BMW Advantec Oil

[beemerphile]

... Whether you build from natural gas or hydrotreat and use reactors to produce a synthetic lube from crude. You still have a hydrocarbon molecule. The advantage is that all paraffin is gone and the molecules are more consistent in the synthetic oils. But guess what? They are still hydrogen and carbon molecules.

Ah, the winter oil threads are as perennial as the grass. They can't be avoided, so they should be enjoyed with a good beverage. They only get testy if, or I guess when, someone takes them seriously.

To the chemical engineer, it matters nil from whence cometh the molecules, but to the marketer it is a field of unlimited opportunity - an especially fertile field since in the US they argued and won the right to call oils "synthetic" when they really are not. That way they can sell "peace of mind" at a lower price and woo away customers who do not know an ester from Aunt Margaret.

There is a parallel in the "water industry". Whether the H20 is tens of millions of years old and comes from an ancient aquifer deep under the Swiss Alps where it has been finely filtered over the ages through permeable rock, or it comes out of a process on the International Space Station that starts with astronaut sweat and pee - H20 is H20. The genesis and history of the oil creates a marketing "story" just like the genesis and history of water.

After this spoof was aired, people started calling trying to buy some of it.

In my bikes I use... Oh, never mind. Carry on.

 

[patm]

Ah, the winter oil threads are as perennial as the grass. They can't be avoided, so they should be enjoyed with a good beverage. They only get testy if, or I guess when, someone takes them seriously.

To the chemical engineer, it matters nil from whence cometh the molecules, but to the marketer it is a field of unlimited opportunity - an especially fertile field since in the US they argued and won the right to call oils "synthetic" when they really are not. That way they can sell "peace of mind" at a lower price and woo away customers who do not know an ester from Aunt Margaret.

There is a parallel in the "water industry". Whether the H20 is tens of millions of years old and comes from an ancient aquifer deep under the Swiss Alps where it has been finely filtered over the ages through permeable rock, or it comes out of a process on the International Space Station that starts with astronaut sweat and pee - H20 is H20. The genesis and history of the oil creates a marketing "story" just like the genesis and history of water.

After this spoof was aired, people started calling trying to buy some of it.

In my bikes I use... Oh, never mind. Carry on.

I vote this for the best answer to an oil thread for 2018.

Check what your owner's manual say. If the oil meets the specs, you're good to go.

Mine: SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2, Additives
(e.g. molybdenum-based) are not permissible
because they can attack coated components
of the engine, BMW Motorrad recommends
BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate oil.

Nowhere does it say it must be a "motorcycle branded" or "made for motorcycle" oil. It just lists the minimum required specs and what it must not contain.
They recommend their own oil as it meets the specs and they earn good money selling it.

 

[brownie0486]

My mechanic puts 20-50 synthetic in my 2012 1200GS. I topped off with Castrol 20-50 synthetic on the trip to Ak. twice, 8K miles and used 1.5 qts. Upon getting home, the bike was down a 1/2 qt. so really 2 qts in 8K miles. 5000 of those miles were running 75-80 highway speeds for hours at a time, up to 15 hrs a day [ I asked the mechanic about using the above on the trip, his reply, no problem ].

I deal with high heat indexes for 3-4 months a year here in the desert [ 110-118 ]. He believes 20-50 is preferred here. A cool day for another few months a year it's in the 90's. Whether I should or shouldn't be using what I carry 24/7 on the bike to top off or not doesn't matter to me, my mechanic knows more about those motors than I ever will, I trust his judgement.

 

[tangoalpha]

Do you use this in any vehicle with a multi-plate wet clutch?

Hi Paul. I don’t currently own anything that utilizes a multi-plate wet clutch, any longer, but I have in the past (2 HD’s) So many videos online about oil tests done by Blackstone Labs and others with excellent results when it comes to Mobil-1 that at some point I just jumped all the way in and use it across the board for everything I own. It’s pricier, but not the most expensive oil on the market and the performance of Mobil-1 is hard to beat at any price.

In both my ‘03 and ‘08 HD Ultra Classic’s I used Mobil-1 full synthetic V-twin formula (20w/50) in all three holes....engine, tranny and primary. The V-twin formula is ideal for air cooled/oil cooled motors. The oil has additives to help resist thermal breakdown and deliver long lasting performance.

I know everyone has their own favorite oil, but I’m sold on Mobil-1. Hard to beat for the money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jandhumphreyme]

Jammess, bottom line if you sleep at night using Advantec, use it. When it comes to oil, there's marketing BS and so much anecdotal information available, IMOP, the only way to know how an oil actually performs is to test it. Lots of good products out there and some good advice already given.

As far as Advantec Pro 15w-50, I use it because the viscosity range is recommended in my owners manual, covers the temperature range I ride in and its easier for me to get. Never having had an air/oil cooled bike I was interested in performance of the lubrication system, I've listed to so much chatter about this viscosity or that one being better but no evidence being provided to prove it, that I finally sent a sample off to Blackstone labs for analysis the first one after extended tour to SLC and back, all highway driving and temps in the 90's, oil was changed right at BMW 6k recommended interval. Analysis indicated viscosity was within range of the specification, additives package were still good and no metals in the sample, suggested I move change frequency to 7k, which I've done subsequent tests will be done to verify this decision and tweak my change interval this one way or the other.

