Comparison of Driving Lights?

[deilenberger]

Don, how about these?


http://www.powerbulbs.com/us/store/category/cibie-oscar-leds

Kent - that's encouraging. Cibie is and has been known for producing exceptionally good lighting for many years (I bought my first "driving lights" - CIBIE - about 5.5 decades ago..) I think as far as lighting engineering - easily the equal of Bosch and Hella.

I think I'd love them, but mounting even one 7" light on the R1200R would be a bit of a challenge. It does give me hope that some of the more experienced lighting manufacturers are going to start taking LED lights seriously. When they do - I'm sure we'll see some exceptional designs. The "point light source" is actually an excellent light source for a properly engineered reflector. Much easier to shape a point then a line (like a filament gives, or an HID capsule produces.) And you don't really need a huge light/reflector with an LED source - you just need a properly optically engineered one.

FWIW - the "OSCAR" line of Cibie's have been around almost as long as I have - and have always had a great reputation among car-rally enthusiasts.

 

[deilenberger]

Since it's been about 2 months since I last searched for "LED Driving Lights" - I thought I'd do it again and see if anything new has surfaced.. and it has. PIAA now apparently is making two smaller model - dual LED lights - one for "fog" (wide flat beam) one for "driving" (more focused beam oval shaped and optimized for distance.)

From the look of them - they might just work with my R1200R - mounted on the fork tubes.

Driving light: http://www.piaa.com/store/p/657-PIAA-LP270-2-75-LED-Driving-Light-Kit-SAE-Compliant.aspx

Fog light: http://www.piaa.com/store/p/656-PIAA-LP270-2-75-LED-Fog-Light-Kit-SAE-Compliant.aspx

And a VERY interesting (to me) cube light: http://www.piaa.com/RF3drv-PS

All of these use reflector technology for beam shaping, and the one video for the cube one showed a pattern that looked very good to me. Very little close light-fall, almost no light above the horizon, and good distance reach without too wide a beam. They also allow for rotation of the reflector portion to match the case orientation, which to me means there actually IS some beam shaping being done by the reflector.

One of these designs may end up on my bike.. (and I've never been a big PIAA fan - always thought they were marketing over engineering, but in this case they might well prove me wrong.) UPDATE - found them on Amazon for less then $200 for a two light kit. They'll be here Thursday. I'll update the thread once I do a bit of beam pattern analysis. I ordered the driving light version. You can find them on Amazon by searching for: PIAA 73272 LP270

Now to figure out how to mount them..

 

[sailorlite]

I'm beginning to pay some attention to the aux. light concept. In a sentence or two, what kind of aux lights am I seeing at the dealer on GSA's and some other models? Are they halogen, HID, xenon, LED, or what? Apart from their cost, are they any good or should I just forget about them and go to the PIAA's mentioned above?

 

[deilenberger]

I'm beginning to pay some attention to the aux. light concept. In a sentence or two, what kind of aux lights am I seeing at the dealer on GSA's and some other models? Are they halogen, HID, xenon, LED, or what? Apart from their cost, are they any good or should I just forget about them and go to the PIAA's mentioned above?

You'll see all kinds - some halogens (most PIAA's except for a few LED lights using the "Reflector Facing" design, also BMW, Bosch and Hella) some HID (Bosch, BMW), "xenon" isn't a light type - it's marketing to imply HID in a halogen light, LED - Clearwater and the others on the dealers parts counter with buttons to push and blind yourself.

Are they any good - depends on who made them and what engineering went into them. In general - GOOD manufacturer's better quality lines (Hella makes a line of inexpensive lights - which aren't very good - and the line of "FF" lights which are very good - all halogen, Bosch/BMW only make good quality, LED - all over the field. Some are very bright IMHO - and not very good for actual night lighting.)

I tend to be very conservative on lights, and go for what I think will provide what I need in a light. Which is: a good tightly controlled pattern without a lot of high or low or scattered light - ie - flatish tight pattern) to be used to enhance my "distance night vision." Other people want "conspicuity" - ie - an annoying light that people see during the day.

The problem is - the two needs require two different kinds of light in order to work well to fulfill the need. (And some people DO that by mounting more then one kind of light on their bikes.)

For distance night lighting use - the Hella FF50's (and other FF models) are excellent in a driving light pattern. Most BMW/Bosch lights are excellent (somewhat expensive, especially the HID ones). Cibie - excellent. And I'm hoping (and betting) the PIAA LED Reflector-Facing lights will be excellent.

