BMW parts made in China...WTF!

[CTHalk]

Why buy bearings at BMW..instead of a bearing house

I figured I would help keep the shop going. I replaced the rear wheel bearings on a friends Jag. Dealer price on the bearings was about $60 and $40 each. I got the same spec bearings at a bearing supply house for $7 and $5 each. I'm going back to that place, even though it is a drive. By the way, I hear the local BMW dealer is giving up their BMW frachise (bought by a major HD dealer) and will now carry polaris products and.... Moto Guzzi!

 

[flash412]

Nice way to talk about your fellow club members.

Only the ones who pay a premium for goods that are available a multitude of other places, often better quality, always for less money such as light bulbs, fuses, bearings, seals, tires, oil, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, I know the "party line"... "But THIS one has a ROUNDEL(!) on the wrapper and therefore it MUST be better!"

Does it leave any sort of rash when they remove your wool?

 

[mika]

Why: Comfort level

Keep in mind flash that many do not have your experience with bikes or as an engineer. They feel confident enough to do the work but not to shop in alternative sources for parts. They can find the BMW part number, search for the best price and order it. Good bad or indifferent as the quality may be they have the specified part.

Perhaps something like ÔÇô How to shop for parts in alternative sources - could be an article you could write for the forum or ON. Share some of your knowledge. Barnum was speaking about the uniformed and lazy. If we are buying bearings to work on our own bikes we are not lazy, but we may need some better information.

 

[hlothery]

Seems like some people need to wake up and smell the global economy. It's naive to think or care that your German bike is 100% German made, and believe that it really matters. American made, German made, Made in Japan, they are all technical terms now, as parts and pieces are made where ever the labor is cheap, they are assembled here and there, and through some technical mumbo jumbo are allowed to stick the preffered "Made In" tag on them.

My Mini's engine is made in Brazil, the transmission in Germany, some of the electronics in the US, and it is all assembled in England. Great car, BTW.

 

[flash412]

How to shop for parts in alternative sources

Perhaps something like ÔÇô How to shop for parts in alternative sources - could be an article you could write for the forum or ON. Share some of your knowledge. Barnum was speaking about the uniformed and lazy. If we are buying bearings to work on our own bikes we are not lazy, but we may need some better information.

At the risk of casting pearls before swine... Anybody who is buying a bearing has one to look at. The bearing has a manufacturer's name and a bearing number on it. Any bearing house can cross it. They can do the same with seals. But seals generally say what size they are. Occasionally a BMW parts drawing will even tell you. A light bulb? Please... take it to Autozone or Cragans or whatever your nearest cheapo cage bits place is. Fuses? Same thing. Oil? Unlike the religious zealots out there, I used actual science to determine that oil is oil in my bike. I buy mine by the gallon at WalMart. Nuff said.

Don't argue with me about oil unless you have assays run on your oil in your bike to back up what you believe is truth. (And to think they recently opened a "science museum" dedicated to creationism in Kentucky. Sheesh.)

There is this thing called the World Wide Web. And there is a thing called a search engine. Google.com is a good one. You'll be amazed what men in the box-trucks will bring you if you have an internet connection and a credit card. They will deliver stuff to your home or place of employment faster and cheaper and with a LOT less aggravation than your local dealer can or will, even genuine BMW parts. Unlike YOUR local BMW shop, there ARE dealers that stock stuff and some of them even sell at a DISCOUNT.

If BMW had a lick of sense, they'd supply EVERY owner with parts directly from the warehouse via the shipping mode of your choice based on your desire, situation and wallet. Then they'd credit the local dealer by zipcode with a few percent profit. But, noooo, no more Vehicle Off Road for the people who actually ride and want or need to buy parts. THAT attitude is what started me looking for alternative sources every chance I get.

NEVER buy an electrical part without first checking with your local Napa or CarQuest or other REAL car parts chain, or else with the local Japanese or European bike suppliers as seems appropriate, first. Same goes for brake parts. Check only bike shops for brake parts, however.