 

[jammess]

Jammess, bottom line if you sleep at night using Advantec, use it. When it comes to oil, there's marketing BS and so much anecdotal information available, IMOP, the only way to know how an oil actually performs is to test it. Lots of good products out there and some good advice already given.

As far as Advantec Pro 15w-50, I use it because the viscosity range is recommended in my owners manual, covers the temperature range I ride in and its easier for me to get. Never having had an air/oil cooled bike I was interested in performance of the lubrication system, I've listed to so much chatter about this viscosity or that one being better but no evidence being provided to prove it, that I finally sent a sample off to Blackstone labs for analysis the first one after extended tour to SLC and back, all highway driving and temps in the 90's, oil was changed right at BMW 6k recommended interval. Analysis indicated viscosity was within range of the specification, additives package were still good and no metals in the sample, suggested I move change frequency to 7k, which I've done subsequent tests will be done to verify this decision and tweak my change interval this one way or the other.

Yup, that's pretty much the way I see it. What really makes no sense to me is someone shelling out for a new RT and then going cheap on lubricants. Best example I can think of is using oil intended for diesels in a high rev air cooled gasoline engine and on top of that a gas engine with integrated transmission yet. Duuuuuuhhhhhh....... On top of that even the oil contaminants produced by gasoline engines is completely different from diesel contaminants hence, a different additive package for diesel oil. I read somewhere that diesel specified oil is much higher in detergents than oil specked for gasoline engines. So, how is that going to effect oil foaming in a high rev engine?

Long and short is none of us are qualified to second guess the manufacturer (BMW) and it's foolish and counter productive to even try. In my humble opinion of course.

Here's a question: If BMW Advantec 15w50 oil sold for the same price you could buy Shell Rotella T6 for would you still buy the Rotella? The obvious answer is NO you wouldn't. Therefore the only logic for buying the Rotella diesel lubricant for use in your motorcycle is you're willing to roll the dice primarily just to save a buck. No other logical reason. Also, the difference in cost per oil change amounts to maybe one night in a cheap motel room when you're out and about on your motorcycle. What I'm saying is put things in their proper perspective.

OK, I'm done.

Well, not quite yet...I have no doubt that there are those that would actually think that BMW would purposely sell an inferior lubricant just to make money on repair work related to improper lubrication. I mean I really wouldn't be surprised if this were not true. I could get political here and sight a few other examples but I won't.

Now I'm really done!

 

[lkchris]

I would opine that BMW’s selection of oil suppliers is determined much more by contractual opportunities and advantages rather than quality concerns. There are a lot of good oils that meet BMW’s API specs for each series of machine.

I wouldn't project 'mericun engineering practice to European companies.

Ducati also specifies Shell motorcycle oil.

API is irrelevant to Europeans, who deal with ACEA ... and JASO, since it's the only standard dealing with motorcycle gearboxes.

 

[GTRider]

API is irrelevant to Europeans, who deal with ACEA ... and JASO, since it's the only standard dealing with motorcycle gearboxes.

Perhaps, but I note that there is an API rating on every bottle of motor oil that BMW sells, and they certainly include the relevant API callouts in owner’s manuals.

Best,
DG

 

[blacque jacque shellacque]

Air head and oil heads have flat tappets running on the cams. The amount of ZDDP on SM rated oil is much reduced. It doesn't surprise me that BMW now recommends API service rating class M for older bikes. It should help with getting those older bikes off the road sooner!


Grade Zinc, Phos
SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400
SH 1000-1400
SG 1000-1400
SF 1000-1400
SE 1000-1200
SD 1000-1200
SC 1000-1200

 

[dieselyoda]

Age in the engine is the killer. Changing your oil once a year because the interval is due, is a waste of your money. The damage is done from corrosion.

I go long on mileage but make sure that at 3 months or so, fresh goes in.

 

[bc1100s]

Air head and oil heads have flat tappets running on the cams. The amount of ZDDP on SM rated oil is much reduced. It doesn't surprise me that BMW now recommends API service rating class M for older bikes. It should help with getting those older bikes off the road sooner!


Grade Zinc, Phos
SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400
SH 1000-1400
SG 1000-1400
SF 1000-1400
SE 1000-1200
SD 1000-1200
SC 1000-1200

On the other hand one might read page 3 of this attachment, which was updated in October of this year, and see that Mobil 1 15W-50 has an API rating of SN with high zinc and phosphorus numbers. You'll also note that this oil is recommended by Mobil for flat tappet applications. I ran this product in my R1100S motor for 115k km. That engine is still one of the quietest oilhead motors my dealership has ever heard AND uses virtually no oil on hot-weather, high speed 3,000 mile road trips.