The PIAA LED's aren't hugely expensive if you snag the Amazon deal - less then $200 for the pair with the wiring kit. Seems an OK deal to me. Hella FF50's can sometimes be found for well under $100 a pair if you shop the web wisely.

For conspicuity daytime use - probably one of the LED lights that has forward facing LEDs is a good choice. They annoy me right in the showroom, so chances are good that oncoming drivers will be annoyed and see you. The nicely packaged/controlled ones in the dealers showrooms tend to be quite expensive (IMHO) - there are aftermarket sources for very similar lights at a fraction of the price (generally sourced from China.)

Using more LED sources to obtain more light for enhanced night vision may be counterproductive IMHO on the forward facing LED lights - due to the effect of poorly directed/scattered light on both your eyes and the eyes of the oncoming driver. Using more LED sources in forward facing LED lights for conspicuity probably works quite well.

Depends on what you're seeking. I don't think there is one single answer to both needs.

Oh - cram course on lighting terms and vehicle lighting marketing:

• HID = High Intensity Discharge (a high voltage source strikes an arc between two points and the arc provides the light. Upside - lots of light, long lasting. Downside - bulky "ballast" required and cost.)
• LED = Light Emitting Diode (electricity is applied to a semiconductor and as it flows through the semiconductor it knocks electrons from one state to another, causing the emission of some photons - which is what light is made of. Upsides - inexpensive to make in quantity, fairly efficient - more electricity turned into light then heat, long-lasting if not "overdriven", rugged - nothing terribly fragile to break due to impacts or physical shocks.)
• Halogen - a type of bulb that uses a rare gas - usually xenon and some others - to allow running the filament in the bulb much hotter then a standard vacuum type bulb. There is something called the "halogen cycle" which uses the very hot quartz "bulb" to take evaporated filament and re-deposit it on the filament. Upside - inexpensive, well developed design, and well developed optics to make the best use of the light. Downsides - shorter life then LED or HID, and fairly inefficient - more energy is converted to heat then to light. So more "power" is needed to get the same amount of light.)
• XENON - the gas used in both HID lights and most halogen lights. Often used as marketing hype to imply a halogen light (cheap) is an HID light (expensive.)
• Laser - Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation (and I knew the guy who invented the laser.. a long lone time ago.) Just coming on the market on a few very high end automobiles. Think of these as an LED on steroids. By reflecting the light in the semiconductor back and forth internally you knock more photons loose and get a LOT more light generally in a very focused pattern. LEDs are "diffuse" Lasers are "collimated". It's where vehicle lighting will be going in a few years once the high-end autos use enough to get the per-unit price down to an aftermarket price point. The big plus for it - extremely efficient - so lots of light for very little power consumption.

 

[deilenberger]

Just a quick note - the PIAA LED "Driving" lights arrived today. They are not on the bike yet (some thought on mounting options continues), but some first impressions (hooked up to a spare MC battery I keep on a charger):

• - They are very bright. Surprisingly so to me. Several times brighter then the MotoBozzo (Microflooder) halogen 55W lights now on the bike. "Reach" (distance they illuminate) is also much longer then the halogen lights. White beam - makes the halogen looks almost yellow by comparison.
• - They have a nice tight driving beam pattern, with very sharp cutoff on top and bottom (exactly what I was looking for) - PIAA says 30 degree horizontal dispersion angle, and I see no reason to doubt them.
• - They come with an extensive wiring harness - and like most other moto lights not specifically made for motorcycles - the wiring is WAY too long (meant to be installed on a truck usually.) That will require some trimming down to fit neatly on the bike.
• - Heavier then I expected. Looks like cast aluminum casing, steel U bracket and bolt. Very nicely made and finished, and some impressive water sealing on the wiring going into the lamp housing.
• - Slightly larger then I expected - but the layout drawing on the PIAA website (and above) IS accurate.

I'm heading away for a moto-event this weekend, so it will be sometime next week when I get to installing them - but I'm looking forward to the results. So far I'm not disappointed in my decision to buy them.

 

[075038]

I bought one Light Force Driving light and love it. Old school Xenon, its large but just as wide as my K100RS left mirror on a K1100 mirror extender.
The beam is so tight I only use it with High Beam at night. It gets any animal etc. 7 seconds down straight roads. The beam is barely wide enough to light the signs next to the road which is a great feature because modern signs are so reflective they tend to ruin your night vision.

My Light Force is mounted so it sticks out sideways, so you buy a special OSRAM 50W or 75 W bulb with a vertical (radial) filament that generates a round beam. The more common horizontal filament generates a wide beam, that for me would go up and down. Years ago I was hoping for the LED PIAA reflector designed lights but when they came out the beam was very wide which for me would be up and down, not wanted.