Here's an example. My local NAPA sold me a thermostatic fan switch for my F650 for $18. BMW list price is $27. I didn't even bother to ask my local dealer because I KNOW he doesn't stock it because he doesn't stock anything. He often charges more than list. AND the BMW dealer hits my credit card the day I order it, not the day some weeks later when he manages to let me know it is available for pickup. What exactly did he do to earn the float on MY money for parts he doesn't even have? Anyway, the $18 fan switch fits... BMW cars. Go figure. I saved $9, two weeks and about 15 miles worth of gasoline and time.

I don't care if my local dealer goes out of business. Apparently neither does BMW. If they did, they'd wise up. I haven't been in there since about March, when I went in for some Ducati valve shims. Funny thing is, they traded me straight across. So they didn't make any money off me for the (Ducati) parts that they DO happen to have in stock. I have learned not to ask my local dealer for parts. I have learned that pretty much ANYWHERE is better than MY local dealer for parts.

BMW seems to have misunderstood something about Just In Time inventory. Sure, NOT stocking stuff is good for your balance sheet. But the flip side is that you must have the ability to get it when you need it, FAST. BMW chooses not to stock anything and paradoxically refuses to move the parts from their warehouse to the customers any faster than an arthritic snail can carry it.

Avoid BMW whenever possible. When it is impossible, avoid dealers that refuse to stock any inventory. Since you'll be ordering online, also avoid dealers who charge the full list price. Support the dealer who has it, will ship it today (via your method of choice) and will sell it to you at a discount. THAT is the man whose business we WANT to see grow. (Maybe he will eventually buy your local dealership when it goes under and then you WILL be able to get the parts you need TODAY.)

One last word of advice... tires. www.SWMotoTires.com. Buy your tires in the winter BEFORE you need them. Learn to mount them yourself. Buy a Harbor Freight Salvage tire machine (with the motorcycle tire adapter) and a Marc Parnes balancer. If you've been buying your tires from your dealer and having him mount them, ONE set of tires will probably pay for these tools. From then on... gravy.

 

[FredRydr]

...BMW seems to have misunderstood something about Just In Time inventory. Sure, NOT stocking stuff is good for your balance sheet. But the flip side is that you must have the ability to get it when you need it, FAST. BMW chooses not to stock anything and paradoxically refuses to move the parts from their warehouse to the customers any faster than an arthritic snail can carry it.

Avoid BMW whenever possible. When it is impossible, avoid dealers that refuse to stock any inventory. Since you'll be ordering online, also avoid dealers who charge the full list price. Support the dealer who has it, will ship it today (via your method of choice) and will sell it to you at a discount....

I am dealing with this issue now. My very local dealer waited before ordering a part, even though when I made the service appointment, I reminded them of their warning (from the previous service) that I would need that very part. So BMW FedEx's it. It doesn't arrive. So my bike sits in their shop an extra day. And the dealer never seems to learn that customers notice.

At least I am going to pick a real nice loaner for tomorrow. How about an Aprilia?

Fred

 

[flash412]

... At least I am going to pick a real nice loaner for tomorrow. How about an Aprilia?

GREAT bikes. I have two. Both of my Aprilias say BMW on the side because they are carbureted F650s.

 

[MOTORMAN]

Our government is responsible for BMW outsourcing parts to China. Man that's a real reach.

 

[kbasa]

Only the ones who pay a premium for goods that are available a multitude of other places, often better quality, always for less money such as light bulbs, fuses, bearings, seals, tires, oil, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, I know the "party line"... "But THIS one has a ROUNDEL(!) on the wrapper and therefore it MUST be better!"

Does it leave any sort of rash when they remove your wool?

Jeez, dude. You get up on the wrong side of the bed today or something?

 

[BRADFORDBENN]

One of the things that can be an issue is using non approved items when filing a warranty claim. Now for bikes out of warranty, it is not a big deal, but if it is under warranty I am going to error on the side of caution.

Working for a manufacturer we get lots of items in for repair where the user has "fixed" it themselves. They look at a schematic and see that we use a 1kilohm resistor for something, so they go and buy a 1k resistor some place and put it in. Then once the unit gets hot the resistor pops because it is not rated for the heat. So then it blows out other traces on the board and causes cascade failures. But the specs on the specification sheet were the same.

