question or two

Been following the wethead forum for awhile and some people have commented that the new R1200RT is top heavy. How does the new RT compare with the R1150RT for being top heavy? I owned an '04 RT since new and the top heaviness really bothered me especially as I got older. Sold it two years ago when I found my FJR and to me the FJR is not at all top heavy when compared to the oilhead RT.

On the new RT with the new electronic suspension is the rear shock rebuildable or do you have to replace with new OEM when worn out? Shocks are a wear item and I can just imagine what a new OEM shock from BMW would cost.

I'm really thinking about a new RT but not sure the electronic suspension is really what I want or need. I'm not much into whistles and bells just for whistles and bells sake. Also, wonder if you can at least delete the radio from a loaded RT. I have absolutely no use for a radio on a motorcycle.

I think the basic model has a stainless steel muffler. I asked what's wrong with a stainless muffler? All he could say was, "This is America and Americans want chrome". Give me a break. My FJR has stainless mufflers and to me they're very attractive when they take on a slight golden color.

Talked to two BMW dealers with these questions and got no answers. One told me they never get questions like this from their customers and all of their customers rely on dealer maintenance. These bikes are spendy and I'm just trying to figure out if I really want to join the party. I was told the 600 mile service is $900, really, I mean really??

As far as looks go I think BMW could have done better but that's just personal perspective talking here. My main concern is top heavy or not and compared with what?

I totally agree with you about the whistles and bells. I like my F800GT for some of those same reasons. And why anyone would mount a radio on a motorcycle, is beyond me. It's something Harley Davidson does, and makes no sense. If wind noise inside your helmet is enough to cause permanent hearing loss...you have to make the radio louder than the wind noise to be heard. And what's that do to your hearing?

I wish you luck in your search.

Chris

jammess said:

Been following the wethead forum for awhile and some people have commented that the new R1200RT is top heavy. How does the new RT compare with the R1150RT for being top heavy? I owned an '04 RT since new and the top heaviness really bothered me especially as I got older. Sold it two years ago when I found my FJR and to me the FJR is not at all top heavy when compared to the oilhead RT.

On the new RT with the new electronic suspension is the rear shock rebuildable or do you have to replace with new OEM when worn out? Shocks are a wear item and I can just imagine what a new OEM shock from BMW would cost.

I'm really thinking about a new RT but not sure the electronic suspension is really what I want or need. I'm not much into whistles and bells just for whistles and bells sake. Also, wonder if you can at least delete the radio from a loaded RT. I have absolutely no use for a radio on a motorcycle.

I think the basic model has a stainless steel muffler. I asked what's wrong with a stainless muffler? All he could say was, "This is America and Americans want chrome". Give me a break. My FJR has stainless mufflers and to me they're very attractive when they take on a slight golden color.

Talked to two BMW dealers with these questions and got no answers. One told me they never get questions like this from their customers and all of their customers rely on dealer maintenance. These bikes are spendy and I'm just trying to figure out if I really want to join the party. I was told the 600 mile service is $900, really, I mean really??

As far as looks go I think BMW could have done better but that's just personal perspective talking here. My main concern is top heavy or not and compared with what?

Click to expand...

Go to bmwmotorcycles.com and do a "build your own". You should be able to build a bike with the options you want and leave off those you don't. You may, however be limited in things like color choices in this case. You also may need to wait for such a bike to be built for you because in my experience the dealers order their in stock bikes with the premium package at a minimum, and that includes the things you have said you don't want.

You can always look around at difference dealers web sites for what they have in stock... you might find a stripped down model that's just what you're looking for.

In terms of being top heavy, I can say that the wet head feels much less top heavy than the 2005 that I previously had.

jammess said:

Talked to two BMW dealers with these questions and got no answers. One told me they never get questions like this from their customers and all of their customers rely on dealer maintenance.

Click to expand...

I would suggest that the person who told you this is either delusional or was trying to fool you into believing that you too should have the dealer do your maintenance. There are things that trained technicians should do, and many other things that many owners can do. Oil and filter changes, fluid changes, installing brake pads, bolting on new shocks, etc. come to mind. Depending on the model valve checks and adjustments are also a fairly simple owner item. Reflashing the ECU because they didn't get it right the first time, and detecting failed or failing sensors might best be left to the dealer.

jammess said:

Been following the wethead forum for awhile and some people have commented that the new R1200RT is top heavy. How does the new RT compare with the R1150RT for being top heavy? I owned an '04 RT since new and the top heaviness really bothered me especially as I got older. Sold it two years ago when I found my FJR and to me the FJR is not at all top heavy when compared to the oilhead RT.

On the new RT with the new electronic suspension is the rear shock rebuildable or do you have to replace with new OEM when worn out? Shocks are a wear item and I can just imagine what a new OEM shock from BMW would cost.

