Cost of Oil and Filters

[doktortim]

A lot if interesting, and good, information in that post. I'm just not clear on this last item. I didn't think the guy was saying he wanted to pay $5 for an oil filter, just that he wasn't too happy paying over four times that for a "BMW" one. And, personally, I can't blame him. I guess you could reverse it and say, "If you want to pay top dollar for every item on the machine, an Airhead is the perfect choice."

Well, I'm in the same boat. I need the same filters. I can't find a kit for less than $20 either. I don't like it better than anyone else. It's the nature of the beast.

Of course ask the question, it's so obvious. How can that little filter and few bits cost twice the price of a Mercedes Diesel kit 10 times the size??? I got no answer except, it just does.

 

[jconway607]

You guys are both right. The best thing to do is to check around and pick the best parts for the best price. And, also quite true, all of us are in the same boat as far as the parts/cost situation goes. I try not to let it bother me too much any more. At least I am only supporting one airhead. It's got to be tougher on the guys with two or three of them. My only point in responding to the original guy's post was to let him know that, like you say, we all have the same situation. Just a little empathy for him.

 

[Icebat]

What was that commercial from years ago with the car going down a rural road with black smoke from the exhaust obscuring the road behind? The driver saying something like "parts is parts", "earl is earl". Well, yes and no. Funny in that I agree with most of what has been said, even though there may be contradictions. I absolutely agree that oil is the lifeblood and it's important to have a quality oil in an an engine. BMW obviously sells oil under its brand that meets specs for its own engines. As this thread shows though, there are others out there that do as well. My initial question was to ask what else is out there. The responses have shown what to look for in an oil. Filters, not so much.

The funny thing is, with the cost of gas and oil today, I'm not really all that surprised at $8.50 per quart. It's not THAT outrageous. Even understanding economics 101, I AM surprised at $21.00 plus for a filter. That same entry level course would say that someone else will figure out that they can produce a profitable filter that meets specs for less. Doesn't seemed to have happened. 10,000 airheads times 3 or 4 oil changes a year is not chump change.

 

[8ninety8]

if I could jump in

I've never run on a Kenda tire before this month. Find'em soft, you know, grippy, I'll let you know how long they last.

Oil, last few changes went with Valvo-20/50 motorcyle dino. Filters?, stock, the straight ones. Look inside, there's a ring brace thing that holds the filter open, i.e. keeps the internal tube from collapsing.

Awhile back I bought the typical cheap, seven dollar KN, and the first one could hardly be pulled out the chamber because it had collapsed onto the internal tube. STrange?, but true, many others may have had similar experience.

One other thing, considering the extreme lifter pressure in the 247, I have a hard time excepting that moly wouldn't have a positive effective in this high pressure area. ANd yet, every thread concerning moly and its use in the 247 strickly warns against using this additive, or any additive. Have never heard any reasonable oil expert explain why moly should be forbotten. I don't use it in the 247, but have been using it for many years in my 240 Volvo, Liqui-Moly, with no problems. Spins like a well oiled sewing machine.

Moly here, moly there, but not in the engine, go figure.

 

[dduelin]

For me there is the need to buy BMW filters not not their oil. The don't make these, they just buy them from an oil company or filter and brand the product BMW but I think it is important to use 20-50w oil rated SG or SH. Newer oils rated SL or SM have less of the anti-wear additive ZDDP in them. Using this logic pretty much rules out "car" oil for me as it is mostly moved on from the older SG/SH ratings to SL/SM.

I second the suggestion to go to AutoZone before the end of May and get a few (or a lot) oil changes of SG/SH rated motorcycle oil for $1.99 a quart.

 

[PGlaves]

I've never run on a Kenda tire before this month. Find'em soft, you know, grippy, I'll let you know how long they last.

Oil, last few changes went with Valvo-20/50 motorcyle dino. Filters?, stock, the straight ones. Look inside, there's a ring brace thing that holds the filter open, i.e. keeps the internal tube from collapsing.

