• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

  • Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.

    The Election forum is here: Election Forum

Motorcycle reliability comparison

My owning 20+ motorcycles pretty much reflects what most here have experienced, my BMW's have been far and away the most unreliable. I have had two catastrophe rear drive failures, two catastrophe input shaft failures, transmission failures and a bunch of other smaller failures. I even gave up on BMW for five years and rode 60,000 failure free miles on my second VFR.

However, I came back to BMW not because other brands lack soul, I came back because no one else makes a bike that meets my personal set of needs. This includes, shaft drive, good handling, ABS brakes, good luggage and most importantly, light weight. Oh ya, one other important item for me, BMW's are easy to work on.

I also returned to BMW knowing full well I was done with Oil Heads. My spline lube days are over. To be fair my days of doing valve clearance checks and adjustments on Honda V-Tec's is also done.

I will finish by saying that my current 2007 R1200R is the best motorcycle I have ever owned, that even includes a perfect reliability record.......knock on wood.
 
rad said:
I will finish by saying that my current 2007 R1200R is the best motorcycle I have ever owned, that even includes a perfect reliability record.......knock on wood.
Click to expand...

I have an 08 R12R Roadster and it has also been very reliable. I replaced a weeping outboard FD seal (20 minute/$25 DIY job) and an ignition switch (2 hr/$110 DIY job). Other than that it has been tires and service. It is a very easy bike to work on so even a ham handed hack such as I can do it. It seems the Roadsters of all iterations are less prone to the faults that plague other models. One need only peruse the R1200R.org forum to see that FD failures are not as big of a concern as on the RT and GS. Now fuel strips is a different issue. I've not had to replace mine, but there are some that are on their 4-6th strip. The warranty for this part is now 12 years and it is not a deadlining fault, so it does not worry me much. I took mine in for the fuel line recall and found it had 4 other unattended recalls. That was the first time in seven years it had seen the inside of a dealer's service area. Now it awaits the wheel flange fix. The R1200R remains one of my most favorite bikes of all time
 
henzilla said:
I may be odd man out here, however I use CR to buy a refrigerator or a yard machine, not a motorcycle:scratch

Data is a funny thing as it can and has been tweaked for the desired results by many a company.
Have had many brands of cars and bikes using what engineers cringe at ...Gut feeling:laugh. Been working for me so I'll stick with it.

Have '67- '09 models and not scared to own any of them.
Click to expand...

Stated another way..."Statics are like Bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they conceal is vital"!
 
First a larger % of BMW owners are anal retentive, so what is perceived as a problem to many, would not be to the average Joe. Plus if you pay more you expect more.

Let me relate another real scenario, that I believe is parallel. My son owns a nice 535 BMW auto, he takes it in to the dealer for the required State safety inspection, passes no problem. But when he picks it up they tell him he has 2 problems and give him an estimate of about $2000 for repair. Both were oil leaks, that they tell him could lead to engine and transmission failure, if they got worse.

As we do all our own work, he stops by and we take a look, First question I ask him is if he was seeing any oil on the garage floor, to which she replies no. So we take a look and sure enough there is a small bit of seepage around where are a cable goes into the transmission through a rubber grommet not enough to even drip but just enough to collect a little dust . Same for the engine leak, there's a housing the bolts to the block for the oil filter it to has a very slight seepage , again not enough to even run down the side but just enough to make a little greasy if you run your finger along it .

The average driver probably scared that his motor would blow up for his transmission would fall on the ground gets out his checkbook and pays them to fix these two little issues. Meanwhile the average Ford /Toyota owner goes to Joe's garage for his inspection and Joe having to make money honestly knows that a little bit of oil seepage is not uncommon and nothing to worry about.

25 years ago big dealerships , with pressure from manufacturers turned into the Taj Mahal, and needed cash to do so . That along with the greed has turned most service departments into sales departments where they try to sell you everything under the sun, whether you need it or not . That is the reason I left a 20 year career in automotive service many years ago .

So BMW owner is $2000 poorer, and complains of high maintenance costs. Ford/Toyota owner buys some oil dry for the occasional drip on the garage floor, and is happy because the car still starts and runs.
 
pffog said:
First a larger % of BMW owners are anal retentive, so what is perceived as a problem to many, would not be to the average Joe. Plus if you pay more you expect more.

Let me relate another real scenario, that I believe is parallel. My son owns a nice 535 BMW auto, he takes it in to the dealer for the required State safety inspection, passes no problem. But when he picks it up they tell him he has 2 problems and give him an estimate of about $2000 for repair. Both were oil leaks, that they tell him could lead to engine and transmission failure, if they got worse.

As we do all our own work, he stops by and we take a look, First question I ask him is if he was seeing any oil on the garage floor, to which she replies no. So we take a look and sure enough there is a small bit of seepage around where are a cable goes into the transmission through a rubber grommet not enough to even drip but just enough to collect a little dust . Same for the engine leak, there's a housing the bolts to the block for the oil filter it to has a very slight seepage , again not enough to even run down the side but just enough to make a little greasy if you run your finger along it .

The average driver probably scared that his motor would blow up for his transmission would fall on the ground gets out his checkbook and pays them to fix these two little issues. Meanwhile the average Ford /Toyota owner goes to Joe's garage for his inspection and Joe having to make money honestly knows that a little bit of oil seepage is not uncommon and nothing to worry about.