Glad to hear some promise with Don's new LED PIAA purchase, a smaller unit and more efficient.


I wrote an older post or two about this Light Force upgrade that I am glad I did.

 

[deilenberger]

Update.. I'm limited in bandwidth at the moment (out of country.. no data plan here..) so I'll post a link to a writeup I did for another forum on the PIAA LED lights.

Summary - they're on the bike, and I like the results..

http://www.r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=34545

BTW - if you're an Amazon Prime member - there is a deal on them for less then $200 for a pair. List is $350, and most places are selling them for around $300. Convinced me to join Prime.

 

[pffog]

Link to thew Amazon deal?? Looked and found nothing.

Thanks

 

[lkraus]

I looked and found a couple listings near that price last night. This morning, the closest I can find are all about $100 more.

Don got a deal!

 

[pffog]

I have been lucky at times too, guess you can't win them all

 

[deilenberger]

Link to thew Amazon deal?? Looked and found nothing.

Thanks

It was an Amazon Prime deal - and there were a limited number of the lights (it was down to 8 remaining the beginning of last week when a friend bought a set..)

I'm sure something close will reappear.. no one was selling these and losing money, so it means someone else (or Amazon again) can sell for that price.

 

[bernie]

I also have the Krista's and Darla's. I also have the amber covers for the Darla's that I put on during the daytime. The really light up the road. At night with the Krista's shoot out a beam for almost a mile. I do a lot of night riding and won't be without the Darla's or the Krista's.

Bernie

 

[bernie]

Anyname - I'm curious (as an R1200R owner) - where/how are they mounted? The mounting points on an R1200R are quite limited. My old one I had the LumaLink brackets on the fork tubes with Hella FF50's hanging off the bottom. That worked well - but I was hoping for something a bit more elegant. What did you use to mount them, and where?

I have a '13 RT. I mounted the Krista's under the mirrors and the Darla's on the forks.

Bernie

 

[bernie]

Since it's been about 2 months since I last searched for "LED Driving Lights" - I thought I'd do it again and see if anything new has surfaced.. and it has. PIAA now apparently is making two smaller model - dual LED lights - one for "fog" (wide flat beam) one for "driving" (more focused beam oval shaped and optimized for distance.)

From the look of them - they might just work with my R1200R - mounted on the fork tubes.

Driving light: http://www.piaa.com/store/p/657-PIAA-LP270-2-75-LED-Driving-Light-Kit-SAE-Compliant.aspx

Fog light: http://www.piaa.com/store/p/656-PIAA-LP270-2-75-LED-Fog-Light-Kit-SAE-Compliant.aspx

And a VERY interesting (to me) cube light: http://www.piaa.com/RF3drv-PS

All of these use reflector technology for beam shaping, and the one video for the cube one showed a pattern that looked very good to me. Very little close light-fall, almost no light above the horizon, and good distance reach without too wide a beam. They also allow for rotation of the reflector portion to match the case orientation, which to me means there actually IS some beam shaping being done by the reflector.

One of these designs may end up on my bike.. (and I've never been a big PIAA fan - always thought they were marketing over engineering, but in this case they might well prove me wrong.) UPDATE - found them on Amazon for less then $200 for a two light kit. They'll be here Thursday. I'll update the thread once I do a bit of beam pattern analysis. I ordered the driving light version. You can find them on Amazon by searching for: PIAA 73272 LP270

Now to figure out how to mount them..

At the rally in Billings Clearwater Light booth in the vender building was just around the corner from PIAA. It seemed the traffic at Clearwater was at least double to that of PIAA.

 

[deilenberger]

At the rally in Billings Clearwater Light booth in the vender building was just around the corner from PIAA. It seemed the traffic at Clearwater was at least double to that of PIAA.

And that means what?

I'd say better marketing - blinding people with the lights in daylight is gonna impress them. Not so much at night IMHO.

 

[bdfbeemer]

And that means what?

I'd say better marketing - blinding people with the lights in daylight is gonna impress them. Not so much at night IMHO.

Light threads are becoming like oil threads.

 

[bernie]

I am happy with the ClearWater Darla driving lights on my R1200R

DITTO Darla's and Krista's. Make night into daytime.

 

[jamesevans]

I just fitted a pair of Speed Demon lights to my R1200RS. Very nice quality, lots of light and check out the price!
http://www.speeddemonlights.com/4pack-hd-infinity-driving-light-amber.html