Dynabeads

BlackdogGS said:

No kidding, I can't believe how many are still followers.

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Not a follower. Also not a fan of bad science. MCN didn't understand what beads do and due to that lack of knowledge "tested" what the beads cant do. The results shows the ignorance of the MCN reviewer, not how good or bad beads may be in a motorcycle tire. Bad show on MCNs part.

I have a lot of problems with the beads due to unanswered questions, questions a magazine such as MCN could have answered with some well designed tests. I suspect the beads would have rated a C or D with good tests and will not use them for that reason. But I'm only guessing. It would have been nice to know instead of having to guess.

I can't believe I let myself get sucked into this.

jammess said:

Dyna Beads = Snake Oil

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I hope no snakes are harmed when harvesting snake oil.

marchyman said:

Not a follower. Also not a fan of bad science. MCN didn't understand what beads do and due to that lack of knowledge "tested" what the beads cant do. The results shows the ignorance of the MCN reviewer, not how good or bad beads may be in a motorcycle tire. Bad show on MCNs part.

I have a lot of problems with the beads due to unanswered questions, questions a magazine such as MCN could have answered with some well designed tests. I suspect the beads would have rated a C or D with good tests and will not use them for that reason. But I'm only guessing. It would have been nice to know instead of having to guess.

I can't believe I let myself get sucked into this.

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I don't know enough to know so I will ask. Why would using a tire balancing machine, which is use to balance tires, be bad science when trying to determine if beads work or not?

It seems to me that using that machine would be the best way to make a judgement on the effectiveness of beads in balancing an unbalanced tire.

Bud said:

I don't know enough to know so I will ask. Why would using a tire balancing machine, which is use to balance tires, be bad science when trying to determine if beads work or not?

It seems to me that using that machine would be the best way to make a judgement on the effectiveness of beads in balancing an unbalanced tire.

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And so it seemed to MCN.
Easy mistake to make.

The answer is in post #91

jammess said:

You would be wrong. I tried them when I began changing my own tires a few years ago and the only reason I did was to save the expense of buying a good static balancer which I ended up doing and what I should have done in the first place. I could tell there was an imbalance when starting out from a stop and the problem persisted until about 30 mph. The other thing that bothered me was the effect tire lubricant might have on the beads with tubeless tires. As far as better tire life goes you can't prove it by me. Just get a good static balancer and take the time to do it right.

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You are correct that the use of tire lubricant will cause clumping, which is why many who have tried the beads have been disappointed. When I re-mount my tire, I always completely polish the inside of the wheel, so that it is as slick as possible, so I don't use any lubricant. It's a bit of a chore to initially get the tire bead to set, but other than that, I've never had any issues with the beads clumping up and causing any wobble at hwy speed or from 0 to 30. I recently stopped at the No-Mar distributor in Fenton MO, and asked about purchasing some tires and having them mount them as mounting is free, and asked if they would use the beads for balancing and they replied they would not, because they use a lot of lubricant when remounting. Makes it easier for them and I guess time is money, but for me, I'll do it myself, do it right, and not have the necessity to purchase a wheel balancer, which is not appropriate to drag along with me for on-the-road tire changing on a long tour....I have a small clamp bead breaker and tire spoons that fit well in my tool kit, so I'm good to go. Maybe not for everyone, and if I was lazy (to coin a past comment) I'd just head for a tire shop and let them do it for me.... So, in answer to the very first original comment asking for information from folks who have actual experience with the beads, check me off in the survey column that says yes, and pleased with the results so far. That may change when I use them in adventure (50/50) tires, but will be glad to comment in the future on that.....

motorradmike said:

MCN made a mistake (7-1/2 years ago).

The beads distribute around the inside of the tire to null out eccentric motion at the axle.
If the axle is fixed by the dynamic balancer, the beads distribute evenly around the inside of the tire.
The balancer will indicate the same weights in the same places with or without beads.

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The big question in my mind is...then how do you test them?

Bud said:

I don't know enough to know so I will ask. Why would using a tire balancing machine, which is use to balance tires, be bad science when trying to determine if beads work or not?

It seems to me that using that machine would be the best way to make a judgement on the effectiveness of beads in balancing an unbalanced tire.

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Because beads don't balance wheel/tires and a spin balancer checks for tire/wheel balance. . At best beads will do nothing with respect to tire/wheel balance. If the tire isn't round the beads could make tire/wheel balance worse. What beads can do is balance out the effect an out of balance tire/wheel has on your suspension. Since it is the suspension effect that is felt when a tire is out of balance many are happy with beads -- there suspension doesn't buck up and down any more; the beads must work.

If you're going to test beads you need some kind of setup that measures suspension dynamics. There are youtube videos that almost show this, but they show the suspension with the wheel in free space and the tire spinning at a fixed RPM. What happens when the tire is on the road? A bumpy road? Do things change when the bike is leaning? What happens when tire RPM is constantly changing? Is there any extra wear on wheel bearings because of radial load due to an out-of-balance wheel? Those are questions I'd like to see answered. I suspect they have not been answered because they wouldn't show beads in their best light.

88bmwjeff said:

The big question in my mind is...then how do you test them?

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Start with a motorcycle wheel/tire assembly that has been balanced traditionally with weights using either a static or dynamic balance machine.
Verify it feels balanced(no shaking) up to say 70MPH.

- Without tampering with the traditional balancing, add weight to one spot on the wheel until it shakes because it is obviously out of balance.
- Weigh the weight you had to add to get the out of balance condition then put it back on the wheel.
- Add that weight of beads(+ 1/2 ounce) to the tire and observe whether or not the shaking goes away.

Video the axle of the wheel you are testing with a GoPro fixed to the bike frame such that part of the frame and the axle and a GPS showing speed are all in the shot.
Ride smoothly from stop to 70MPH for the main test.
Add a test that includes a good bump.
Include results from riding like you're on a track if you like but document that as such.