25 years ago big dealerships , with pressure from manufacturers turned into the Taj Mahal, and needed cash to do so . That along with the greed has turned most service departments into sales departments where they try to sell you everything under the sun, whether you need it or not . That is the reason I left a 20 year career in automotive service many years ago .

So BMW owner is $2000 poorer, and complains of high maintenance costs. Ford/Toyota owner buys some oil dry for the occasional drip on the garage floor, and is happy because the car still starts and runs.
Click to expand...

A sound observation, yet it is also true, I believe, that the Toyota and some other brands are much less likely to develop the seepage issues to begin with.
 
akbeemer said:
A sound observation, yet it is also true, I believe, that the Toyota...are much less likely to develop the seepage issues to begin with.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the guy who's flyin' flat out down the highway 'cause his accelerator is stuck on the floor. :laugh
 
pffog said:
So BMW owner is $2000 poorer, and complains of high maintenance costs. Ford/Toyota owner buys some oil dry for the occasional drip on the garage floor, and is happy because the car still starts and runs.
Click to expand...

My Toyota dealer told me my water pump was leaking. I never saw any puddles or any sign of leakage. But since water pumps are wear items, I let then replace it. But at only 75K miles, that seemed awfully early, especially for a Toyota. A water pump should last around 125K miles, and replacing @ 100K or so is reasonable.

And what old car doesn't have oil seepage?

Harry
 
stuck gas pedal

akbeemer said:
Urban legends die hard.
Click to expand...

I had a 1966 Ford Fairlaine GTA with a 390 engine. On my way home from work at K Mart one night I floored it as I went by my girlfriends house. The accelerator stuck all the way to the floor. Had to turn off the ignition to stop it.

Anything can happen.
 
Hey Harry - my Toyota dealer told me the same bull - that my Camry's water pump was leaking (it was in for some minor "technical campaign"-type thing & verified no problem)... The service manager advised me of it when I was in to pick up the car, and he offered to make the appointment... I declined, and absolutely scrutinized it when I got home - dry as a bone, and zero issues before or since. Sounds like that's a standard "Gotcha" that they try to pull... let's do the turn signal fluid too...
Interestingly, while the "name" and brand of this dealer has changed (Manhattan Toyota on PCH), it's the same place that blatantly tried to F me with the warranty on my Ford many years ago; I wrote a detailed nastigram to Ford Inc about that, and they contacted the dealer & told them to pay it the F up.

I have a 16-page PDF from a German engineer back in 2010 that explains how the "sticking" brake pedal folly was a blatant smokescreen for other issues, including software and poor solder + soldering of the electronics.

Good thing I can do this stuff myself - if needed.
 
AKsuited said:
My Toyota dealer told me my water pump was leaking. I never saw any puddles or any sign of leakage. But since water pumps are wear items, I let then replace it. But at only 75K miles, that seemed awfully early, especially for a Toyota. A water pump should last around 125K miles, and replacing @ 100K or so is reasonable.

And what old car doesn't have oil seepage?

Harry
Click to expand...

I have a friend on his 4th water pump on his K1600. It's not uncommon to have a failure or two. I think water pumps are "settled engineering".
 
"4th water pump"

Ah, a so called "Banana Product" = "ripens at the customer side"

I am getting used to that in our high tech world every product I buy is a "Version 1.0".

I think the owner of the K1600 should call himself lucky that BMW did have THREE 'spare' water pumps for his brand new bike. :dance

/Guenther - stuck in airhead world
 
ponch1 said:
I have a friend on his 4th water pump on his K1600. It's not uncommon to have a failure or two. I think water pumps are "settled engineering".
Click to expand...
At my ripe old :gerg I can remember water pumps that had a grease fitting :eek
OM
 
ponch1 said:
I have a friend on his 4th water pump on his K1600. It's not uncommon to have a failure or two. I think water pumps are "settled engineering".
Click to expand...

But, the cost savings from a lower cost vendor is the foundation of a promising executive career. Thus, the saga is often repeated.....
 
Guenther said:
"4th water pump"

Ah, a so called "Banana Product" = "ripens at the customer side"

I am getting used to that in our high tech world every product I buy is a "Version 1.0".

I think the owner of the K1600 should call himself lucky that BMW did have THREE 'spare' water pumps for his brand new bike. :dance

/Guenther - stuck in airhead world
Click to expand...

Actually they didn't on the last one. He got stranded in Austin and had to fly home because the dealer didn't have a pump and it had to be ordered from Germany. BMW even gypped him out of some money for the roadside assistance. Between the flights and R&B, I don't think they covered 25% of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

brownie0486
Ridersshare releases their findings of reliability of brands they rent out
Replies
4
Views
1K
pauls1150
pauls1150
rocinante
Ignorant Newbie Wants BMW Buying Advice
2 3 4
Replies
72
Views
6K
globalrider
globalrider
D
Tall Guy Fit
Replies
3
Views
815
ttacke
T
J
New Owner/Old Rider
Replies
7
Views
714
bernieecht
bernieecht
S
BMW Rider's Manual - Is It Me?
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
pglaves
pglaves
Back
Top