Front Rotors are warped at only 8100 miles (13000 Km)?2008 R1200R

[rb3cliff]

I'm the second owner of a pristine 2008 R1200R I bought it in May with 5200 miles, it now has 8100 miles, when I apply the brakes I get a surging effect and over the last month it is getting worse. I took the bike to Wolfe BMW in London Ontario for a couple of recalls and asked if they could check out the surging effect I suspected it could mean that their is air in the breaking system however it turns out that the front rotors are warped causing the surging effect when I apply the brakes.

The service manager suggested the probable cause could be that the previous owner may have trailered the bike and on tying it down may have damaged the rotors, however he suggested the most likely cause was when I had a new set of tires mounted and the bike shop installed was not careful and bent the rotors in the tire changing machine.

Does any of this sound familiar?

The tough part is to replace the rotors it will cost me $1100.00 and only BMW Germany has stock.

I'm surprised that not one but both rotors are warped?

Any suggestions?

Thanks Cliff

 

[pauls1150]

Typically any "bike shop" knows to be careful to not bend rotors during a tire change; while certainly possible, they'd have to be dishonest gorillas to damage both.
Tie-downs are even less likely to damage them unless somebody really mis-routed the lines to the fork legs or actually put a hook though the rotor...

Have to wonder if something is preventing the calipers from fully releasing - rusty pins, bad seals on the brake pistons, bad brake hose, a blocked return hole in the master cylinder...?

another source - http://www.beemerboneyard.com/abm320pr2.html

 

[rad]

I feel your pain

On my 07' R I had to replace the front rotors because the surging when stopping made it dangerous at slow speeds. Turned out that the 07', not sure of 08', had a service bulletin (not a recall)regarding replacing the rotors, including an upgraded mounting system. Unfortunately the bulletin ended prior to me getting the bike so I had to pay for the rotors and upgrade myself.

 

[BC1100S]

Just for reference sake, you have a Hexhead so there may be further valuable info available to you in the Hexhead/Camhead forum, however...

If you do need to replace your rotors, these might be viable for you:

http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/bmw/R1200R-M-B.html

 

[m_stock10506]

Or, these guys might have a much lower cost solution:

http://www.truedisk.net

 

[henzilla]

Will move to Hexheads and add year/model to title shortly

Seriously doubt either of the reasons given were the cause...have you visually seen the warpage , having someone tilt the bike rearward and watching the clearance?

If a replacement is needed, the aftermarket guys (some German built as well if that is a concern) are a way cheaper alternative as mentioned. The 05-06 RT's were known to have rotor issues, mine did, not sure how many R's had the same issue, but rad may have answered that. H has an 07 Roadster and the fronts still true, the rear has a wave aftermarket now.

 

[rad]

Double check with a BMW dealer to confirm if you have the updated rotor buttons on your 08'. I don't know when they made the change, it was early in the R1200R run. If you have the old style, make sure you upgrade to the new ones or chances are you will just have the problem again.

If you search enough on this site you will find a couple threads about this issue and even a copy of the service bulletin.

 

[rb3cliff]

Thanks for all the info on the Rotors

I will contact the BMW dealer and pass this information on
especially since there was a bulletin on the 2007 models
Much appreciated
Cliff

 

[rb3cliff]

No luck finding any service bullitens

Double check with a BMW dealer to confirm if you have the updated rotor buttons on your 08'. I don't know when they made the change, it was early in the R1200R run. If you have the old style, make sure you upgrade to the new ones or chances are you will just have the problem again.

If you search enough on this site you will find a couple threads about this issue and even a copy of the service bulletin.

Any suggestions on how to find this service bulletin?
Thanks Rad,
Cliff

 

[henzilla]

Mentioned in post 16 of this thread

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...ed-brake-rotors-discs&highlight=warped+rotors

Still looking for it

 

[rad]

Here ya go. I forgot it included all 1200's

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?48936-Front-Rotors-on-2007-GSA&highlight=front+rotors+on+2007+GSA

 

[rad]

For a time BMW was replacing front wheels. This fit my theory that the rotors started out true but were bolted to wheels with out of true mounting surfaces. After a few thousand miles the rotor warped enough to cause brake problems.

There later fix was to develop a new attachment process that allowed the rotor to float enough not to warp.

I put up with mine for a couple of years and finally had enough when the race marshal on the back of my bike and I had a miserable day working a bicycle race as the front rotors made stopping and slow speed maneuvering a real adventure.

I considered a lot of options but bit the bullet and went with new factory rotors and the retrofit buttons. I'm thrilled, I wish I had just done this right off the bat.

 

[rb3cliff]

Thanks Rad and Henzilla for the info on the BMW Bulliten

I copied this information and sent it to my BMW dealer hopefully it may result in a reduced cost?

Other than the rotor issue the bike is fantastic. I've owned 4 BMW's the one before it was an 2007 R1200RT

Thanks for all the help.

Cliff

 

[exgman]

Here is the information on the brakes SIB:

2008 Bmw R1200 Gs Service Brakes, Hydraulic Service Bulletin 239039

Action Number: 10026224
Service Bulletin Number: 239039 Report Date: Feb 01, 2008
Component: Service Brakes, Hydraulic
Summary: Bmw motorcycle: new attachment concept for front brake discs (rivet package, series production standard). The brake discs complete with fasteners (rivet package) now constitute a single component. *pe

 

[Woodbutcher]

May just be build up on the discs. Did they pull them and check for warpage?

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?21352-Not-warped-discs-but-pulsating-brakes!

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=857884

from the above thread:

Usually it happens from brake pad buildup on the rotor. When the brakes are hot, you stop and hold the front brake on material transfers on too the rotor.
A light sanding of the rotor should fix the issue.

