Harley-Davidson and the push to expand their riding academies

[glenfiddich]

I'm for any training that goes against the folk wisdom "advice" of "never use the front brake," "helmets break your neck in a crash," "loud pipes save lives" school. Brand doesn't matter. Keeping riders safe does.

 

[179212]

Watch Out

I'm for any training that goes against the folk wisdom "advice" of "never use the front brake," "helmets break your neck in a crash," "loud pipes save lives" school. Brand doesn't matter. Keeping riders safe does.

And if you don't like what I am saying my dog is going to lick yer

And if you like what I am saying my dog is going to .....

 

[Stebe]

Without any malice, can anybody explain the utility of assless chaps, bean pot helmets, fake DOT stickers, handlebar tassles, off-road only pipes, wife beater black T shirts, ape hanger handlebars, or doo rags? Just curious.

Well, if your bike gets repo-ed you can still be a sidewalk commando!

In all honesty, I'm for all things two-wheeled. I spent 30 years on HD's, because it fit me well, and cringing every time I heard some 'seasoned expert' advising against using the front brake etc. Never wore a beanie. Bought full leathers. Raingear, too, and used it. Waved at everybody. Rode the Alps, Smoky's, Rockies, rain, sun, hail, etc. Now I like my RT, more power, better suspension, not as comfortable though.

 

[calsgone]

Just a note, HD exhaust Thought

Nothing sounds as sweet as a 5 liter Ford V8 with a Borla exhaust system. HD does not sound sweet, just ratty.

Can't comment on the Borla/Ford exhaust thing. My last "rod" was a 1969 Dodge 440 Charger with cut outs, eons ago !!

HD is interesting on that sound from back in the day, and you may know this but here goes. A large part of the growl and crackle is a caused problem, from the factory. The two cylinders are made to ignite a very small bit differently. Just barely out of synch. loads one side with gas differently, perhaps.

There was a case of a tuner not going by the book, dyno tuning for max power and the sound went away, the owner was pissed, and had it "corrected". That's not a lot, but the power increased as the noise dropped a touch. Those pipes were also copied by a couple asian brands as well, I think Yamaha, to get more of that sound on their bikes. If I made bikes I would have done that too. At one time, you could put HD pipes on one asian brand, forget which. Kaching, eh !!

Thanks, -- Cal

 

[charliematley]

Totally agree, they are riders just like us.

Over the past 10 years, I've had a professional and personal relationship with one part of BMW's training offer... the BMW US Rider Academy, part of the BMW Performance Center. I'm personal friends with the people who run the motorcycle program, my agency produced a series of videos that present the BMW US Rider Academy training experience, I've ridden in GS Trophy events, reported on and photographed the GST events and the worked with them to coordinate their extremely generous support of the GS Giants. Back in the day, I pointed out Jim Hyde of RawHyde to then-editor Sandy Cohen and have a pretty clear insight to his business model.

All this exposure has led me to conclude two things:

1) BMW does not integrate training into its overall brand experience very well.

2) The MOA, especially the MOA Foundation is missing a major opportunity to attract new members


There are many reasons why I feel this way, here is a brief distillation of the major points:

- BMW does not give new bike buyers the opportunity to roll the cost of training into their financing

- BMW does not do a great job of engaging its dealers in selling training (or facilitating its delivery)

- to get BMW training, you have to go to South Carolina or California

- The MOA Foundation will pay for training through the PaulB scholarship, but there appears to be no coordination between BMW and MOAF in delivering such a service (could be wrong here)

- BMW offered the MOA a trailer full of G310s to support a training effort... the offer has not been acted upon (I get this information from several friends with knowledge of the facts... but I have no formal info from MOAF, so I could be wrong)

- There is a major opportunity to coordinate training between MOAF, local clubs and authorized dealers, but it has not been realized.


Now, you gotta know me.... I think the best training you can get is three tanks of gas for your motorcycle... but in front of the MOA + BMW lies an opportunity to bring new riders into the fold, deliver a great experience and make lifelong customers and members.