It is the other information that is not always displayed that is the difference. I am not saying that it applies to everything, but it does apply to certain components. I know for a fact that we have some proprietary devices that at first blush appear to be the same as off the shelf parts. The specification sheets look the same. There are other attributes that we don't share as it is proprietary.

So having said that, I prefer going with the BMW stuff. It is MY decision. Everyone has to make their own.

Also just cause one reads it on the internet doesn't make it fact.

Do what makes you comfortable


Now back to China, I can tell you that we outsourced our simplest products over there because of the intellectual property issues. We also wrote the specification for the vendor to include the work conditions, anti static, ambient temperature, humidity level... etc. We also have a few people over there full time on OUR payroll to monitor this stuff. It is just like any other country, one needs to monitor your supplier careful. Same thing happens here in the states.

Oh yeah, regarding German quality. My favorite story is about a company that used to make their own screws instead of buying them. They are a very prestigious audio company, why were they making screws? So that they had complete control over the process and did not have to wait for a supplier if they ran out. It is a non rated retaining screw, it costs less then a penny in bulk - it cost them 6 cents each. So sometimes it can go overboard.

 

[flash412]

Jeez, dude. You get up on the wrong side of the bed today or something?

Rather than take issue with me personally, why not address the issues which I raise?

I can understand the fear of warranty rejection, even if it is not valid under the law in the US. Then again, BMW seems to reject valid warranty claims all the time anyway, which is but one of the many reasons why I will never buy another new bike from BMW.

BMW sells inferior parts at extra-premium prices with long delays in delivery.

There... the emporer IS naked. You wanna try to kill the messenger now or you wanna do something to fix the problem?

 

[saab93driver]

My Mini's engine is made in Brazil, the transmission in Germany, some of the electronics in the US, and it is all assembled in England. Great car, BTW.

None of those countries have missles pointed at the United States. Make no mistake, the Chinese gov't is hard core communist no different than the old Soviet Union except they have MFN thanks to the US gov't.

While we are busy militarily all over the world, they are watching and waiting for the moment when we are spread too thin so they can invade Taiwan. All while we finance their activities since nobody in the US is willing to pay for everyday products made somewhere in the first world. Even the "support our troops" stickers and US flag stickers you see at the circle K are made in China!

Unless it is a necessity item where I don't have any choice I Boycott china whenever possible.

 

[mika]

At the risk of casting pearls before swine...

No one is trying to kill the messanger.

I agree with 99% of what you have said. I suggested you write something because you have credibility with experience and education. You are normally no frills and straight to the point with a bit of dry insitefull humor tossed inbetween the lines. When I see your avitar I look forward to reading your posts. Today you seem like maybe you should switch to decaf. That is all.

 

[LOKHANKIN]

Hey! China is not too far from Germany:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25689-1901558,00.html
just if anyone forgot what nazi did ~70 years ago...

Thanks God for free Germany now.

I do boycott "Made in China" labels too!

 

[torags]

Branding is big business.

VW builds cars in Mexico (to my knowledge no "made in" labels)

The Porsche Cayenne six, is made by vw in Bratislava, Czech Repub. has an Audi engine and is labeled Porsche with a premium. Porsche programs the chip that VW installs.

5+ years ago I visited the glass blowing factory in Venice to look for Venitian glass with the bride. They were selling some China made objects as Venitian Glass. Nice but WTF.

 

[pmdave]

I'm a little surprised that anyone (let alone a BMW enthusiast) still thinks that motor vehicles are "made in" a single country, or that it matters. There are machines assembled in one country, others assembled in several countries. Is my Toyota 4-Runner a Japanese vehicle, or an American vehicle? Does it matter? Does anyone care where the majority of the parts are built, or where the subassemblies are put together, or where the vehicle finally rolls of an assembly line?

BMW has been outsourcing parts and components for years, just as Boeing outsources airplane components. The trick isn't to avoid certain countries, but rather to have processes in place to ensure that the parts--wherever they are made--are all up to the designer's standards. That seems to be one area where the Germans are falling behind.

I happen to own 4 BMW motorcycles at the moment--primarily because of the enthusiast cameraderie and the infrastructure--not because I feel BMW design or German manufacturing are superior to what's available in other countries. Would a BMW assembled in Japan or China be any better or worse than a BMW assembled in Germany or Italy?

