Bad alternator?

So just got this 04 1100S. Previous owner had it on trickle charger, probably hardly rode it. When I got it it started fine for the first 3 or 4 days, then noticed it kinda weak starting, figured may as well get a battery. Was going to go get it the next day, bike wouldn’t start dead battery. Got a new battery, bike started no problem for the last 4 day’s or so. Started it up tonight to warm up the final drive fluid to change. Rode around for 20 minutes came back changed oil, let it sit, went to go take it for a spin, tried to start, cranked fine, but no go, at all, weird. Tried a few more times, wont turn over, then battery died. Tried to bump start it, that didn’t work. Now back on trickle charger and we will see tomorrow morning.

So now I’m wondering if maybe it’s a bad alternator.
But shouldn’t the bike crank over with enough juice from the battery even if the alternator isn’t charging? Felt like it had plenty of juice.

The fact that it wasn’t turning over at all made me wonder, is it even getting fuel, is it even getting spark? Weird thing. Wonder what to check next. Maybe pull one or two of the plugs and check for spark?

Bike had cranked over just fine for the last ride it took a couple hours ago. No signs of weak battery, or loss of fuel or anything.

Trying to read the battery voltage through the trickle port works right? Battery reads over 12V. Would hate to have to take off plastics and crap just to check the voltage.

I think you're going to need to get good access to the battery terminals. Reading 12v without bike running doesn't mean much. You need to read the voltage when starting the bike, or attempting to start, and then also read it when the RPMs are greater than say 3000...should be close to 14v. If it's not, then you'll need to run through the steps to narrow down the problem. It could be the alternator, could be a voltage regulator, etc.

Yeah I’ll have to take it all apart this weekend.
I didn’t even check to listen for the fuel pump.
Shoot I guess it could even be the starter, it was cranking with power, but the engine wasn’t turning over.

Amazing how your friend asks how the new bike has been and you say great, then the next time you go to use it it doesn’t start.

Probably not the alternator. I gotta see if it’s getting fuel and spark first.

Kurt is spot on about checking charging rates.

I'm not sure I understand when you say "it was cranking with power but not turning over". Typically, "cranking" and "turning over" are the same thing.

Your bike is a 2004 so it probably has the updated HES wiring. If your battery was dead last night, but after charging starts your bike today, I think you're getting closer to the issue. Make sure you listen for the fuel pump when you key the ignition. And checking fuses never hurts.

More knowledgeable minds should chime in shortly.

Sorry, starter was cranking but the bike wasn’t turning over. Just got a new battery, had just started and rode it 10 miles, an hour or so before it wouldn’t start, no issues.

I only posted about alternator because the battery it had when I got it was old and he probably didn’t use the bike much, so maybe the alternator got jacked up from the battery being bad.

But thinking about it more, just being a regular guy, not a mechanic, it seems like either the starter wasn’t engaging to turn the motor over, the engine isn’t getting fuel or isn’t getting spark, it had power, till I killed the battery trying to start it.

Battery is on a charger now, I’ll check the voltage when I get home. See what it says when I try to crank, be nice if it starts. Check the starter as well, and pull some plugs and see if there’s spark. Guess i can pull an injector and see if it’s pumping too.

Rather not take it to a dealer and spend stupid money.

Wouldn't it be noticeably different in starting/noise if the starter isn't engaging? If the starter drive is not coming out to engage the flywheel, the starter is going to spin pretty darn fast. Otherwise, when it does engage, the inertia of the engine tends to slow it down.

Thanks now I know, please forgive me for my lack of knowledge, and for my blabber mouth. This doesn’t happen in person. But hey, we’re on this forum for entertainment amongst other things.

I got home and went to crank it just to see, nothing, not much power. Took the plastics off, got the meter out, battery reading like 13v, hit the starter button, weak weak weak, down below 7v, fudge.
Decided to take the starter off and just have a look, see if anything stripped or odd looking. Not that I’d really know any different anyway, but hey why not.
Stepped inside because it’s hot as hell here, had to take a breather, as well as my brain telling me, what the hell are you doing, I don’t know what the hell im looking for, what the hell is going on, I quit.

Went out and put the starter back on, decided to try and crank it again, put the meter on the battery, hit the starter, damn thing cranked right away, battery felt strong, what in the hell is going on! Revved the engine, voltage went up to the upper 13’s, so seems like the alternator is doing something.

But what the hell? Bike wouldn’t give any kind of plop plop trying to start last night, just starter going and going. Battery lost it’s juice. Come home today, battery still weak, mess with the starter, basically give up, try and start again, cranks right up, battery feels fine doing it. I’m lost. And I hope I don’t go for a ride and it doesn’t want to start for me.

How freaking entertaining is this crap.? Y’all must be like, what’s wrong with this guy. While I wonder what the hell just went on with this motorcycle over the last 12 hours? Quite confusing.

Bad ground?

I'm going to take a WAG and say its your starter. Take it off, take it apart and clean it (including the starter drive), make sure the magnets aren't coming loose or there aren't worn parts and then reinstall. Or wait for someone else with more knowledge to check in here.

