mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
This morning could not get logged into the forum using Firefox 32 until I cleared the browser cache.
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Forum Operations
- Thread starter akbeemer
- Start date
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- Tags
- forum upgrade
This morning could not get logged into the forum using Firefox 32 until I cleared the browser cache.
lee
Debbie's Servant
Why do you fell only a couple of us have the login problem?
When I came into work this morning I cleared my cookies and history again, plus deleted my bookmark. I still have to login each time. This started yesterday.
mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
Problems during upgrade
As one who has worked in the Information Technology field for 25 years I understand both the forum operations side and the user perspective side. I have only belonged to this forum for a few months though and can't speak to the past. Software upgrades are a necessary part of doing business for many reasons beyond what is apparent to the end user, web site security for one. I am sure all of you would agree it is necessary to do everything possible to try and prevent hackers from gaining access to your user names, passwords, and other profile information that might be stored on these servers. If done regularly with proper planning and testing they usually go smoothly with little apparent notice to the end user. However even in this scenario updates can break things once in a while. If put off for years they usually become huge headaches for everyone. That seems to be the issue here. I hope the current forum operators in control of these updates understand the importance of staying current and plan on doing so once this big leap is accomplished. That will mitigate these types of problems in the future. I also encourage users to give them time to work out the bugs being experienced now. What is going on behind the scenes is a lot more complicated then you can imagine. It might take a week or so for the dust to settle. Be patient. Going back is not an option in this case. Now if this upgrade snafu is something that has been going on for years in the same type of cycle with the same results and is being done by the same crew then changes should be made at the operations level. No excuse for that if you have the budget to hire the skill sets necessary. Just my 2 cents worth. For those of you who just plain don't like to deal with change, sorry, but it is a necessary evil in the world of software. And this business changes faster and more often than any other.
As one who has worked in the Information Technology field for 25 years I understand both the forum operations side and the user perspective side. I have only belonged to this forum for a few months though and can't speak to the past. Software upgrades are a necessary part of doing business for many reasons beyond what is apparent to the end user, web site security for one. I am sure all of you would agree it is necessary to do everything possible to try and prevent hackers from gaining access to your user names, passwords, and other profile information that might be stored on these servers. If done regularly with proper planning and testing they usually go smoothly with little apparent notice to the end user. However even in this scenario updates can break things once in a while. If put off for years they usually become huge headaches for everyone. That seems to be the issue here. I hope the current forum operators in control of these updates understand the importance of staying current and plan on doing so once this big leap is accomplished. That will mitigate these types of problems in the future. I also encourage users to give them time to work out the bugs being experienced now. What is going on behind the scenes is a lot more complicated then you can imagine. It might take a week or so for the dust to settle. Be patient. Going back is not an option in this case. Now if this upgrade snafu is something that has been going on for years in the same type of cycle with the same results and is being done by the same crew then changes should be made at the operations level. No excuse for that if you have the budget to hire the skill sets necessary. Just my 2 cents worth. For those of you who just plain don't like to deal with change, sorry, but it is a necessary evil in the world of software. And this business changes faster and more often than any other.
lee
Debbie's Servant
When the big update to the home page was done a couple weeks ago I was able to clear everything and login.
Now with this update to the forum I'm stuck.
I'll sit back and wait a few days and see if things get better.
Well said. Couple this with a homepage that needs security and the requests from members wanting to only log in once yet access all areas- it ain't easy.
We will get there.
OM
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
Hi right back at ya Gary.
Unfortunately, this thread has become a discussion of the relatively specfic issues with people logging in; there is another thread dedicated to that. My intent was for it to be a comment and discussion on the broader subject of how the technical side of the forum's operation is being managed; who is overseeing these changes and are they doing it well enough to meet our needs?