Awhile back I bought the typical cheap, seven dollar KN, and the first one could hardly be pulled out the chamber because it had collapsed onto the internal tube. STrange?, but true, many others may have had similar experience.

One other thing, considering the extreme lifter pressure in the 247, I have a hard time excepting that moly wouldn't have a positive effective in this high pressure area. ANd yet, every thread concerning moly and its use in the 247 strickly warns against using this additive, or any additive. Have never heard any reasonable oil expert explain why moly should be forbotten. I don't use it in the 247, but have been using it for many years in my 240 Volvo, Liqui-Moly, with no problems. Spins like a well oiled sewing machine.

Moly here, moly there, but not in the engine, go figure.

The problem posed when moly was tried by some folks in the '80s was that it didn't always stay in suspension and accumulated places it wasn't helpful, like in oil passages creating flow and or pressure problems. It may have had something to do with how coursly or finely it was ground, but it is a solid which can clog small passages, or so we were told by Oak back in the '80s.

I have used moly in transmissions and final drives for about 25 years. I mistakenly used it in a K75 engine once. There was no engine problem, but the moly coated the sight glass so thoroughly that it took two oil changes without moly before I could tell the oil level in the sight glass. Fortunately that K75 didn't burn oil to need any between changes so I wasn't too worried, but I never used moly in an engine again.

 

[wecm31]

does your r80 weep oil using amsiol. I would like to use it but told it would make my r80rt weep 0il. I use it in everything .

Drifting dangerously close to an oil thread here....

I have read of synthetic oils being harder on seals, lack of swelling I believe. My bike has been on synthetic since the PO ( who BTW has a Phd in Metallurgy and only ever ran synthetic Mobil in his airheads, for what ever thats worth) bought it in the early 90s. It was leaking at the push rods seals when I got it, and the replacements have been good 7 or 8 years now. I have redone the rear main seal and oil pump cover, no trouble in years as well. I think these bikes are going to leak out of 30 year old seals at some point, syn oil or not....

 

[osbornk]

Drifting dangerously close to an oil thread here....

I have read of synthetic oils being harder on seals, lack of swelling I believe. My bike has been on synthetic since the PO ( who BTW has a Phd in Metallurgy and only ever ran synthetic Mobil in his airheads, for what ever thats worth) bought it in the early 90s. It was leaking at the push rods seals when I got it, and the replacements have been good 7 or 8 years now. I have redone the rear main seal and oil pump cover, no trouble in years as well. I think these bikes are going to leak out of 30 year old seals at some point, syn oil or not....

Seems like you went to a lot of trouble and expense to be able to use synthetic oil. The PO of my R80RT had just changed to synthetic when I got it. I also began to leak at the pushrod seals. I changed back to Dino and they stopped leaking. They have not leaked in the 12 or 13 years since.

 

[Yarddog]

Ok, so I'm less informed than you Ikchris. I appreciate your perspective and knowledge. But implying I'm a sucker and leaving it at that isn't a response or much help to the second part of my post - asking for recommendations for other, less expensive alternatives to BMW branded products.

He told it like it was, my man!!! It's a bummer that folks can't do that any more with hackin' somebody off, but...bummer days...back to the topic...I'm with those that don't see a dern thing special about OEM oil and filters... Most of those are made by run of the mill suppliers, and I believe frequent oil changes is far more important than the brand of oil, as long as it has in it what the bike needs, and oil filters that aren't gonna come apart in my engine.

 

[Yarddog]

Drifting dangerously close to an oil thread here....

It IS another oil thread...it started out as such, and the rest of us bit on it...

 

[GeorgeRyals]

BMW parts Substitutes

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/partsubs.shtml

 

[helmut_head]

My opinion.

Holy crap, Batman. I picked up a filter online- $14.00. Then, I use Lucas oil and hypoid gear lube. I think my total was around $32.00 for filter and lube.