 

[rad]

May just be build up on the discs. Did they pull them and check for warpage?

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?21352-Not-warped-discs-but-pulsating-brakes!

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=857884

from the above thread:

Yup, it is worth a try. For some without warped discs this worked.

 

[deilenberger]

I was going to also suggest the possibility of deposits.

Long story short: Last fall I rented an R1200R in Europe. The lessor had just installed new brake pads. The bike had a quite noticeable surge to the brakes. It was a weekend, and I figured I'd see if it got better with use before bothering them. HEAVY repeated braking scrubbed whatever was on the rotors off. Took about 100km, but the brakes were flawless once the crud was worn off.

So - try taking it out and braking HARD. Don't lose control, but do use the brake vigorously. That might help.

I had a K75S - which are prone to this sort of problem for some reason - where it would get crud on the rotors due to sitting with wet pads - and the only fix then was new rotors. Finally went to "Braking" rotors and solved the problem.

FWIW - my rotors are very near the wear limit on my '07 R1200R at 96,000 miles - they are original and have not had the modification done, nor have they ever had a shudder, but I do tend to brake strongly at times. When I replace them I'll be looking at EBC rotors. The rear one I have on the bike has been excellent.

 

[BobbyB26]

On my '05 I ended up with warped rotors, so went ahead and replaced with EBC rotors and pads. The pulsation was reduced but isn't gone. Maybe down to about 1/3 of what it was before. Now it's almost more of a shudder than a pulsation like before, but definantely not "right" feeling. I've tried to break hard a few times going down the "deposits" road, but with no noted results.

So, what to do next?? Can someone explain the floating rotor thing and what needs to be replaced? Also, would doing this have a positive effect on my symptoms?

Also, I read somewhere that the rims may be suspect at the 5 mounting locations. A possible issue with the machining being off a bit and leading to eventual warpage? Anyone heard of this too or was I dreaming again? If I have to take the rotors off again I may have a local machine shop take a pass at the mounting point to assure uniformity....worth it?

 

[deilenberger]

On my '05 I ended up with warped rotors, so went ahead and replaced with EBC rotors and pads. The pulsation was reduced but isn't gone. Maybe down to about 1/3 of what it was before. Now it's almost more of a shudder than a pulsation like before, but definantely not "right" feeling. I've tried to break hard a few times going down the "deposits" road, but with no noted results.

So, what to do next?? Can someone explain the floating rotor thing and what needs to be replaced? Also, would doing this have a positive effect on my symptoms?

Also, I read somewhere that the rims may be suspect at the 5 mounting locations. A possible issue with the machining being off a bit and leading to eventual warpage? Anyone heard of this too or was I dreaming again? If I have to take the rotors off again I may have a local machine shop take a pass at the mounting point to assure uniformity....worth it?

There is a problem with having a machine shop cut the mounting points - the rotors are supposed to be centered in the calipers. Without similar machining done to the calipers, or the use of some sort of shims under the mounting points you're going to be modifying the brake geometry in a way that might produce undesirable results.

It really isn't hard to check for a "warped" rotor. If you carefully rotate the wheel to a spot where you can feel the brake dragging, then rotate it 180 degrees, you can use fine feeler gauges between the pad and rotor to see if the rotor is warped, or just mounted crooked. I've also placed a bright light behind the trailing edge of the caliper (rear edge) and then looked down along the rotor/pad interface seeing if when I rotate the wheel the light gets brighter or dimmer, meaning the rotor is moving in relationship to the pad.

It's a frustrating problem, my K75S had it so many times I finally got tired of dealing with it and sold the bike.

BTW - when you installed the new rotors - you did tighten in a criss-cross pattern right? Using a torque wrench? If not you might try loosening the bolts and doing it.

BTW-II - what pads did you use when you installed the new rotors? EBC "HH"? They're moderately aggressive pads, and are good for keeping rotors clean.

 

[BobbyB26]

There is a problem with having a machine shop cut the mounting points - the rotors are supposed to be centered in the calipers. Without similar machining done to the calipers, or the use of some sort of shims under the mounting points you're going to be modifying the brake geometry in a way that might produce undesirable results.

It really isn't hard to check for a "warped" rotor. If you carefully rotate the wheel to a spot where you can feel the brake dragging, then rotate it 180 degrees, you can use fine feeler gauges between the pad and rotor to see if the rotor is warped, or just mounted crooked. I've also placed a bright light behind the trailing edge of the caliper (rear edge) and then looked down along the rotor/pad interface seeing if when I rotate the wheel the light gets brighter or dimmer, meaning the rotor is moving in relationship to the pad.

It's a frustrating problem, my K75S had it so many times I finally got tired of dealing with it and sold the bike.

BTW - when you installed the new rotors - you did tighten in a criss-cross pattern right? Using a torque wrench? If not you might try loosening the bolts and doing it.

BTW-II - what pads did you use when you installed the new rotors? EBC "HH"? They're moderately aggressive pads, and are good for keeping rotors clean.

Yeah, I used HH pads when I replaced, and I was carfull about torqueing in the correct pattern. When I replaced the rotors it got rid of the obvious pulsation of the old warped rotors, but not all together. I've compared my front brakes to my rear....rear is smooth as butter while the front has a shimmy....no longer a pulsation like before. Almost like it is double warped, but only slightly. I can still use my front brake, but it's not smooth like my back brake.

About the calipers- I thought that calipers where made to find center (within reason). I've always thought that both sides were independant of each other and hydrolically driven. They both come up to resistance from both sides and they self center???....or am I all wet on this?