycle the GPS between some of the following: Time to Destination, Arrival Time, Distance, Via Arrival, Distance to Via, Time to Via and Fuel Range.
Lee I don't think if it is actually dependent on which dashboard one uses or not. I believe that just so long as the dashboard has the appropriate section for displaying arrival time, distance to destination, etc., everything will work.
Such as below (my Nav-V). Note that the the lower left info box which on my GPS here is showing 3:06 hours as the time to my destination.
View attachment 58583
Ed if I am riding without a destination set in the GPS then the fuel range will show in the lower left info box which on my GPS above is showing 3:06 hours as the time to my destination. In the photo below I have cleared the destination and then see the "Fuel Range".
If I do have a destination active than the GPS will display, as in the top photo, what I have set as the data to be displayed in that field, time to destination in that case.
As you are likely aware, what is displayed in that field is easily changed by simply pressing on it to bring up the "Select Data to Display" screen. The options in this area are dependent on whether the GPS is dismounted from the bike or mounted, the ignition is on or off, and if there is a destination active or not.
With the GPS unit mounted on the bike and the ignition on, one simply needs to press on that lower left data field and select "Fuel Range" and then press save. It is the very last option available as you scroll down through the option screens.
I use this when I'm displaying something else on the bikes Onboard computer display which I have set mostly to show range, however sometimes set it to show other data.
On long rides, especially if there are several waypoints I will use several of the GPS data fields to give me a better idea of whether I can make it to the next waypoint before fueling or not. On these types of rides I often cycle the GPS between some of the following: Time to Destination, Arrival Time, Distance, Via Arrival, Distance to Via, Time to Via and Fuel Range.
Pricey Gear
Understand that the folks at BMW Corporate operate under a very simple premise; that being "There's an ass for every seat". A lot of BMW guys are like the fanatics in the Corvette and Porsche clubs; they believe they have to have BMW everything and would probably buy toilet paper with the Rondel at $5 a roll if someone would sell it to them. That having been said, their stuff usually works and works right because it's made for the machines they sell. How bad do you need the latest and greatest? Is it a functional necessity? then bite the bullet. You have to decide. I had a Nav 3 on a K1200Lt which I considered a pain in the ass so I went back to a compass and a map. You may have different needs, but make no mistake, BMW marketing is very good at convincing people that what they want is what they need. I would do what the Iron Butt guys and other motorcycle world travelers do because if they are using something, there's a good reason. It works.
Best,
Will
Understand that the folks at BMW Corporate operate under a very simple premise; that being "There's an ass for every seat". A lot of BMW guys are like the fanatics in the Corvette and Porsche clubs; they believe they have to have BMW everything and would probably buy toilet paper with the Rondel at $5 a roll if someone would sell it to them. That having been said, their stuff usually works and works right because it's made for the machines they sell. How bad do you need the latest and greatest? Is it a functional necessity? then bite the bullet. You have to decide. I had a Nav 3 on a K1200Lt which I considered a pain in the ass so I went back to a compass and a map. You may have different needs, but make no mistake, BMW marketing is very good at convincing people that what they want is what they need. I would do what the Iron Butt guys and other motorcycle world travelers do because if they are using something, there's a good reason. It works.
Best,
Will
alancoles
Dress for fall & avoid it
Will, I agree there are plenty of BMW owners who spend money for high-priced items because it is BMW labelled versus non-BMW labelled equivalent items (some BMW oil, grease, etc., for example), just like as you mentioned, Porsche and Corvette. I would add every other European or Speciality manufacturer of cars and motorcycles (Ducati, etc.) as well as the biggest example of alll H-D. While these folks stand out amongst the other owners of their brands they probably represent a minority of the owner base, but are more visible due to their actions.
I think, however, this has nothing to do with the Nav-V.
The Nav-V is a Garmin manufactured GPS that has equivalent and competing models offered that are non-BMW which are similar in price or even more expensive, which completely destroys the premise that the item being discussed, BMW Nav-V, is over-priced a) relative to the market or b) relative to equivalent products. This just isn't the case.
The Garmin Zumo 595LM lists for more than a BMW Nav-V, $900 on Revzilla vs $800 for the Nav-V from BMW. These aren't exact matches, but there typically is no significant margin on the BMW unit vs the direct equivalent Garmin unit. The least expensive motorcycle GPS that Revzilla lists are $500 Garmin and TomTom units.