I'm really thinking about a new RT but not sure the electronic suspension is really what I want or need. I'm not much into whistles and bells just for whistles and bells sake. Also, wonder if you can at least delete the radio from a loaded RT. I have absolutely no use for a radio on a motorcycle.

I think the basic model has a stainless steel muffler. I asked what's wrong with a stainless muffler? All he could say was, "This is America and Americans want chrome". Give me a break. My FJR has stainless mufflers and to me they're very attractive when they take on a slight golden color.

Talked to two BMW dealers with these questions and got no answers. One told me they never get questions like this from their customers and all of their customers rely on dealer maintenance. These bikes are spendy and I'm just trying to figure out if I really want to join the party. I was told the 600 mile service is $900, really, I mean really??

As far as looks go I think BMW could have done better but that's just personal perspective talking here. My main concern is top heavy or not and compared with what?

Click to expand...

Top heavy, if you find your FJR to be less top heavy than your '04 RT, then you will like the wetheads.
I found my FJR was top heavy and that is one of the reasons I went to a wethead.

Suspension, yes, rebuildable by third parties. I don't know if a dealer would do it.

Yes, you don't have to buy the fully loaded model. Dealers tend to pre-order fully loaded but you can get one without all the bells and whistles. Mine doesn't have the chrome pipe, radio, alarm, keyless, electric locks, etc. It is however cheaper to order the options you want by packages than ordering just what you need.

$900 for a 600 miles maintenance? Considering it's just an oil and filter change, final drive fluid change and check for error codes, the person who told you that was either misinformed or pulling your leg. Mine cost less than $200 CDN. If that came from a dealer, don't walk, run out of there. LOL

As someone has already said above, try the "build your own" bike feature on BMW Motorrad USA's website. There you will find which items are only bundled as part of a larger package, and thus can't be deleted without deleting the entire package, and which items are considered "options", and can thus be left off, if you have the dealer order a bike. As far as I can see, there are only three "options": keyless ride, high seat, and low seat. On the other hand, there are no fewer than nine packages from which to choose (some of the individual items/features are in more than one package). The question then becomes, how far in advance must/can you order an RT built to your specifications. I've never seen a stripped-down RT on a dealer's floor, so I'm almost certain you would have to have the dealer order it, and wait months for delivery.

As for the 600-mile running-in check costing $900, whoever told you that is crazy. Either that, or somebody went to an unscrupulous dealer who included items that are not part of the BMW check list for that service.The running-in check on my 2015 GSA, performed at my dealer, cost $215 USD.

All of above is most interesting. I did visit the the "build your own" sight and that would be my choice. The basic model would be all I would want, pretty much. Encouraging the comments about top heavy being not an issue as that is (was) my primary concern. I also found out the first service is only $320 and the 12K service runs closer to $900 so I was mistaken. I remember it was $600 on my '04 RT at the time so I elected to do it myself including torque the heads. In fact after 12 years and 60K miles my '04 never saw a dealer shop or any shop but mine and that included trans spline lube and regular ABS brake flushes as well as tire changes. I would plan on the same with a new RT including valve clearance check which would be nothing compared to doing a valve check on an FJR at 26K miles.

I visited the marketplace here and spotted a most interesting 2016 RT with just under 6K miles that is loaded, I mean loaded for $17.9K ! I really got a kick out of the guy's description and his reason for selling. Seems he recently moved from Arizona to Iowa and just absolutely wants no part of riding a motorcycle in the area at all. What really cracks me up is this is where the MOA is holding zee beeg rally this year. I mean, you gotta see the humor.

Thanks again for the info. Oh, I talked to the BMW dealer in Eugene this morning and they told me what the Eugene PD motor officers have to say about their RTs and it is all very very positive indeed. They say the wetheads do absolutely everything they could ever ask of a motorcycle. They especially like the low speed handling. I just can't find any negatives when it comes to these bikes try as I might.

I also would find it hard to believe a 12k service is $900. The 12k on my GSA was $325, and that included a brake flush, front and rear. I can understand regional variances, but not three times the cost.

Just had 600+ mile service done on my 18 GSA at dealer for $220. Oil/filter- final drive fluid change and
System check.