It appears that BMW AG is planning a future where the only people touching a BMW motorcycle are BMW technicians. That's the European concept that has come out of "global harmonisation". Americans are still relatively ignorant of the concept, although BMW enthusiasts are probably more in the know than owners of other brands.

It might turn out that I've bought my last new BMW motorcycle, both because I'm getting too old and worn out to ride as much as I'd like to, and because the designs BMW are coming up with are not what I'd be looking for.

However, let's note that BMW AG is not in the business of supporting a few old curmudgeons who like to keep their ancient machines running. BMW are in the business of turning a profit. If anyone doesn't like the way BMW (or any other factory) is doing business, we are free to take our business elsewhere.

I would suggest that if you are going to wrench on your own machines, you should become clever enough to find and evaluate replacement parts based on something other than packaging.

pmdave

 

[GeneT]

Out Sourcing

This may come as a shock to some but big corporations, and I guess some smaller ones also contract other manufactures to make parts for them, this is usually put up for bid and has been going on for years. Detroit Diesel did this with some castings, Caterpillar had some engine blocks made in Mexico and France. Many parts for you American car most likely came from another country.

There is only a hand full of bearing companies in the country, ball & roller bearings are fairly standard world wide, simply measure your bearing and go to a bearing supply house and get what you need, chances are it says New Departure, or Federal Mogal, there are some good Itialian bearings also and they likely have the size you need.

 

[ppaintguy]

I picked up my parts at the local BMW dealer today for my swingarm/clutch/tranny repair. I took the bearings out of the BMW bags to check....and saw the dreaded "CHINA" on the bearings! At $30 and change a piece they want to give us Chinese bearings! Have you ever seen a Chinese factory!?! Open windows, no glass, tolerances varying greatly throughout the day as the temp fluctuates in the building....and that was an aircraft parts factory I'm talking about. I know, Chinese parts are everywhere....often causing mechanical failures due to poor metalurgy, sloppy tolerances and heat treating etc. But does BMW have to go there now to stay in the black? At the price we pay for their bikes (and parts and clothes...) we should at least be getting the good solid German product that they tout! Maybe my input shaft was made in China, and that explains why it is toast at 43K miles? Arrgggg.

BMW have had manufacturing/outsource for a number of years now as do other companies. I especially love the high quality Turkish bearings and spokes that have shown themselves on certain brands...lol. They truly are a global company, just lower profile about it than Wally World...lol.

I believe the Germans do not necessarily make a finer machine than anybody else, they certainly market them better and spend far more on advertizing movies than anyone else...but hey, they are still fun to ride and they fit a taller guy better than most.

 

[cjack]

Rather than take issue with me personally, why not address the issues which I raise?

I can understand the fear of warranty rejection, even if it is not valid under the law in the US. Then again, BMW seems to reject valid warranty claims all the time anyway, which is but one of the many reasons why I will never buy another new bike from BMW.

BMW sells inferior parts at extra-premium prices with long delays in delivery.

There... the emporer IS naked. You wanna try to kill the messenger now or you wanna do something to fix the problem?

I almost don't know where to start. As to parts, my dealer gets anything in the country overnight if they or the customer needs it. Some times the part is backordered, like older painted parts, /2 stuff sometimes, maybe a transmission or an ABS unit. As to price, when I see how many of so many parts they have in the warehouses in the US, the cost of inventory must be staggering. I guess when they order small quantities of older bike parts, they must incur a higher cost than when they ordered 50,000 of that part.
Depending on the customer, and the dealer, the warranty experiences I have known show BMW to be very accommodating. I have known of many out of warranty coverages. It is getting tougher now. Warranty is a huge cost for them lately.
Try the decaf.

 

[JUNKLE]

If I were wise I wouldn't post in this thread, but here goes . . .

For those who are blaming our government I disagree. With all of the things I blame on them (almost daily) I would say that the consumer has more control over this than any government. When people start voting with their cash then things will change. As long as people just want to buy the cheapest junk they can buy jobs and manufacturing will continue to be outsourced. Business don't care how you vote or what you think, only if you spend your money on their products.

My 2 cents,

j.