The real question everyone seems to be asking without actually realizing it most of the time is why are motorcycle units (BMW, Garmin, TomTom, Magellan) so much more than your standard car GPS.
Well, there is a very simple answer for that, they are not the same pieces of gear.
I have two "marine" GPS units, one on a sailboat and one on a cruiser each cost more than a BMW Nav-V and none come with Lifetime maps. Map updates are typically $200~ each time! Have a look at the prices for aviation GPS units (those designed for small private planes) and you'll see the same thing.
These prices exist in a competitive market. Far more competitive than the motorcycle GPS market so what you have is likely a relatively accurate reflection of the real pricing that these units require to support their additional build and feature requirements along with the fact that they will typically sell in much lower volumes than car GPS units do. So if we put added features and lower volume together in a competitive marketplace that virtually always equates to higher pricing.
Are these units expensive, yes, are the BMW units expensive compared to equivalent units on the market, no.
Too many people are getting caught up in trying to compare apples to oranges. I have no concern what anyone else uses, but for me, I've owned and used car GPS units since the very early days, bike GPS units for about 4 years and have been testing phone-based GPS (CoPilot) for several weeks. I personally prefer a bike-based GPS by a significant margin when riding my bikes.
In addition to the BMW Nav-V and the two marine GPS units (Standard Horizon and NorthStar), I also have a Garmin 56LM car GPS, an old Garmin 2730 bike GPS (actually just sold that) and two vehicles with OE GPS built in, so I've got a fair bit of exposure to many different GPS options and how they work in the real world. Mine are typically used for 5,000-10,000 miles per year in Canada, the US and Europe.
I like to go places I haven't been before and take in the experience. Having a good GPS that is quick and easy to use helps with that. Having a purpose-built GPS makes it even easier, safer, and less time-consuming. These factors combined are what drive me to make my personal choices as to what type of GPS unit I use for what application. I am a frugal individual, ask anyone who knows me, but I also recognize that using the best tool for the job is far easier than trying to do everything with a Swiss Army knife. For me, the small ($100~) actual, long-term, net-cost of using a bike GPS versus a car GPS is worth it. For others that is not the case, either due to personal preference, budget, or some other reason, but I do think it is time to recognize that there are real differences and they do come at a price. My dear departed grandmother always used to say, "I'd rather have a little of something nice than a lot of something mediocre". I would not go so far as to say that using a car or phone-based GPS on a bike is mediocre, but you do lose features, and at best are using a unit not designed for the vibration, moisture, etc.
I used to camp when I did any distance riding but then moved to motels like Days Inn, Best Western, and more recently switch to Fairfield Inn, Hampton Inn, etc. The same has occurred with my bikes and gear. I now spend more on both. Each person should find where on that value proposition they fall, make their own choices, and have fun riding. It is truly great that we have so many good options all along the price scale. When I started riding distances in the early-mid 70's it was with a bedroll, a map, and a little cash on my 1973 Norton Commando 850. A 5,000 mile bike trip then was a completely different animal than my 5k ride to the BMWMOA Rally this year. Both were great, but it would take someone much younger than me to do a 5k trip on the Norton, camping with a road map today. ;-)
I think, however, this has nothing to do with the Nav-V.
The Nav-V is a Garmin manufactured GPS that has equivalent and competing models offered that are non-BMW which are similar in price or even more expensive, which completely destroys the premise that the item being discussed, BMW Nav-V, is over-priced a) relative to the market or b) relative to equivalent products. This just isn't the case.
The Garmin Zumo 595LM lists for more than a BMW Nav-V, $900 on Revzilla vs $800 for the Nav-V from BMW. These aren't exact matches, but there typically is no significant margin on the BMW unit vs the direct equivalent Garmin unit. The least expensive motorcycle GPS that Revzilla lists are $500 Garmin and TomTom units.
The real question everyone seems to be asking without actually realizing it most of the time is why are motorcycle units (BMW, Garmin, TomTom, Magellan) so much more than your standard car GPS.
Well, there is a very simple answer for that, they are not the same pieces of gear.
I have two "marine" GPS units, one on a sailboat and one on a cruiser each cost more than a BMW Nav-V and none come with Lifetime maps. Map updates are typically $200~ each time! Have a look at the prices for aviation GPS units (those designed for small private planes) and you'll see the same thing.