Post results here.

I had a buddy that changed his fleet to "Super Singles" on his trucks. They couldn't be balanced with the equipment he had and decided on beads.

He smoked the tires and fast. He put almost $20,000.00 into a machine to balance conventionally. He smoked the tires and fast.

Now, we are at over half a M to convert his fleet and his tire costs have exploded. I can't say what he said on this forum because of sensitive ears. Need to be politically correct here you see.

Could be the tires, lots of data shows that they can't match conventional duals. Could be running light on pressure. Could be this and could be that. Beads didn't work and in the end, expensive. Try busting a bead on a "Super Single", drop the beads at $30.00/tire and get it to seat, not an economical choice in the long run.

I remain middle of the road. Beads/Balancing. I would like to see data that either is actually worth the cost.

Measuring vibration??

I see an interesting app in the Android app store (and assume the same is available for the iPhone) that measures vibration. I'm wondering if it would be a useful proxy for quantifying tire "balance"? After all, the primary reason we balance tires is to provide a smooth ride and increase tire life.

I'm in Afghanistan, so can't run an experiment, but think it would be useful. Of course, it would take a bit of effort to switch between weights and Dynabeads, and it would be impossible to control road surface variations....but it could still be instructive in this on-going discussion about Dynabeads. I'm curious if the Vibrometer app might be too sensitive, but it makes me think that there is some suitable equipment in existence.

Just a thought from the sandbox.....

Dynabeads actually work.In 2010 a group of us rode from winnipeg to the d2d in Dawson,from there we would split up,2 would go to pruhdo bay and the other two we would ride up to inuvik as we thought the dempster was more challenging and also I had previously arranged to meet up with a couple of blokes who were on a world trip.The plan for us then was inuvik then over "the top of the world highway" to dip our toes in alaska, back to winnipeg service the machines then to mesa verde np then whitesands np in nm back to colorado where we would part company.At the start of the trip we would take a set of tkc80s and put them on for the unpaved stuff and prior to going i mounted these to see if i would need to balance them, as it happened i didn't so i blobbed some paint on the tyre at the valve and did the same with my road tyres as these would also go back on for the return trip.The two round the world fellers nationalities are english and australian and my canadian companion asked the english bloke if he was an aussie he said "No,why do people keep saying that" looking at me as i'm english,mycanadian mate then assumed the aussie was a brit and said "you yanks get everything arse about face mate" and turned his back.Anyway back in Battlefords canadian says to aussie "you brits are going too fast i cant stand the vibration my tires out of balance".he was a believer that new tyres arewell balanced,anyway after some gassing the aussie pulled out some dynabeads and 'ere,yank,pute these in yer tubes mate" the look he gave the aussie was a mixture of anger and wtf are they, the latter being what i thought as i had never seen them before.Anyway,he stuck them in and they worked and he uses them still and i take a tbe for emergencies.we got wpg and canada guy finally cheesed off being called a yank says I'm a canadian and aussie replies "I know mate,i'm an aussie, dont it pee you off being called summet else".I've used them and they do work,but they're too messy with tubeless as i get them everywhere when i take them off and i slip everywhere.Iwasn't aware of any low speed wobble,my mate on his f800gs,well he spent the previous decade plowing the roads of manitoba on a harley so he might think it was normal as every harley rider i see wobbles at low speed.

Not all tire lubes are the same stuff & some don't clump beads.
If you read tire lube threads it is almost as amazing as the beads (if ya like em,of course) the various crap that people use to mount a tire-some of which is actually bad for rubber.
I wonder if I could pull some $$$money$$$ from the "bead people" as I'm one of the so-called idiots that has used them and actually likes them? I'm not young, beautiful nor particularly photogenic
Yeh, it's white outside again...

kantuckid said:

...the various crap that people use to mount a tire-some of which is actually bad for rubber.

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You mean like Armor-All which leaving tire bead mounting aside, I have read should not be used on tire sidewalls.

Of course I read that on a forum, and we all know how accurate forums and internet information is.

I have yet to see any detrimental effects though and I have an eagle eye.

kantuckid said:

Not all tire lubes are the same stuff & some don't clump beads.
If you read tire lube threads it is almost as amazing as the beads (if ya like em,of course) the various crap that people use to mount a tire-some of which is actually bad for rubber.
I wonder if I could pull some $$$money$$$ from the "bead people" as I'm one of the so-called idiots that has used them and actually likes them? I'm not young, beautiful nor particularly photogenic
Yeh, it's white outside again...

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I bought the smallest container of "Tire Lube" from NAPA, it was one gallon. I still have a lot left after mounting several sets of tires. Clumping may be the result of way too much lube? Managed a Goodyear Tire Center back in the late 70's. Have mounted some big tractor tires down to wheel barrow size. Lube helps on all tires.

Tire Lube Threads????????

To get the ball rolling toward a new thread?-I'm using "Formula 8" currently and it works great. Comes in a spray bottle & smells better than some aftershaves & sort of disappears after doing it's job-kinda like you know what... . Amazon bought as part of an order so no shipping added.
Maybe "that" would work?
What I meant as a bad choice for tire lube is a solvent that is unkind to rubber & in tire lube threads I've seen several mentioned as a favorite. As for Dynabeads, mine have never clumped(not that I crawled inside a tire either ) or seemed not to work as an out of balance sensation.

Dynabeads - My Experience - Not Convinced

I got new PR3's on my RT a month or so ago, using Dynabeads. The wheels were balanced before the tires were mounted. I immediately noticed a vibration that got slightly worse with speed. I have returned from a 2000 mile trip and intend to remove the beads as soon as reasonably possible.