I understand that software must evolve and that there are challanges in making the needed changes. At issue is do we have the right people, with the needed experience, training, education and resources to make the changes competently? I believe that the answer to that question is at best unknown, but the results seem to indicate that the answer is no. I like many others lived through several software upgrades back in my professional life. Some went well and some were problematical, the MOA's change falls into the problamatical catagory. Was this unavoidable? Do other forums make similar upgrades without the extended negative impact on operations that the MOA has experienced for years? I do not believe that our issues are the result of us being far out in front of other forums and that their day is coming. Other forums that I participate in have announced upgrades and then had a short duration interuption in service. Once service was reestablished things generally work well. Never have I seen an extended period of disrupted service as we are experiencing.
What I'm asking for is a little introspection by the people overseeing the technical side of the forum's daily operations as well as the current and future changes. Perhaps they need some help from others who are better equipped to oversee the change.
FYI, for several hours before I went to bed last night I was unable to login at all on any of my devices. This morning it seems to be okay. I did nothing to my cache or any of the other recommended work arounds.
I completely agree with Kevin's comments in his first post starting this thread. I'm having the same experience. Mac OS 10.8.5, Firefox 33.1, worked fine until this morning. Today, there is no automatic login, and a half-dozen refusals to keep me logged in after entering my login info manually: I could log in, get the "Thank you for logging in, dbrick" message, and the subsequent screen would repeatedly show me as not logged in. After half a dozen tries, login "took" and I can post again.
During this process, I removed all MOA and forums.bmwmoa cookies. I am reluctant to erase all other history as that would include all passwords and logins on other internet sites I visit. I value ease of use with those sites too.
I understand and accept that this is complicated stuff. OTOH, I observe - as have others - that other similar sites work with far less fussing than this one. I plan to stay, this is a nice community, but this isn't the first time recently the very essence of the site - connection between members - has been significantly impaired. Fooling around to get it to work properly shouldn't be on the members' morning agenda.
During this process, I removed all MOA and forums.bmwmoa cookies. I am reluctant to erase all other history as that would include all passwords and logins on other internet sites I visit. I value ease of use with those sites too.
I understand and accept that this is complicated stuff. OTOH, I observe - as have others - that other similar sites work with far less fussing than this one. I plan to stay, this is a nice community, but this isn't the first time recently the very essence of the site - connection between members - has been significantly impaired. Fooling around to get it to work properly shouldn't be on the members' morning agenda.
GeorgeR1200RT
New member
I am having no significant issues with the Forum. I simply sign in and out each time I use it.
For all other applications, it will frequently show me as signed in...but will not work until I sign out and then sign in again.
The Fleamarket is very hard to navigate and apparently dumped my listing. I will wait a while let things get refined before I attempt to re-list.
I have been a member of BMWMOA since the 1970's. The magazine and anonymous book were primary items of interest until the internet age. I look forward to seeing the website changes evolve and improve.
For all other applications, it will frequently show me as signed in...but will not work until I sign out and then sign in again.
The Fleamarket is very hard to navigate and apparently dumped my listing. I will wait a while let things get refined before I attempt to re-list.
I have been a member of BMWMOA since the 1970's. The magazine and anonymous book were primary items of interest until the internet age. I look forward to seeing the website changes evolve and improve.
I'm Your Huckleberry!
OK. First off. If you are having problems logging in, call or email me directly. ted@bmwmoa.org, 205-821-7205. I'll be glad to help you. I can tell you that my username has remained logged in on three different machines, three mobile devices and three browsers overnight. It has remembered me on each even with a shutdown and reboot. All of this after 9pm last night when I made some adjustments to the system to try and clear this up.
Second thought. With the new authentication system installed yesterday, you made need a password reset to set a new cookie on your machine. I can reset a password for you or you can click the link on the login page and it will take you to the password reset screen.
If you are having difficulty logging in all together, contact me and I will look into it further. There could be something that didn't transfer correctly in the data migration recently or an expired user or a bunch of different other things.
Again, best bet is to contact me directly, anytime, day or night and I will look into it for you. Email is best, but you can call me as well.