These prices exist in a competitive market. Far more competitive than the motorcycle GPS market so what you have is likely a relatively accurate reflection of the real pricing that these units require to support their additional build and feature requirements along with the fact that they will typically sell in much lower volumes than car GPS units do. So if we put added features and lower volume together in a competitive marketplace that virtually always equates to higher pricing.
Are these units expensive, yes, are the BMW units expensive compared to equivalent units on the market, no.
Too many people are getting caught up in trying to compare apples to oranges. I have no concern what anyone else uses, but for me, I've owned and used car GPS units since the very early days, bike GPS units for about 4 years and have been testing phone-based GPS (CoPilot) for several weeks. I personally prefer a bike-based GPS by a significant margin when riding my bikes.
In addition to the BMW Nav-V and the two marine GPS units (Standard Horizon and NorthStar), I also have a Garmin 56LM car GPS, an old Garmin 2730 bike GPS (actually just sold that) and two vehicles with OE GPS built in, so I've got a fair bit of exposure to many different GPS options and how they work in the real world. Mine are typically used for 5,000-10,000 miles per year in Canada, the US and Europe.
I like to go places I haven't been before and take in the experience. Having a good GPS that is quick and easy to use helps with that. Having a purpose-built GPS makes it even easier, safer, and less time-consuming. These factors combined are what drive me to make my personal choices as to what type of GPS unit I use for what application. I am a frugal individual, ask anyone who knows me, but I also recognize that using the best tool for the job is far easier than trying to do everything with a Swiss Army knife. For me, the small ($100~) actual, long-term, net-cost of using a bike GPS versus a car GPS is worth it. For others that is not the case, either due to personal preference, budget, or some other reason, but I do think it is time to recognize that there are real differences and they do come at a price. My dear departed grandmother always used to say, "I'd rather have a little of something nice than a lot of something mediocre". I would not go so far as to say that using a car or phone-based GPS on a bike is mediocre, but you do lose features, and at best are using a unit not designed for the vibration, moisture, etc.
I used to camp when I did any distance riding but then moved to motels like Days Inn, Best Western, and more recently switch to Fairfield Inn, Hampton Inn, etc. The same has occurred with my bikes and gear. I now spend more on both. Each person should find where on that value proposition they fall, make their own choices, and have fun riding. It is truly great that we have so many good options all along the price scale. When I started riding distances in the early-mid 70's it was with a bedroll, a map, and a little cash on my 1973 Norton Commando 850. A 5,000 mile bike trip then was a completely different animal than my 5k ride to the BMWMOA Rally this year. Both were great, but it would take someone much younger than me to do a 5k trip on the Norton, camping with a road map today. ;-)
JWMcDonald
New member
re Pricey
It is what the market will bear - no one is holding a gun to a buyer's head.
Some can afford it - some cannot.
You get to vote with your wallet.
It is what the market will bear - no one is holding a gun to a buyer's head.
Some can afford it - some cannot.
You get to vote with your wallet.
How many other models and makes of GPS fit the GPS mount provided by BMW on their bikes at buyers expense?
Not sure "afford" is the question. Value for the price of their GPS, to use the already paid for proprietary mount and "magic" wheel, is the crux.
alancoles
Dress for fall & avoid it
Others here know better than me but, IIRC, the Garmin Zumo 660LM and possibly the 665LM but as I say, I can't recall for certain. It has been identified by others here in the past which ones will mount in the BMW OE mount. They will be completely functional but will not take input from the WonderWheel.
I agree that is really the question, value for dollars spent. I'd also include the caveat that one should really be looking at Total Cost of Ownership over the life of the unit vs just initial cost.
For me the WonderWheel (BMW calls it the Multi-Controller) is a nice added feature, but not a major feature.
I think that the discussion/debate really needs to be use specific (motorcycle GPS) vs use generic (car GPS). All motorcycle GPS units are much more expensive than their car-based units due to the differences that I outlined in my previous post. There is little price difference between a new Nav-V and any other new 5" motorcycle specific GPS model. The big initial price differences are between car-based GPS units and motorcycle/marine/aviation based units that are designed to much tougher standards to, hopefully, work longer in the harsher environments that exist with these types of applications.
Go to any "quality" watch repair shop and ask them what the difference in price is to replace the battery in a watch that is water-resistant to 30 feet vs one that is water-resistant to 300 feet and have them retain that water-resistance, should be 2-3 times as much because of the special seals and the extra-care required to assemble them. Higher standards virtually always come at a cost which is justified if those higher standards are required or desired.