Just wondering but did you check the belt on the alternator and see if it needs to be replaced/tightened up?
The starter can shorten out and cause the battery to loose it's charge too but your issue needs a. multi pronged approach IMHO.. Good luck!

I did check the belt just to see if it was still intact, see if the HES was damaged, everything looks good and snug in there. That one one of the things the previous owner said was done at the 24k service.

It does seem like it has something to do with the starter. Looks almost similar to a fishing reel on the break down sheet, maybe I can do this myself. Or just spray some WD-40 on it, duct tape.

I have not had this happen again after unplugging and removing and reinstalling the starter.

Just worries me that it’ll happen when I’m out and about. Have to kick the starter I guess.

Sure miss the battery on the F800. Just take the middle “tank” plastic off, 8 screws, it’s right there.
I remember having to carry my charger around to work, charge at home, go to work, take the battery out, charge it at work to get home, until I replaced the stator. Super mission to get to the battery here.

“It does seem like it has something to do with the starter. Looks almost similar to a fishing reel on the break down sheet, maybe I can do this myself. Or just spray some WD-40 on it, duct tape.“

You in the USA.? I got a drop in replacement starter about two years ago. Lots of miles, lots of starts, no problems. Got it from DB Electrical. Under $70.

I think I will order one of them starters, they are cheap.

Latest update, new information.

No more starting issues till a few days later. The other morning went to start, wouldn’t turn over again. Turned the ignition off then back on, tried again, but turned the throttle just about all the way and it cranked.
Then this morning, same thing, no go, turned off turned on, no go, kept giving it gas and it finally went with a backfire. Actually happened again this evening now that I think about it.

Now it seems more like a fueling issue, maybe clogged filter? Fuel pump makes noise every time the key turns, so hopefully not that. Then I wonder if it’s worth just changing the pump while changing the filter? Then I think if it’s not broke don’t fix it.

Or maybe it’s a spark issue? HES issue maybe? This last time when it did fire up, the fuel smell was heavy, so maybe it is getting fuel but the spark is bad??? Just got new plugs going to change them.

Once the bike starts it runs fine. Haven’t felt any choking or bogging.

Shrug

I continue to be confused by your terminology. When you say the engine "wouldn't turn over" we take that to mean the starter wouldn't crank the engine over. Then you say you fiddled with the key and the throttle and the engine "cranked". Do you mean it started? In order to give you best advice its important for us to use the same terms. So..."turning over" and "cranking" typically refers to the starter turning the engine while you're trying to start it. To paraphrase someone else on this board , "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution".

I don't think your fuel pump or filter is the problem as you say that once started the bike runs well. Same with the HES. As previously mentioned you should have the updated wiring. When was the last time you did a tune up? Have you checked for spark? Check the valve clearances, change the plugs, clean the Big Brass Screws on the injector bodies, sync them and report back.

This should help with the throttle bodies... It's a witty write up but pretty much a bible for the oilheads... YMMV

https://manualzz.com/doc/21905780/chapter-two--oilhead-throttle-body-synching-for-dummies

So I guess what I meant to say was I turned the key to the right so the little lights would go bright and the little motor inside the bike makes a noise. Then I push the little button to make the whole motor start, and the only thing it would do was make the starter motor make noise, but not start the engine.

Then I turned the key to the left and all the little lights went away. Then back to the right to make the lights go on again. Pushed the little button on the right grip, it made the starter motor do noises. But would not start the engine until I gave it a lot of gas. Then the engine started, VROOOOM.

It was claimed the bike got a 24K service but maybe not completely I’m assuming. I’ll change the plugs when the rain stops. Does anyone find the need to adjust the gaps at all? I’ll have to take a look how the plugs come. Guess I may as well check the valves at the same time.

I will never use the terms cranked or turned over again to save time/confusion.

Excellent. Don't spend any money on parts (except for plugs) until you do this tuneup. Also, check to see that your fast idle cable (often referred to as a "choke" cable) and throttle cables are adjusted properly. We're getting closer to identifying your issue. Well, not YOUR issue - the bike's.

It is ALWAYS a good idea to check a plug's gap before installation.
The manufacturer may not have have gapped them correctly, or gapped them for "your" particular bike.
This also gives you the opportunity to verify that the center insulator isn't cracked (over the years, I've seen a couple that were actually loose in the housing!), and that the center conductor is straight.
If you need to change it, be very slow and careful - on many plugs, that center insulator is easily damaged, and your bike won't like that.

I don’t think the “choke” is hooked up, I get no resistance and notice no change when adjusted. Haven’t really had to use it much, it’s quite warm here.

Good to know, I was reading people say you don’t adjust iridium plugs. Got a good deal through work so got them. Guess I will check and carefully make the adjustment.
Book says .8mm, I’ve read .031” which I think is almost the same. Then I’ve read .04” somewhere worked better for a fellow?

Just changed plugs, old were a bit rusty. They all spark but the right side main coil doesn’t “stick” to the plug. I can pull it off by hand, so I didn’t test that one, that’s probably not good. Anyway to remedy this or do I have to buy a new one?