Food For Thought

[kinterridge]

Tough to really win without becoming a martyr. Pay by the mile is coming for EV’s…….Why- cuz they can.
OM

"Pay by the mile". Do you think this is the equivalent of a fuel tax for road repairs etc. that they are missing out on? Also, do you foresee a metered device on your home charger to collect that equivalent in fuel tax or is this already in place? Just wondering.

 

[PGlaves]

"Pay by the mile". Do you think this is the equivalent of a fuel tax for road repairs etc. that they are missing out on? Also, do you foresee a metered device on your home charger to collect that equivalent in fuel tax or is this already in place? Just wondering.

Both schemes are intended to make up for lost fuel tax because road repairs remain necessary. I have often pondered the question why I pay the same amount of tax per gallon for my motorcycle as an F450 when that truck does maybe 100 times more damage to roadways? Not to mention the disparity in damage caused by semi-tractor trailer trucks and my little Ford Fiesta. I suspect that per-mile charges for all vehicles, based on the size and weight of the vehicle, would be a lot more equitable than per gallon taxes. Alas, this is the stuff for transportation think tanks and not for the real world.

 

[Lendog]

I don't think storing propane on the lot is a good idea here in fire country.

It could probably be converted, it's a Generac 16kw unit that looks like it has a little teeny Guzzi motor in it.

Tough to really win without becoming a martyr. Pay by the mile is coming for EV’s…….Why- cuz they can.
OM

It was only a matter of time, everyone else pays by the mile

 

[Lendog]

Holy smokes! You only use around 4KWH/day?? Am I reading that right? In the summer we use >100KWH/day (between 3-4,000KWH/mo).

I have a PTO diesel generator that I can use to power the house off my tractor and a few 100 gallons of diesel fuel (usually, not today; I need to go get more!!) stored on the property. In CA you have a lot less demand for heat and AC, but even on days where none of the units are running, I use way more than 4KWH/day. Each day of capacity for me on battery is around 30K in battery (using off the shelf options, I could build it cheaper if I wanted to DIY). Or, put another way, each day of capacity is 8-10 Powerwalls (at 8K each!).

We live in the south, so, in the summer, we use a LOT of AC (I have 3 compressors two 3 tons and 1 4 ton). So I'm not exactly the "typical" consumer!

I doubt that you could use 100Kwh/day in a residential structure

 

[Omega Man]

"Pay by the mile". Do you think this is the equivalent of a fuel tax for road repairs etc. that they are missing out on? Also, do you foresee a metered device on your home charger to collect that equivalent in fuel tax or is this already in place? Just wondering.

It would be accessed via the mileage notation on a yearly inspection report. Not sure on how, other than implementing yearly inspections, it would be done in States with no current yearly inspection program.
OM

 

[Lendog]

Both schemes are intended to make up for lost fuel tax because road repairs remain necessary. I have often pondered the question why I pay the same amount of tax per gallon for my motorcycle as an F450 when that truck does maybe 100 times more damage to roadways? Not to mention the disparity in damage caused by semi-tractor trailer trucks and my little Ford Fiesta. I suspect that per-mile charges for all vehicles, based on the size and weight of the vehicle, would be a lot more equitable than per gallon taxes. Alas, this is the stuff for transportation think tanks and not for the real world.

my commercial truck tags were 125$ for 10,000 pounds gross, my bike tags are 48$ at that is for 2 bikes

 

[Lendog]

It would be accessed via the mileage notation on a yearly inspection report. Not sure on how, other than implementing yearly inspections, it would be done in States with no current yearly inspection program.
OM

That’s just what we need, more jobs for the uninterested

 

[88bmwjeff]

PG&E is paying off the billions in fines they were assessed for the fires. That cost is being passed on to us, the consumers.

And rates will continue to climb as they work to pay them off.

And of course, they’re making a profit the whole way, so imho, it’s insult added to injury.

