When does a Wethead "really" reach full operating temperature ?

I have a lot of fun, watching my 17 GSA's engine temperature spool up from cold, to a stable temperature off my Garmin VI each morning. The temp goes from cold (ambient) to the high 190's within 5 minutes. Then the thermostat opens, a rush of cold A/F rushes in, the temp dives back down to the 170 range, then the Thermostat closes, the engine starts to rise in temp again, and the cycle starts all over. It takes about 20 minutes for this cycle to complete, and the engine settles in at about 183 give or take. I would say the thermostat opens and closes around seven times until the engine is fully up to operating temperature. My situation is that I live about 10 minutes from our Interstate that has a 80 MPH speed limit. So the fact is, I get on the interstate (daily commute to work) about 10 minutes before the engine / thermostat dance is fully over. Am I hurting the engine is the first question. The second question is, is the oil temperature coming up to temperature behind the actual engine temperature, or on par with the engine temperature? I guess the basic issue is, when are the oil and engine temperature's really both fully warmed up ? When I get on the Interstate, I am about 1/2 into the engine / AF temps getting stable, yet I must be at 80 MPH or better, to keep up with traffic and I am a little worried about this, especially when the ambient temps begin to drop, and the engine takes even more time to get warmed up.

https://blog.amsoil.com/why-warm-up-your-motorcycle-before-riding/

While warmup is generally considered a good thing it's not that long. The above article recommends a few minutes. My routine is start the bike and put my gear on. But the time I'm ready to hop on the bike it's warmed up. If it takes you a few minutes to get out of the neighborhood then starting and hopping on may be an option. But starting it and WFO right away isn't a good idea. But who really does that.


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cajunrph said:

https://blog.amsoil.com/why-warm-up-your-motorcycle-before-riding/

While warmup is generally considered a good thing it's not that long. The above article recommends a few minutes. My routine is start the bike and put my gear on. But the time I'm ready to hop on the bike it's warmed up. If it takes you a few minutes to get out of the neighborhood then starting and hopping on may be an option. But starting it and WFO right away isn't a good idea. But who really does that.


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Thank you. I read the article link, then the comments after the article. It seems to me, that a two minute warm up might be plausible if one is going to initially ride stop and go just after starting. In my case, and if I really wanted to, I could start my GSA up stone cold, and be on the interstate doing 80 in less than 5 minutes. I don't think the two minute rule would apply in my case.

I wouldn't have any issue with the warm up time you have before you hit the interstate. The engine is warmed up, the water temp has not stabilized.

I suspect a better measure of "engine temperature" is oil temperature, which is more stable than the coolant temperature reported on the panel. Especially with the 5w/40 formulation, warm-up time can be brief. I don't worry about it much. I did pay much more attention to warm-up for my Corvair Corsa with it's primitive turbo (at least by today's standards).

Don't Worry; Be Happy

GSA2:

The short answer is:

1. No; you're not hurting your engine.
2. Yes; the oil temperature lags the coolant temperature but don't worry about it.

The longer answer includes:

The recommended 5W-40 oil pumps and flows well at any temperature that most of us would ride.. If you start the engine and let it run at idle or near idle for about ten seconds you're got fresh oil circulating.

By the time the coolant is up to it's first opening of the thermostat you've got enough heat in the engine so that everything should be happy.

Like so many others I typically start the engine and then do the ear plugs, helmet, and gloves. The reason I do this is probably because that's what Peter O'Toole did at the start of "Lawrence of Arabia" and I got the impression at a young age that it was cool to do so. (In Lawrence's case a more leisurely warm up was indeed advisable with the straight weight oil of those times.)

In fact, the optimal warm up procedure is to let the engine idle for about ten seconds to establish oil flow and then ride at moderate speed using moderate throttle and revs. You're then using a little more fuel supplying more heat to the cylinder head, and revving a bit more which shears the oil faster in the bearings which causes more friction and heat going into the oil.

If you ride for five to ten minutes on local streets to get to the interstate your engine will be warm enough to handle freeway speeds and power settings without incurring any damage.

Ride safe, have fun.

Our house fronts on a highway with a 70 mile an hour speed limit. I do not ride around the yard for ten or even two minutes. I start the bike, ride out to the highway, stop, look both ways and ride away. I accelerate gently through the gears. And don't worry about it.

One of the things to consider is that cruising at 70 to 80 mph is not an extreme condition for the engine. It only takes about 20 -25% of full power to sustain those speeds.

PGlaves said:

Our house fronts on a highway with a 70 mile an hour speed limit. I do not ride around the yard for ten or even two minutes. I start the bike, ride out to the highway, stop, look both ways and ride away. I accelerate gently through the gears. And don't worry about it.

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+1

Am with Paul, I push back out of the garage... start up (not wanting to start any engine inside an enclosed space) and go, maybe 1/3 mile to a 45 MPH road

Tom Casey
16 R12RTw
75 R75/6 Ole yeller

Most engines are at temperature when the oil temp has reached a certain level. Oil being the closest to the internals of the engine (Duh) gets up to temp first before coolant does. Each vehicle is different but it is best to start the engine, wait for the gauges to settle and just drive/ride away normally. YMMV

cajunrph said:

If it takes you a few minutes to get out of the neighborhood then starting and hopping on may be an option.

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I've made it a habit to start the bike and let it run for 30 seconds or so as I'm checking that my brain is ready for a, then I ride down my quiet street at about 20mph w/ rpms around 2,200 for a good 1/2 mile so revs stay nice n low. Fortunately there is no need to get out on to a freeway at high speeds until it's fully warmed up.

