Food For Thought

[PGlaves]

We can net meter here, but they lowered the rates of payback. The good solar folks are showing up and talking about battery storage so you can charge all day and then consume your stored energy when rates go higher in the early evening.

I think our intention is to install about 13kwh of storage, which would run this place for three days without any additional energy being added. We have a gas generator that's tied to the grid, but one of the concerns we have here are "red flag" days. On those days, which are high temps, high winds and low humidity, PG&E proactively turns the electricity off. Sounds great, right? The generator kicks in and we're ready to rock and roll with 16kws.

On those days, PG&E shuts off the gas, too, so we'll be in the dark. That's a big motivator for us to get on a solar generation and storage arrangement.

I'll say this, though. PG&E is at least aware of this and the issues it causes. If you have a 3kw generator, they'll wire up a transfer switch for your home so when the power goes out, you drag your generator out of the garage, plug it into the transfer switch and you've got safe power for selected circuits in your home.

If one is a Californian with PG&E, this might be really helpful for you. My old neighbor had them install one and it worked out great. They've since gone to solar, but no storage, so I'm not sure that really helps the way they'd hoped. Another neighbor added Tesla storage and their bill is like $100/year or something now, even with them charging their Model 3 and running two home offices.

Is a propane generator, run from an on-property propane tank a possibility? Can you convert from natural gas to propane on the unit you have?

 

[kbasa]

Is a propane generator, run from an on-property propane tank a possibility? Can you convert from natural gas to propane on the unit you have?

I don't think storing propane on the lot is a good idea here in fire country.

It could probably be converted, it's a Generac 16kw unit that looks like it has a little teeny Guzzi motor in it.

 

[r0ckrat]

Bury a fuel tank and get a diesel generator, powered with home heating oil... LOL!

 

[Omega Man]

For my neighbors, it was 3.5 years. Our quote for an Eaton battery array was a good bit less than the Tesla stuff. The folks we're happiest with get almost all of their stuff domestically and a majority of it from companies founded here in NorCal.

It doesn't take long to see why:
View attachment 97860

After trying to burn the state down because of deferred infrastructure maintenance back in 2018/2019, we're now paying for all that and electricity prices have gone through the roof. They have a series of price increases coming, so we're eager to consume as little of their gas or electricity as possible.

It doubled in cost in 20 years and since 2019, prices have gone up by almost double.

If anything, it's reasonable to assume that payback on the investment might be realized even sooner given the cost of procuring energy from PG&E.

I know. Local market conditions and all, but it might make sense in other places. It definitely makes sense here.

3.5 year payoff to break even on initial purchase would be nice. I would have to know what the initial cost was and do some math.
I rather doubt that PG&E was trying to burn the state down. If you look up “deferred maintenance”, you may be hinted to see- cities, towns, corporations and the like. My experience has been they really know what is going on and know that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, they “go ostrich” and start rehearsing the “whoa is us” chorus.
OM

 

[kbasa]

3.5 year payoff to break even on initial purchase would be nice. I would have to know what the initial cost was and do some math.
I rather doubt that PG&E was trying to burn the state down. If you look up “deferred maintenance”, you may be hinted to see- cities, towns, corporations and the like. My experience has been they really know what is going on and know that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, they “go ostrich” and start rehearsing the “whoa is us” chorus.
OM

I don't think it was intentional, but the failures that lead to the fire that burned a big chunk of my city down and all of Paradise were due to deferred maintenance.

It only reinforces my belief that public utilities should not be profit making. Our fires started in 2018 and here's how profitable they were about a year ahead of them:

View attachment 97862

 

[88bmwjeff]

I rather doubt that PG&E was trying to burn the state down. If you look up “deferred maintenance”,

It's become quite common knowledge here after several investigations that PG&E skipped on maintenance and gave the money out to the stockholders. I can't remember which fire it was, but the failed part was determined to be a ±100-year old insulator that should have been replaced. With regards to the San Bruno natural gas explosion, their records of what pipes were where ended up being below the industry standard--if my memory serves me correctly. The amount of their deferred maintenance classifies as negligence. PG&E has been convicted of felony charges with regards to the San Bruno Fire, the Camp Fire, and maybe others.

 

[kbasa]

Bury a fuel tank and get a diesel generator, powered with home heating oil... LOL!

I lived in Mass. for 25 years. NEVER AGAIN.