That's why I believe fining them is useless. All they do is pass the cost on to us. Those that have allowed PG&E to pay dividends to stockholders while we pay outrageously high rates because it's not fair to the stockholder should be strung up, tarred and feathered in my opinion. When people invest, there's risk and PG&E screwed-up big time. The stockholders, IMO, need to take a hit as well. No dividends while they catch up with maintenance is reasonable, IMO. Unfortunately, I live in a townhome and adding solar is way more complicated.

 

[52184]

It would be accessed via the mileage notation on a yearly inspection report. Not sure on how, other than implementing yearly inspections, it would be done in States with no current yearly inspection program.
OM

Utah has been exploring this, but there are issues. The state discontinued vehicle inspections several years ago, which is why we now see so many vehicles with balding tires, non-functional lights, and broken windshields. So a mileage check would require restarting some kind of inspection process. The next big issue is determining the geographic boundaries over which those miles were driven, as Utah taxing drivers for miles driven to/from other states is hardly fair nor palatable. And where I live there are large number of people who live in a neighboring state but commute here for work, and vice versa, which raises questions about taxation without representation. And lastly, any attempt to resolve the geographic problem runs into privacy issues. So to date, no progress toward another means of funding highway construction and maintenance.

As Lendog pointed out—“my commercial truck tags were 125$ for 10,000 pounds gross, my bike tags are 48$ at that is for 2 bikes”— a more equitable version of tagging vehicles would help, as well as more closely tying costs to the road damage potential of vehicles.

Best,
DeVern

 

[Omega Man]

That’s just what we need, more jobs for the uninterested

OM

 

[Omega Man]

Utah has been exploring this, but there are issues. The state discontinued vehicle inspections several years ago, which is why we now see so many vehicles with balding tires, non-functional lights, and broken windshields. So a mileage check would require restarting some kind of inspection process. The next big issue is determining the geographic boundaries over which those miles were driven, as Utah taxing drivers for miles driven to/from other states is hardly fair nor palatable. And where I live there are large number of people who live in a neighboring state but commute here for work, and vice versa, which raises questions about taxation without representation. And lastly, any attempt to resolve the geographic problem runs into privacy issues. So to date, no progress toward another means of funding highway construction and maintenance.

As Lendog pointed out—“my commercial truck tags were 125$ for 10,000 pounds gross, my bike tags are 48$ at that is for 2 bikes”— a more equitable version of tagging vehicles would help, as well as more closely tying costs to the road damage potential of vehicles.

Best,
DeVern

I don’t think fairness and equity is at the top of consideration, at least around here.
Over 3000 lbs rates are $20.00 per thousand- plus annual excise tax. My pickup truck = $200.00/yr plus excise. Bike registration is $20.00/yr plus excise. Purchase a new pickup results in a first year excise of around $1,300.00- 90% excise value.
Going from MA to RI on route 95 in a heavy truck results in a bill in the mail via overhead plate reading cameras, like the current toll-roads use. This could be the way mileage can be calculated for billing.
I never mind paying tolls in NH as their roads and road planning seems to get a good bang for the buck.
OM

 

[kbasa]

It would be accessed via the mileage notation on a yearly inspection report. Not sure on how, other than implementing yearly inspections, it would be done in States with no current yearly inspection program.
OM

I live in a state where we only have to get emissions tested every other year end and not at all for vehicles built prior to like the 1980s or something. Equipment issues that got surfaced by my annual inspection in Mass. are generally flagged with a "fix it" ticket here. If you can demonstrate within 30 days (I think) that you've remediated the failure, they close the ticket completely and it's gone.

I'm not sure how they'd inspect and record mileage on the number of vehicles in a state with 40 million people.

I always have to laugh when people start grousing about how I should pay a road tax for my 17 pound bicycle. What's next? A road tax on my shoes?