I'm new to the R1200RT LC, replacing a K1300GT that I rode for 70K miles. I found the K bike to be a beast to move around in the garage, and especially to put on the center stand. I had one relatively mild garage tip-over with the K, a small plastic trash can taking a fatal hit but preventing damage to the bike. I find the new RT much easier to place on the center stand, but almost as unwieldy to move about in the garage as the K bike, and equally top heavy. Not surprising, as there is only about a 30 lb weight difference. Much more weight up high compared to my '05 RT, which was considerably lighter that the LC version as well. I'm looking at pannier/engine protection for the first time ever. An greasy spot at the gas station, loose sand or gravel when parking, even a sudden stop in traffic with the bike slightly of balance could result in a spill. Disclaimer: At 71, I'm just not as capable of wrenching the bike upright as in years past.

dlong said:

I'm new to the R1200RT LC, replacing a K1300GT that I rode for 70K miles. I found the K bike to be a beast to move around in the garage, and especially to put on the center stand. I had one relatively mild garage tip-over with the K, a small plastic trash can taking a fatal hit but preventing damage to the bike. I find the new RT much easier to place on the center stand, but almost as unwieldy to move about in the garage as the K bike, and equally top heavy. Not surprising, as there is only about a 30 lb weight difference. Much more weight up high compared to my '05 RT, which was considerably lighter that the LC version as well. I'm looking at pannier/engine protection for the first time ever. An greasy spot at the gas station, loose sand or gravel when parking, even a sudden stop in traffic with the bike slightly of balance could result in a spill. Disclaimer: At 71, I'm just not as capable of wrenching the bike upright as in years past.

Click to expand...

My experience has been the opposite... I find my 2016 wet head to be less top heavy than my prior 2005 RT (both while riding and while jockeying it around the garage). I believe that the wet weight of both bikes is pretty comparable as well.

jammess said:

On the new RT with the new electronic suspension is the rear shock rebuildable or do you have to replace with new OEM when worn out? Shocks are a wear item and I can just imagine what a new OEM shock from BMW would cost.

Click to expand...

The OEM shocks are about $2,700! Good news is Ted Porter's Beemshop (Google it) rebuilds them so as long as the servo and electronics don't fail you can get both rebuilt for eleven or twelve hundred. The cost is not unique to BMWs either, most manufacturers charge the same or more, even FJR's cost about that for electronic shocks if so equipped.

jammess said:

Talked to two BMW dealers with these questions and got no answers. One told me they never get questions like this from their customers and all of their customers rely on dealer maintenance. These bikes are spendy and I'm just trying to figure out if I really want to join the party. I was told the 600 mile service is $900, really, I mean really??

Click to expand...

I just bought a 2013 RT which is the last year of the previous generation, a so-called Cam-Head. I chose it over a new one (Wet-Head) because of a few factors:

1. Wetheads seemed (to me) to be a bit top heavy but not worse than the FJR so not something you should worry about but the FJR is a little heavier overall.
2. Water-cooling adds complexity and some weight (but since you're coming off an FJR this is a wash).
3. Depreciation

My last bike was an '05 FJR (awesome!!!) that I sold in '09 so I know exactly what your frame of reference is. You will have no issue at all with any generation RT. I do my own maintenance so cost of that doesn't factor in but that dealer sounds like a con artist. There's no way that first service should cost that much regardless of which gen you buy. If you did your own work on your FJR, the RT is going to be a piece of cake - it have half the cylinders and they stick way out there in the open for you. I still have nightmares about checking the valve clearances on my FJR. OMG. The RT is literally trivial by comparison.

I bought my Cam Head for less than half the cost of a new one with only 6,000 miles on it. These are dead reliable and cost about the same in parts (and generally labor in a reputable shop) so it all just depends on whether you want new or value. I think there's a lot of "if you have a BMW you have money so we'll gouge you" mentality in some places so beware of that. It's spendy, but you can get a device that allows you to access the bike's electronics and reset the service reminders and fault codes. There are BMW owners all over that might have one and just do it for you, I do and i'd be happy to help anyone that asks me, so don't let a dealer tell you you have to take it to them for service either.

Regardless, from a former FJR-rat, you'll really like this bike.

alegerlotz said:

My experience has been the opposite... I find my 2016 wet head to be less top heavy than my prior 2005 RT (both while riding and while jockeying it around the garage). I believe that the wet weight of both bikes is pretty comparable as well.

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I stand corrected on the weight...my perception may have changed a bit after 13 years. YMMV.

I had a 2004 R1150RT. A nice bike.

I suggest you consider a used 2007-2013 R1200RT so you move up more gently.

Well, after much thought I have decided to pass on a new RT and stick with the two really great bikes I have. Truth is I kind of like my FJR and I'll be buried with the '93 R1100RSL if I have my way. Ok, wife says I got to sell both if I want the new RT. Don't want it that bad.

Thanks for answering my questions.

I have a 2013 FJR and it is a great bike, however, they certainly do not hold their value. Well equipped, low mileage FJRs can be had for very little.

akbeemer said:

I have a 2013 FJR and it is a great bike, however, they certainly do not hold their value. Well equipped, low mileage FJRs can be had for very little.