Now, for Kevin's question, the answer is "No." I have no formal vB training. I'm not an expert at vBulletin and I am not even an IT person by trade. I'm the guy who stepped forward and agreed to help with the systems since there is no one else here to do it. The reality is the MOA has no IT resource on staff. We do not have an IT manager or even a network engineer or anything close to that. Should we? Maybe, but it isn't in the cards or the budget at the moment. Trust me, no one would love to have an IT guy here more than me. And, don't forget that most of us on staff and dealing with this today inherited it from someone else.
The driver behind this is a switch to a new member management system. That was a necessary change because the old one didn't not work, wasn't supported by the vendor and wasn't going to work in the near future without a significant investment of funds that we don't have. As for the Flea Market, how quickly we forget that you could not receive messages in the old system. You could not search for a listing by keyword and you could not list more than four pictures. That system was broken, too and Panjo is going to be a great alternative. There is some learning to be done, but it will be a gigantic improvement over what we had.
As for the forum, again, the changes were necessary to integrate with the rest of our software. We have a much more complex system than some of the other forums you mention. Most of those sites are simply forums. They do not collect money for dues. They have a simple database for member names and no authentication against an expiration date. They don't have to register people for events. They don't have to send membership cards or renewal notices or billing records or number of years as member or who received an Anonymous Book and when. And on and on and on.
Not making excuses, but it is bigger than just a forum and a lot more complex than what has been represented here. You are correct that we need more help in this area, but paid staff isn't an option, vB consultants are exceptionally rare and I haven't had anyone beat down the doors and say they are vB experts and willing to help us out on a volunteer basis. If that person is out there, I want to talk to you.
First things, first. I am confident we have the right setup at the moment can and will work correctly. Let's get everyone logged in and remembered. After that, I'll be happy to engage anyone that wants to discuss our IT needs and available resources.
OK. First off. If you are having problems logging in, call or email me directly. ted@bmwmoa.org, 205-821-7205. I'll be glad to help you. I can tell you that my username has remained logged in on three different machines, three mobile devices and three browsers overnight. It has remembered me on each even with a shutdown and reboot. All of this after 9pm last night when I made some adjustments to the system to try and clear this up.
Second thought. With the new authentication system installed yesterday, you made need a password reset to set a new cookie on your machine. I can reset a password for you or you can click the link on the login page and it will take you to the password reset screen.
If you are having difficulty logging in all together, contact me and I will look into it further. There could be something that didn't transfer correctly in the data migration recently or an expired user or a bunch of different other things.
Again, best bet is to contact me directly, anytime, day or night and I will look into it for you. Email is best, but you can call me as well.
Now, for Kevin's question, the answer is "No." I have no formal vB training. I'm not an expert at vBulletin and I am not even an IT person by trade. I'm the guy who stepped forward and agreed to help with the systems since there is no one else here to do it. The reality is the MOA has no IT resource on staff. We do not have an IT manager or even a network engineer or anything close to that. Should we? Maybe, but it isn't in the cards or the budget at the moment. Trust me, no one would love to have an IT guy here more than me. And, don't forget that most of us on staff and dealing with this today inherited it from someone else.
The driver behind this is a switch to a new member management system. That was a necessary change because the old one didn't not work, wasn't supported by the vendor and wasn't going to work in the near future without a significant investment of funds that we don't have. As for the Flea Market, how quickly we forget that you could not receive messages in the old system. You could not search for a listing by keyword and you could not list more than four pictures. That system was broken, too and Panjo is going to be a great alternative. There is some learning to be done, but it will be a gigantic improvement over what we had.
As for the forum, again, the changes were necessary to integrate with the rest of our software. We have a much more complex system than some of the other forums you mention. Most of those sites are simply forums. They do not collect money for dues. They have a simple database for member names and no authentication against an expiration date. They don't have to register people for events. They don't have to send membership cards or renewal notices or billing records or number of years as member or who received an Anonymous Book and when. And on and on and on.
Not making excuses, but it is bigger than just a forum and a lot more complex than what has been represented here. You are correct that we need more help in this area, but paid staff isn't an option, vB consultants are exceptionally rare and I haven't had anyone beat down the doors and say they are vB experts and willing to help us out on a volunteer basis. If that person is out there, I want to talk to you.