 

[kbasa]

It's become quite common knowledge here after several investigations that PG&E skipped on maintenance and gave the money out to the stockholders. I can't remember which fire it was, but the failed part was determined to be a ±100-year old insulator that should have been replaced. With regards to the San Bruno natural gas explosion, their records of what pipes were where ended up being below the industry standard--if my memory serves me correctly. The amount of their deferred maintenance classifies as negligence. PG&E has been convicted of felony charges with regards to the San Bruno Fire, the Camp Fire, and maybe others.

The failed line hangers are what precipitated the loss of 22 lives and 5700 homes here where I live. It's not like we're in the boondocks. When it started, it burned down a Home Depot, a huge hotel, and homes all over the NW quadrant of Santa Rosa. It was threatening our local hospital and all the medical infrastructure around it, as well.

For a fuller detail of what happened that year: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-northern-california-fires-structures/

The photos are stunning.

That's why this nutty Californian doesn't want to keep sending his money to PG&E.

 

[Omega Man]

It's become quite common knowledge here after several investigations that PG&E skipped on maintenance and gave the money out to the stockholders. I can't remember which fire it was, but the failed part was determined to be a ±100-year old insulator that should have been replaced. With regards to the San Bruno natural gas explosion, their records of what pipes were where ended up being below the industry standard--if my memory serves me correctly. The amount of their deferred maintenance classifies as negligence. PG&E has been convicted of felony charges with regards to the San Bruno Fire, the Camp Fire, and maybe others.

Try not to feel special. Here is what happened here in the northern town of Lawrence here in Taxachusetts, when they do maintenance.

Merrimack Valley gas explosions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

OM

 

[61996]

EV: A plan that doesn't work for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[mjfink420]

We can net meter here, but they lowered the rates of payback. The good solar folks are showing up and talking about battery storage so you can charge all day and then consume your stored energy when rates go higher in the early evening.

I think our intention is to install about 13kwh of storage, which would run this place for three days without any additional energy being added. We have a gas generator that's tied to the grid, but one of the concerns we have here are "red flag" days. On those days, which are high temps, high winds and low humidity, PG&E proactively turns the electricity off. Sounds great, right? The generator kicks in and we're ready to rock and roll with 16kws.

On those days, PG&E shuts off the gas, too, so we'll be in the dark. That's a big motivator for us to get on a solar generation and storage arrangement.

I'll say this, though. PG&E is at least aware of this and the issues it causes. If you have a 3kw generator, they'll wire up a transfer switch for your home so when the power goes out, you drag your generator out of the garage, plug it into the transfer switch and you've got safe power for selected circuits in your home.

If one is a Californian with PG&E, this might be really helpful for you. My old neighbor had them install one and it worked out great. They've since gone to solar, but no storage, so I'm not sure that really helps the way they'd hoped. Another neighbor added Tesla storage and their bill is like $100/year or something now, even with them charging their Model 3 and running two home offices.

Holy smokes! You only use around 4KWH/day?? Am I reading that right? In the summer we use >100KWH/day (between 3-4,000KWH/mo).

I have a PTO diesel generator that I can use to power the house off my tractor and a few 100 gallons of diesel fuel (usually, not today; I need to go get more!!) stored on the property. In CA you have a lot less demand for heat and AC, but even on days where none of the units are running, I use way more than 4KWH/day. Each day of capacity for me on battery is around 30K in battery (using off the shelf options, I could build it cheaper if I wanted to DIY). Or, put another way, each day of capacity is 8-10 Powerwalls (at 8K each!).

We live in the south, so, in the summer, we use a LOT of AC (I have 3 compressors two 3 tons and 1 4 ton). So I'm not exactly the "typical" consumer!

 

[kbasa]

Holy smokes! You only use around 4KWH/day?? Am I reading that right? In the summer we use >100KWH/day (between 3-4,000KWH/mo).

I have a PTO diesel generator that I can use to power the house off my tractor and a few 100 gallons of diesel fuel (usually, not today; I need to go get more!!) stored on the property. In CA you have a lot less demand for heat and AC, but even on days where none of the units are running, I use way more than 4KWH/day. Each day of capacity for me on battery is around 30K in battery (using off the shelf options, I could build it cheaper if I wanted to DIY). Or, put another way, each day of capacity is 8-10 Powerwalls (at 8K each!).

We live in the south, so, in the summer, we use a LOT of AC (I have 3 compressors two 3 tons and 1 4 ton). So I'm not exactly the "typical" consumer!

We use almost no AC and winters are mild. Summer temps might be in the 80s, but the humidity will be like today at 30%, so AC isn't always needed. In our last house, we had no AC and really only wanted it a couple weeks a year when it got over 100. Additionally, at night it doesn't stay hot here. Even in the summer, overnight temps will be low 60s to mid 50s. I turned the HVAC off on Sunday and it's been off since then. It's 86 right now, but not humid, so I've got a ceiling fan running here in my office.