Why we don't do it? but it sure looks like an ideal element in an integrated marketing strategy if only we were to align all the forces and make things work.

jmo.

Ian

Sorry to bump this thread, but attempting to explore this further.


Please PM me with details re. BMW Training trailer offer.

-Charlie

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

IMHO the MOA is missing the boat by not offering MSF classes during the Nationals. At least a one day refresher course is what most of us could use and it would save $$ on your insurance too.
The local HD dealer offers the classes and every weekend I see bikes of various makes in the parking lot doing the exercises. Reason I see that is because my go to MTB park is right next door...
The more training, the better regardless of what brand is bringing it.

 

[pglaves]

IMHO the MOA is missing the boat by not offering MSF classes during the Nationals. At least a one day refresher course is what most of us could use and it would save $$ on your insurance too.
The local HD dealer offers the classes and every weekend I see bikes of various makes in the parking lot doing the exercises. Reason I see that is because my go to MTB park is right next door...
The more training, the better regardless of what brand is bringing it.

I have been to all but one National since 1984. As far as I can remember there has been an MSF Advanced Rider Course (or whatever they call it now) at every one of those rallies. There may have been a year when it didn't happen but I don't know when that might have been. For several years they also provided an "older" rider or aging rider or somesuch which is a classroom only course. And for young riders there has been GEARS training for about the past ten or so years.

 

[greenwald]

I have been to all but one National since 1984. As far as I can remember there has been an MSF Advanced Rider Course (or whatever they call it now) at every one of those rallies. There may have been a year when it didn't happen but I don't know when that might have been. For several years they also provided an "older" rider or aging rider or somesuch which is a classroom only course. And for young riders there has been GEARS training for about the past ten or so years.

Two riding courses (about 6 hrs. each) come to mind, that are affordable and currently offered by the MSF and easily integrated into rallies.

PM with details sent your way.

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

I have been to all but one National since 1984. As far as I can remember there has been an MSF Advanced Rider Course (or whatever they call it now) at every one of those rallies. There may have been a year when it didn't happen but I don't know when that might have been. For several years they also provided an "older" rider or aging rider or somesuch which is a classroom only course. And for young riders there has been GEARS training for about the past ten or so years.

I stand corrected! Didn't realize that there are courses available and that is good to know. I have only attended a couple of Nationals as usually they coincide with other events I visit.

 

[pglaves]

http://www.ridebrotherhood.com/simple-trick-prevents-police-ever-giving-speeding-ticket/

 

[henzilla]

Thats funny...and great advice

 

[soocom1]

Oh I will probably get my head handed to me for commenting on this thread, given its age, AND that I am going to go against at least some of the sentiment expressed.

I was actually researching threads on exercises for riding because of discussions I had recently and my new found perk of free gym at work.

But, this thread got me thinking and researching a bit for several of the sentiments expressed.

I too was a HD owner and I went through the Rider's Course. I was NOT propagandized into the "lifestyle", it was something that appealed to my wife and I for many years up until we could actually afford bikes.


To be honest (probably because I live in New Mexico) I have had unfortunately MANY MANY near miss experiences where the "loud pipes saves lives" thing actually came into work. Now I had factory pipes and they weren't "loud" by the aftermarket standard, but their volume was in fact what alerted (me hitting the throttle) that caught the attention of the drivers who were NOT paying attention to me.

This was emphasized when during my two week stent of riding a Vrod (with its uber quiet german mufflers) nearly got me squashed by of all things a New Mexico State Police SUV and the INATTENTIVE officer driving it.

The K75 I have now isn't the loudest nor the quietest bike, but its weird Jetson's flying car sound is what is catching attention at least for now. (Boom box-thumper cars aside).

When I laid on the horn for a driver who didn't see or hear me, and I had to swerve to avoid becoming a pink spot on the road, the horn was a pathetic...beeeep, like off a Vespa. ( apologies to Vespa). So in short order its going to be replaced with something a bit more aggressive in sound.

I am also seriously considering a louder muffler not so much to show off, but be heard.
I get the argument and I understand the arguments made, ESPECIALLY those who have been annoyed by or even injured by the sound of near open exhaust.