First things, first. I am confident we have the right setup at the moment can and will work correctly. Let's get everyone logged in and remembered. After that, I'll be happy to engage anyone that wants to discuss our IT needs and available resources.
mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
Sorry to hear that. An organization your size needs to find a way to budget for this because this infrastructure can make or break you. If you can't afford a staff person then you need to at least hire outside services qualified to help. This might require a realignment of budget priorities but make no mistake, IT needs to be recognized as a very important investment in the future of your organization.
I appreciate your effort and hope you aren't in over your head.
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
Tom,
Firstly, thank you for stepping up and doing the job. Your explaination of the situation, as I understand you, makes things clearer; an unusually complex system requiring an upgrade and integration across multiple platforms is being managed essentially by one hardworking guy without the support and background one would expect in a high performing organization. One the one hand it is important to realize the sad state of affairs that would exist were it not for your efforts, again thank you. On the other hand it is important for the MOA to realize that more resources are needed to support your efforts. As was mentioned earlier, a glitchy forum will do little to attract or hold on to members old or new. Thanks for your post.
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mika
Still Wondering
mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
Ted, sorry to report my iPad continues to have problems remembering me even after clearing safari cache, history, etc. and resetting my password per your recommendation.
Hi Mike, could you go to "settings"- "Safari"- and work your way through to see the remembered passwords (more importantly) the web address. I'm curious what the address is. I have taken out BMWMOA.ORG on mine and I'm waiting to see what the new "set" is.
Thanks, Gary
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
This is so Ridiculous: I am totally baffled as to how BMW MOA with their annual dues fee structure cannot afford to have an IT person on board, our AZ Beemers Dues are only $36 for 3 years and for only one Dollar a month AZ Beemers has a website that works flawlessly! We have had Kevin Reed as our outside services qualified Guy for eight years now, contact him! Contact Info: kreed at tnet.com - tnet.services at gmail.com
AZBeemers website isn't an apples to apples comparison. It may serve your purpose for $1/month, but doesn't have any of the functionality to be a relevant comparison.
Hi Don, your FJR forum that you referenced is an IP Board forum- not really the same thing.
I just checked the AZ Beemers site- got this
[I]Valid XHTML 1.0 | Valid CSS
Modified: April 04 2013 01:19:55 MST - #Congrats. Your Counter File Successfully Created.
Your counter has been initialized to 1
To change the counter simply modify the counter file:
/phpcounter/
Warning: chmod(): No such file or directory in /home/azbeemer/public_html/phpcounter/counter.php on line 56
Warning: fopen(/phpcounter/): failed to open stream: Is a directory in /home/azbeemer/public_html/phpcounter/counter.php on line 57
Warning: fputs() expects parameter 1 to be resource, boolean given in /home/azbeemer/public_html/phpcounter/counter.php on line 61
1
Warning: fclose() expects parameter 1 to be resource, boolean given in /home/azbeemer/public_html/phpcounter/counter.php on line 69
Copyright ? 2012, AZ Beemers - Web Template ? 1997-2012 TNET Services, Inc. - AZ Beemers, P.O. Box 2887, Chandler, AZ 85244[/I]
Don't know what that means but it looks like the AZ Beemers site is "in general" one of the smaller customized message boards. It would would most likely not work here but looks fine for your application.
Gary
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
Dear Gary: Thank you so very much for taking the time to investigate this matter for me, but this only proves to me that I am not going to renew my BMW MOA dues after 35+ years of continuous BMW MOA Membership. I will certainly miss Owners News (I still miss Vince Winkel!), but I am friends with Sandy Cohen and I have subscribed to her wonderful "BMW Motorcycle Magazine" since the very first issue! I just fail to understand how for $40 a year we cannot have a fully functional Forum and Flea Market. The bottom line for this 66 year old Beemerphile, on a fixed Social Security income, is that I can enjoy free forums at Adventure Rider, K1600 Forum and so many other BMW oriented sites!