We live in a "Mediterranean climate" with wet and dry seasons, super moderate temps and generally low humidity. Take running HVAC 24/7 out of the mix and it's amazing how little power you can get by with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate People often believe that Florida and the Gulf Coast have the same warm weather as California, which isn't remotely true. For instance, nobody has screened porches here because with a dry season, there aren't any mosquitoes. There's no standing water for them to breed in. I have a pond out back and put some mosquito larvicide in it and that's it. No mosquitoes. The ones that do hatch get taken care of by the dragonflies.

Plus, we're two adults, so we run like loads of laundry a week and only have two showers/person/day at most, though we cook most every day.

I'd have to dig into my bills a little, but yeah, that seems right. You can do the math at $.38/kwh and it's pretty evident why solar adoption and storage is strong here in the Golden State.

 

[kickstandsup]

What holds EV back right now is the charging infrastructure and "time to charge." Solve those problems and adoption will soar; car, bike, whatever.

Had a deposit on a Rivian, got in before the price increase, but cancelled b/c road trips require staying on the interstate and frequenting WalMart parking lots for extended periods of time. Not my jam.

Our new Cayenne should be delivered in August...likely my last vehicle, and I'm ok with that...

 

[r0ckrat]

We have a spot in line for an Aptera. 40 miles of charging daily from sunshine (built-in solar) and are signed up for the 400 mile range version. The car is so efficient it uses the battery capacity equivalent of a Fiat 500e (~100 mile range) for that 400 miles. The entire car has the same drag coefficient as an F-150's side mirror.

Yes, it's a 2-seat, 3-wheel, funky looking "car", but if we ever need something more, a few days rental is cheaper than owning something for the 1-10% use case.

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

aptera.us

 

[Ponch1]

EVs are the future, but for whom? What I mean is, if you're under a certain age/have x years driving/riding left, it's not such a pressing matter. For those with 20 years or more left, it's a bigger deal. The thing for me is, I want to retire and as it is, I am not interested in paying what it costs to buy a BMW I would buy or any other bike in that price range, so I have to keep what I have on the road so to speak. It's one of those shouldas and couldas. At this point, screw it.

 

[mjfink420]

I'd have to dig into my bills a little, but yeah, that seems right. You can do the math at $.38/kwh and it's pretty evident why solar adoption and storage is strong here in the Golden State.

What I don't get, for these wildly high prices utility providers, what's the end game?? The higher rates go, the more sense solar makes. At 38c/KWH, you're getting into the range where solar + battery starts to make sense. And the price of solar+battery falls every year, while rates seem to climb.

So... What's the end game here? Utilities are in the business of selling power, if they price themselves too high, everyone who can will disconnect and just go self-generating. Is the end game to only serve the "captive audience" (those in cities who can't put up solar)? I just don't get it, Duke's strategy (my provider), while I'm not crazy about it as a consumer, it makes a lot of sense from a business perspective. If you don't have solar, we'll sell power cheap (~10c/KWH). If you do have solar, we're going to jack up your rates, incentivizing less solar (competition) and continuing to capture significant revenue from those with panels. Again, not a fan of it as a customer, but, if I were an investor, the strategy makes sense; do everything you can do to keep competition out of the market and sell as much power as possible..

It's only a matter of time until utility delivered power is for the lower income households (who can't deal with the cost of solar/rent/etc) and city residents. Is that the goal? Squeeze those you can and try to generate the most $$ off the fewest KWH sold?

 

[kbasa]

PG&E is paying off the billions in fines they were assessed for the fires. That cost is being passed on to us, the consumers.

And rates will continue to climb as they work to pay them off.

And of course, they’re making a profit the whole way, so imho, it’s insult added to injury.

 

[Omega Man]

PG&E is paying off the billions in fines they were assessed for the fires. That cost is being passed on to us, the consumers.

And rates will continue to climb as they work to pay them off.

And of course, they’re making a profit the whole way, so imho, it’s insult added to injury.

correctamundo.​

They wouldn’t have it any other way.
OM

 

[kbasa]

correctamundo.​

They wouldn’t have it any other way.
OM

If folks are wondering why those crazy Californians are all on about their solar and EVs, now you know why.

 

[Omega Man]

If folks are wondering why those crazy Californians are all on about their solar and EVs, now you know why.

Tough to really win without becoming a martyr. Pay by the mile is coming for EV’s…….Why- cuz they can.
OM