As long as the lube meets the BMW specifications, it's OK. I never put synthetic in any engine. It increases the carbon build up in the combustion chamber- dino oil only. However, synth is supposedly good for the gears. The "supposedly" has not swayed me yet. It all gets changed too often to worry about. Oils today have lots of detergents/additives and will not break down unless you hold a torch to 'em. Abuse is not assumed in my statements!

 

[bikerfish1100]

: I never put synthetic in any engine. It increases the carbon build up in the combustion chamber- dino oil only.

really? have never heard anything like that before. Any evidence or writeups to support that statement?
I googled the subject, http://www.bing.com/search?q=sythetic+oil+carbon+buildup&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC and the closest i could get was some sites that talked about synth being especially formulated to reduce carbon build up, with one oil manufacturer even offering a half million mile motor warranty!

 

[lkchris]

A number of years back--before the legendary ZDDP disappeared--I converted to 9.5 pistons and at that time noticed lifter pitting. This with Castrol GTX 20W/50. There simply is ZERO testing of this concept to relate it to the motor oil.

 

[PHMARVIN]

Hi, Kent,
I had a 1984 R100RS, serial # 6227336, the next-to-last dual shock R100RS, USA spec, produced. In 1996, with 64k miles on it, I traded it on a '95 R100RT. The valves were shot, so the dealer had the heads off for valves and seats. I saw the lifters and they looked as if they had wormholes. I had changed oil regularly, always using Castrol GTX 20w50. I don't think I had an oil problem; I think it was a factory heat treatment problem. It sounds as if you've had the same problem.

 

[helmut_head]

really? have never heard anything like that before. Any evidence or writeups to support that statement?
I googled the subject, http://www.bing.com/search?q=sythetic+oil+carbon+buildup&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC and the closest i could get was some sites that talked about synth being especially formulated to reduce carbon build up, with one oil manufacturer even offering a half million mile motor warranty!

Hi bikerfish!

It is true. I spent many cold mornings at mile accumulation dynos waiting for an oil consumption issue to turn to coldstart carbon knock on alot of vehicles/engines. Nine times out of ten, synthetic built up more and knocked before the dino oil. You may debate the validity of this "data", but I truly lived through this expereince.

Think about some of the products out there that make claims that are untrue. There are alot of companies that make fuel additives that claim they will clean carbon out of your combustion chamber. They do clean your fuel system, but they never address the combustion chamber. Another.......Slick 50, my ass. Then there are those intake vortex devices that add swirl, but choke airflow to get your computer to send less fuel per the MAF/MAP/AFR sensor readings..

Regardless of the means by which oil can get into a combustion chamber, the residue left after it burns is more dependent on the composition of the oil....Synthetics leave more residue, unless something has changed. Synthetic will lubricate better than dino in the long run, but that is why we change our oil so it doesn't need to work with combustion soot in it.

Ultimately if you are getting oil in the chamber, it's best to fix the problem so the carbon doesn't form. At that point synthetic, will lubricate longer, maybe slightly better. If it's getting in, use dino oil. I've looked in my chambers and don't like everything I see. Not real bad, but oil is getting through somewhere, probably the rings.

 

[bikerfish1100]

Hi bikerfish!

Ultimately if you are getting oil in the chamber, it's best to fix the problem so the carbon doesn't form. At that point synthetic, will lubricate longer, maybe slightly better. If it's getting in, use dino oil. I've looked in my chambers and don't like everything I see. Not real bad, but oil is getting through somewhere, probably the rings.

with that included stipulation, i can accept your conclusion. otherwise, synth holds most of the cards over dino.

 

[helmut_head]

Carbon.

I didn't intend to read lawyerly. Only speaking the truth. We had many synthetic oil supp"liars" claiming reduced carbon build up as your websites indicate. All were disproved and crawled away with their tails between their legs.

One claimed a fuel additive that ate carbon...What a joke they were!

 

[miairhead]

Napa

http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/motorcycle.asp

Sure looks like a OEM if you don't have oil cooler

 

[galaxie]

oil filters

what does everyone think of two piece fram filters