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

 

[179212]

Oil

Air head and oil heads have flat tappets running on the cams. The amount of ZDDP on SM rated oil is much reduced. It doesn't surprise me that BMW now recommends API service rating class M for older bikes. It should help with getting those older bikes off the road sooner!


Grade Zinc, Phos
SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400
SH 1000-1400
SG 1000-1400
SF 1000-1400
SE 1000-1200
SD 1000-1200
SC 1000-1200

Thanks for the chart good to know where zinc and phos levels drop

As for diesel oil in my oilhead or airhead I have not used because what I have for tractor is 15-40 and I like to use 20-50 or 15-50 in motorcycles.
It also looks like the oil filter from my 40 hp New Holland diesel tractor would fit my oilhead, I don’t do that substitution either.

 

[ragtoplvr]

I do switch to Rotella 5W40 for winter, as it cranks and starts better, and is not stiff and sluggish the first half mile. Oh horror of horrors, I remove the oil filter, dump it and refill. The filter has about 5K on it and I will probably put on less than 2K this winter and early spring before temps hit 80 ish. Then I get a new BNW filter and 20W50 motorcycle oil. Probably Castoral if wally world has it.

I have been waiting for it to blow up so I can get another one

Rod

 

[blacque jacque shellacque]

On the other hand one might read page 3 of this attachment, which was updated in October of this year, and see that Mobil 1 15W-50 has an API rating of SN with high zinc and phosphorus numbers. You'll also note that this oil is recommended by Mobil for flat tappet applications. I ran this product in my R1100S motor for 115k km. That engine is still one of the quietest oilhead motors my dealership has ever heard AND uses virtually no oil on hot-weather, high speed 3,000 mile road trips.

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

Here's a link for the BMW recommended Advantec oil. It appears that BMW's Marketing dept has decided that high Zinc and phosphorous levels are no longer necessary for older boxers and oil heads.


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../4117020/bmw-advantec-pro-15w50-motorcyle-oil

 

[bc1100s]

Here's a link for the BMW recommended Advantec oil. It appears that BMW's Marketing dept has decided that high Zinc and phosphorous levels are no longer necessary for older boxers and oil heads.

BMW may have decided that but it'll take more than a marketing decision to convince me.

 

[tibork]

James: I got the same bike as you but a '94. The manual recommends the 20W-50 and a BMW bike mechanic said not to use the synthetic as it can cause head gasket leaks in later life. He recommended and uses the Spectro 4 non-synthetic (also could use semi) and that is what I use in my bike. He says the Spectro 4 is specifically formulated for the BMW bikes, high in zinc and copper content for wear protection.

 

[jandhumphreyme]

There was some interesting research done a few years ago at the University of Pennsylvania in conjunction with Exxon regarding ZDDP, they developed a methodology to test it at it at the molecular level and figured out how it provides its protection. Apparently it forms a protective layer at the high pressure interface on surface's, however the research also showed that it would only build out to a certain thickness due to its specific properties after reaching this thickness the layer became brittle and would shed off. One could theorize the current levels found in new oils are sufficient to maintain protection for the recommended change intervals, however I can find no research that confirms this. One thing's for certain, lots of research is being done regarding engine oils as all manufacturer's are pressed to maximize fuel mileage and increase longevity of their products.

 

[tibork]

There was some interesting research done a few years ago at the University of Pennsylvania in conjunction with Exxon regarding ZDDP, they developed a methodology to test it at it at the molecular level and figured out how it provides its protection. Apparently it forms a protective layer at the high pressure interface on surface's, however the research also showed that it would only build out to a certain thickness due to its specific properties after reaching this thickness the layer became brittle and would shed off.

And in the auto world you always hear the two groups arguing, one that swears on the benefits of the zinc and the other leaning towards teflon. By the way I have not heard teflon used in motorcycle oils, do they exist at all?

 

[akbeemer]

Teflon and a wet clutch might not go together very well.

 

[jammess]

James: I got the same bike as you but a '94. The manual recommends the 20W-50 and a BMW bike mechanic said not to use the synthetic as it can cause head gasket leaks in later life. He recommended and uses the Spectro 4 non-synthetic (also could use semi) and that is what I use in my bike. He says the Spectro 4 is specifically formulated for the BMW bikes, high in zinc and copper content for wear protection.

That's why BMW recommends the Advantec Pro 15w50 oil for pre-2005 BMWs since it is not a straight synthetic oil but is a synthetic/non-synthetic blend. Also, I believe API SM rated oils are backward compatible to the older API ratings called out for use in our bikes.

Also, Diesel Yoda makes a good point when he talks about frequency of oil changes and resulting corrosive effects of oil left in the crank case for extended lengthy periods and this weighs on my mind especially when you consider the cost of BMW oil. That's where oils like Shell Rotella are tempting and one reason I've been using same. In fact I've been using T3 and lately T4 mineral base Rotella but no more, I'm sticking with Advantec Pro and will change twice per year. My bike resides in a temperature controlled garage so that should help with any water condensation in the crank case and I don't ever short trip my bikes so they always reach full operating temperature to boil off any moisture, I hope.