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The same can be said for 1100/1150 beemers. In the case of the FJR Yamaha over produced generation 3 FJRs and began giving them away which didn't help with resale. Jeez, you could buy a left over 2015 FJR1300A for what, about 13K last year? Also, there is a huge difference in purchase price of a loaded 2018 FJR1300ES and a BMW R1200RT with the premium package as in about $7K. You wheel that new RT out the door and she drops like the proverbial rock. Pretty much the same thing with any new rolling stock though.

One thing I don't like about late model BMWs like the wethead RT is being tethered to BMW for things like ECU fault readout and diagnosis making purchase of a $400 GS911 necessary for the do-it-yourself guy. Now, maybe BMW has turned the corner in the reliability department and maybe not. It may be a bit too soon to tell although things do seem to be looking up as of late. Wish I knew what they (BMW) did to solve the problem of imploding final drives which was directly caused by introduction of the single sided swing arm. Obvious what they did to eliminate destruction of the trans input shaft splines. Wham bam, it's wet clutch with integrated engine transmission and problem solved. It took how many years to figure that one out? I think they should go one step further just for good measure and copy Yamaha's shaft drive layout complete with double sided swing arm.

Nope, no new BMW in my future.

While I agree thee BMW needs a mechanic to read all the fault codes, with a GS911 you can read quite a few codes, unlike a FJR which makes nothing for the home mechanic. I test rode a FJR, very nice bike, but not me. I like the more upright riding position. The other advantage that I like about the RT is I can adjust everything myself, cylinders are right there. No tank removal or shim buckets to buy.

Now I had a 2008 RT, nd I would say the 2018 is more nimble, a more neutral feel to steering, and best of all the first gear is way lower! No more clutch slipping at stoplights on a hill. In fact you can add hill assist, (pretty useful).

orforester said:

While I agree thee BMW needs a mechanic to read all the fault codes, with a GS911 you can read quite a few codes, unlike a FJR which makes nothing for the home mechanic. I test rode a FJR, very nice bike, but not me. I like the more upright riding position. The other advantage that I like about the RT is I can adjust everything myself, cylinders are right there. No tank removal or shim buckets to buy.

Now I had a 2008 RT, nd I would say the 2018 is more nimble, a more neutral feel to steering, and best of all the first gear is way lower! No more clutch slipping at stoplights on a hill. In fact you can add hill assist, (pretty useful).

Click to expand...

Depends on what year/generation your FJR is when it comes to fault diagnosis. On my 2010 if I were to get a fault lamp I can enter diagnostics mode and identify the fault then refer to the factory service manual for a code description and run the appropriate diagnostic tests, very simple using the on board LCD screen. later gen3 bikes require use of Yamaha dealer diagnostic readout equipment. But then in, I think, 2016 or 2017 when they went to the OBD2 system you can just buy a $100 wifi adaptor and the system will communicate directly with your laptop and maybe even an iphone but I don't know all the details since I don't own a gen3 and for other reasons don't really want one. Yamaha did some things with the gen3 I really don't like because these mostly mechanical changes cheapened the package. For example, I can sync all 4 throttle bodies not only at idle but off idle as well but with the gen3 (2013 - 2018) they simplified the TB linkage so some gen3 bikes buzz less than others depending on how close the TBs are matched and nothing you can do about it just the luck of the draw. They also made only one fork adjustable (damping, compression, rebound) instead of both forks being adjustable. The front sub-frame on gen1,2 is constructed of welded steel tubing but gen3 is just what I would call pot metal. So, don't drop the bike else you not only will buy a new mirror but also will have the joy of replacing the complete sub-frame and not an easy or fun job. Oh, on my gen2 I did a simple mod to the ECU cable connector so I can enter what is called the CO mode and adjust the idle fuel mixture on all 4 TBs using on-board diagnostics screen, pretty nice and results in a very smooth idle with little effect on fuel economy and also effects mixture off idle to maybe around 2K revs or so. This is supposed to be a dealer adjustment with use of a test adaptor cable connector but simple to just permanently move a pin on the ECU connector. FJR guys call this the Barbarian Jumper Mod. There, all you ever didn't want to know about an FJR. lol..lol..

I agree with the simplicity of performing maintenance like a valve adjustment on the BMW compared with bikes like the FJR. Just a non issue to do a valve adjustment on my '93 R1100RS. More like a two day job on the FJR but at least its at 26K miles and many never need adjustment at all. Still kind of a pain just to do a valve check.

Main reason for taking a pass on the wethead is my age and to tell the truth I'm just too cheap. Well, I would also have to sell both current bikes to keep the domestic peace if you know what I mean and I just could never part with the RSL. Can't say the same for the FJR. It's a super reliable motorcycle with many great attributes but like most bikes from Japan it lacks soul if you know what I mean and it's hard to define soul so not going there.