I understand and respect the opinion and agree that the uber loud pipes similar to those put onto Wide glides or Roadkings are WAYYY too obnoxious, distracting and even dangerous because the throttle bumping can cause a startle situation with a driver, in turn causing accidents.

But my personal experience on the streets of New Mexico has given me the opinion that the somewhat louder pipes (within reason for me) are still favored because they have in fact given me the advantage of being heard.

More to the OP however, is that the Rider's Edge course is IMO a pretty decent course to take, and for the lower end riders, at least somewhat affordable. They don't go into some of the more refined aspects of riding and some of it is generalized. Plus you have to have a decent instructor. But I am all for education and skill building on any level. Especially for bikers on any type of bike given the HIGHLY pathetic and urine-poor driver's education and education in general in this state, means the biker (if they value their lives) needs to be better honed on skills when riding.


Just my opinion.

 

[flyhi2cfar]

All Good by me. The stock horns are ridiculous. Noisy just enough... does draw attention. My HD is like that, and my BMW has an aftermarket effective horn.

"travel'n" john

 

[greenwald]

Without any malice, can anybody explain the utility of assless chaps, bean pot helmets, fake DOT stickers, handlebar tassles, off-road only pipes, wife beater black T shirts, ape hanger handlebars, or doo rags? Just curious.

Sorry. Got nothing.

Hooked all those choices up to the proverbial 'Logic/Common Sense' meter, and the needle didn't even move.

 

[jammess]

Loud pipes just to be heard? If that's what motorcycling in this country has come down to count me out as in who wants to buy a pristine very low miles R1100RSL and or an equally pristine FJR1300A with all the goodies and then some? I'm serious! The idea that one must ride an obnoxious beast like an HD to get some brain dead idiot's attention just does not inspire me one iota!

 

[Omega Man]

For your consideration-
Having a vehicle that has some noise associated with it will (IMO) improve safety in an urban environment. Taking into account how many pedestrians are walking with earbuds or headphones, sneaking up in ultimate quiet really doesn't help. I have had something a simple as squeaky disc brakes grab a pedestrians- or bicyclists attention, thus making them aware I was there.
YMMV
OM

 

[Friedle]

Motorcycle safety studies indicate most interactions (77%) with other vehicles occur in the slice of the clock between 11:00 and 1:00. Rear end interactions only accounted for about 3% of the studied incidents.

If loud pipes really saved lives, wouldn't they point to the front instead of the rear??? Wouldn't EVERY manufacturer put loud pipes on their bike as standard equipment??? Who would want to be known as selling a proven unsafe bike?????

"Loud pipes save lives" is anecdotal bull**** at the very best. The one thing loud pipes certainly do is annoy people......especially at 2 am!

Friedle

 

[Friedle]

Sorry. Got nothing.

Hooked all those choices up to the proverbial 'Logic/Common Sense' meter, and the needle didn't even move.

Kevin, perhaps they are auditioning for the next Johnny Depp pirate movie ?

Friedle

 

[oldcamper]

Without any malice, can anybody explain the utility of assless chaps, bean pot helmets, fake DOT stickers, handlebar tassles, off-road only pipes, wife beater black T shirts, ape hanger handlebars, or doo rags? Just curious.

I’m an ATGATT believer but got there gradually so it’s not too hard to at least understand why some riders are not ...

Chaps might keep some wind from your legs on a cold ride.

Bean pot helmets are inexpensive and light and a fake DOT sticker might avoid a ticket in states that require helmet use.

Doo rags keep your hair from getting messed up and bugs off your forehead but also might prevent sunburn if you don’t have much hair to worry about anymore.

I can think of no logical justification for straight pipes, ape hangers, or motorcycles that can go faster than 100 mph. GS riders that ride everywhere standing on the pegs also mystify me. Why don’t they just buy a better seat for their bike?

 

[martyhill]

GS riders that ride everywhere standing on the pegs also mystify me. Why don’t they just buy a better seat for their bike?

Now that's a true classic.