PGlaves said:

Our house fronts on a highway with a 70 mile an hour speed limit. I do not ride around the yard for ten or even two minutes. I start the bike, ride out to the highway, stop, look both ways and ride away. I accelerate gently through the gears. And don't worry about it.

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Don't forget Paul's family has bikes with more miles than most cars. Multi- viscosity oil is a wonderful thing

Rod.

Pressure

Howdy,
IMHO it's not engine temp that is important, it's oil pressure. Once nominal oil pressure has been reached (light goes out, gauge reads normal, etc.), drive away.
Later,
Norm

Like Paul, I have always just started the bike and ridden it.

I believe the old "10 second" idea is a falsehood that has been taken from the fact that if you do an oil change on a car (larger and longer oil passage ways) it takes about 10 seconds for the oil to file the new and empty oil filter and circulate.

That has nothing to do with starting an RTW (that had its oil change previously) in the morning and how the 5w40 synthetic oil circulates. First, all the necessary parts will likely have a little residual oil still where it is needed in the morning. Second, a light oil like a 5w40 synthetic only takes 2-3 to circulate. So, unless you are talking about hard riding, as was mentioned, 80 mph isn't hard riding, just start the bike and ride it. No full throttle unless needed for safety reason in the first 5 minutes and no prolonged hard use for 10 minutes is my regimne.

RIDERR1150GSADV said:

... Oil being the closest to the internals of the engine (Duh) gets up to temp first before coolant does...

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It is actually the reverse.

The coolant on an RTW or GSW, etc., will reach optimal operating temperature well before the oil. There are several reason for this, not the least of which is that the oil system does not have an oil-cooler incorporated in it and therefore is always moving heat away from the internals and cooling it via the fins, in the sump, etc. However, the coolant system has a radiator that incorporates a thermostat that is designed to build heat as quickly as possible on startup and then only disipate it (circulate through the system) when the thermostat opens around 85 C.

Generally I back the motorcycle out, start it, then pull on my gear so it gets a couple minutes to warm up. I might fire it up and take off but ride easy for the first few miles.

I'm curious about what BMW recommends in the user's manual.
My 1991 K75 manual says, "Do not warm up engine at idling speed. Move off immediately after starting."

WalterK75 said:

I'm curious about what BMW recommends in the user's manual.
My 1991 K75 manual says, "Do not warm up engine at idling speed. Move off immediately after starting."

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Interesting, especially since flying brick K bikes are known for taking forever to warm up. I manual choke may have something to do with this advise.

AlanColes said:

The coolant on an RTW or GSW, etc., will reach optimal operating temperature well before the oil. There are several reason for this, not the least of which is that the oil system does not have an oil-cooler incorporated in it and therefore is always moving heat away from the internals and cooling it via the fins, in the sump, etc. However, the coolant system has a radiator that incorporates a thermostat that is designed to build heat as quickly as possible on startup and then only disipate it (circulate through the system) when the thermostat opens around 85 C.

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That's been my experience on other vehicles. Alfa Romeos of the 50s and 60s had both coolant and oil temperature gauges. The coolant invariably reached it's stable temperature before the oil did.

WalterK75 said:

I'm curious about what BMW recommends in the user's manual.
My 1991 K75 manual says, "Do not warm up engine at idling speed. Move off immediately after starting."

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alegerlotz said:

Interesting, especially since flying brick K bikes are known for taking forever to warm up. I manual choke may have something to do with this advise.

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Yes, unfortunately, most people simply do what they "think" or have heard is the best thing without actually knowing what they should be doing. The internet is a wonderful place to find 1,000 points of view presented as fact.

The quickest way to safely bring most any internal-combustion vehicle up to proper operating temperature is to drive it. There are several reasons for this, but I don't feel like typing mush longer so I'll just leave it at that.

AlanColes said:

... The coolant on an RTW or GSW, etc., will reach optimal operating temperature well before the oil. There are several reason for this, not the least of which is that the oil system does not have an oil-cooler incorporated in it and therefore is always moving heat away from the internals and cooling it via the fins, in the sump, etc. However, the coolant system has a radiator that incorporates a thermostat that is designed to build heat as quickly as possible on startup and then only disipate it (circulate through the system) when the thermostat opens around 85 C.

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stooie said:

That's been my experience on other vehicles. Alfa Romeos of the 50s and 60s had both coolant and oil temperature gauges. The coolant invariably reached it's stable temperature before the oil did.

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Yes, my Fiat Spiders, etc., were also like that and that is true for most all cars and motorcycles. However, very few have both water and oil temperature gauges anymore and of those that do have an oil temperature gauge, almost all are not marked with actual temperatures. Most all are dampened in the middle "Normal" area significantly. This was done to stop the dealership service departments from having to constantly explain to customers that the variations were normal and fine within a range of xx degrees. They simply now make gauges that with read dead center if the temps is within that range.

Years ago I had a BMW M3 race car and wanted to get a more accurate reading for water and oil temperature so I installed aftermarket racing gauges. The difference was immediately noticable. The OE gauges did not respond as quickly as the others and where the old OE oil temp gauge simply had gradiants it would simply go to the middle of the normal range when the aftermarket gauge was reading at the bottom of acceptable operating range. The oil would take at least 5-10 minutes longer than the water to reach optimal temperature. This was with thermostats on both the coolant radiator and the oil-cooler, so each was getting to optimal as quickly as possible.