That's why I believe fining them is useless. All they do is pass the cost on to us. Those that have allowed PG&E to pay dividends to stockholders while we pay outrageously high rates because it's not fair to the stockholder should be strung up, tarred and feathered in my opinion. When people invest, there's risk and PG&E screwed-up big time. The stockholders, IMO, need to take a hit as well. No dividends while they catch up with maintenance is reasonable, IMO. Unfortunately, I live in a townhome and adding solar is way more complicated.

Have to agree with you.

Feels like the consumer is getting penalized, not PG&E. Not only are we paying the fines through our rates, but we're also paying for their profit, which was $2.2 Billion last year.

IMHO, they should be prevented from realizing profit until they've paid their fines and do so without raising rates for us consumers.

 

[mjfink420]

I doubt that you could use 100Kwh/day in a residential structure

No reason to doubt.. My neighbor is over 10K/mo, sometimes I feel like I need to keep up!

 

[kbasa]

No reason to doubt.. My neighbor is over 10K/mo, sometimes I feel like I need to keep up!


View attachment 97873

You used 3,188kwh. 100K was your meter reading. Your bill with PG&E would $1,000.

 

[r0ckrat]

You used 3,188kwh. 100K was your meter reading. Your bill with PG&E would $1,000.

31 days, 3100kWh, 100kWh per day... Even here in LB that would be expensive (not PG&E)...

 

[mjfink420]

You used 3,188kwh. 100K was your meter reading. Your bill with PG&E would $1,000.

That sounds lovely. I'll take my 380 dollar bill instead please.

Sorry, that wasn't clear, my neighbor uses around 10,000KWH/mo; that's REALLY high for this area, but 3000KWH/mo isn't really all that unusual. Everything in the house is electric, and in the south, we use a lot of AC and a lot of heat pump in the winter. My bill in the winter is lower, generally lows 3's to high 2's.

Our provider (Duke) has basically ended solar incentives, so I'm hopeful the pricing will remain low. Most of our power comes from a nearby nuclear facility, and, without a ton of solar and net metering, hopefully we'll continue to have a reasonable bill. If the rates climb, of course, solar starts to make more and more sense, but, with our current rate structure and disincentive for solar (you have to move to a time of use plan if you have solar, which is MUCH more expensive during peak times), it's just not even worth considering solar for the house today. Which, of course, is exactly what Duke wants; they are in the business of selling power; I'm sure they're happy to have me as a customer!

 

[speck.wisc]

I'm thankful that I'm old enough I should still be able to ride my bikes until I'm dead.

I’m with you on that one brother.

 

[Lendog]

I don’t think fairness and equity is at the top of consideration, at least around here.
Over 3000 lbs rates are $20.00 per thousand- plus annual excise tax. My pickup truck = $200.00/yr plus excise. Bike registration is $20.00/yr plus excise. Purchase a new pickup results in a first year excise of around $1,300.00- 90% excise value.
Going from MA to RI on route 95 in a heavy truck results in a bill in the mail via overhead plate reading cameras, like the current toll-roads use. This could be the way mileage can be calculated for billing.
I never mind paying tolls in NH as their roads and road planning seems to get a good bang for the buck.
OM

many modern vehicles have GPS integrated, tickets, & tolls, might start showing up in the mail,
I stopped carrying my phone on my k13 when I found out my phone knows how fast it’s going

 

[Lendog]

I think that's a matter of opinion. My '88 R100 RT has very little "gadgets of a car," while my '18 R1200 GS has a lot more similarities to that of car. I find the GS more fun than the RT. Not that the RT isn't fun--it is. I just find that I have a bit more fun on the GS. YMMV.

It is difficult to compare a 88’ RT to a 18’ GS, very different machines

 

[88bmwjeff]

It is difficult to compare a 88’ RT to a 18’ GS, very different machines

I agree that it's difficult to compare them, but I was commenting that the '18 GS was putting a bigger smile on my face than the '88 RT. And, that is a reasonable comparison, IMO. Of course, there are others out there that might have a different opinion.