Misfire / Stall in Rain - both F650GS & F800GS

A very interesting trip so far!

We left Florida with my wife riding her 09 F650GS Twin, all was well until we drove into rain in Tennessee, within minutes her 650 seemed to be only firing on 1 cylinder, a few minutes later it cut out completely. She coasted to the hard shoulder and to my amazement she was able to restart it immediately, still in pouring rain.

A couple of miles later it started again, firing on 1, then stalling, then restarting OK. This repeated about 10 times. The sun came out and the bike ran without a problem for the rest of the way to Michigan.

For a variety of reasons my wife decided to trade the 650 for an F800GS. We drove 1000 miles into the Canadian Rockies without an issue until it rained. The F800GS had the exact same problem as the F650GS, firing on 1, stalling, and then restarting until the rain stopped and then the problem went away. This time I was riding behind my wife and (I think) the rear light went out completely when it stalled, but I'm not 100% sure.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem may be?????? Help would be much appreciated, the 3000 miles back home are going to be very interesting if we can't ride in the rain.

Roger

Although I haven't ridden my F650 in the rain yet, I've heard others attribute the stalling to water entering the air intake, soaking the air filter and, in some cases, turning the dust and dirt trapped in the air filter into mud that prevents air from getting through. You might take a look at F800riders.org and do a search for stalling.

Thanks Dan, that looks like the problem we have. Not good at all.

Now, if I can just find a work around that will get us home...........

RogerA said:

Thanks Dan, that looks like the problem we have. Not good at all.

Now, if I can just find a work around that will get us home...........

Click to expand...

That is the problem. BMW is working on a fix.

Maybe related

I'm not sure this is related, but...
Some of the new Triumph Bonnevilles are doing this. Sputtering, stalling and finally coasting to the side of the road, engine dead. They have isolated the problem to a hose/vent on the gas tank. Evidently, the hose takes in water, during a rain shower, then the fuel breather/filter gets water logged. This puts the fuel tank under vacuum while riding. Many troubled riders are able to restart the bike by opening the fuel filler cap, thus allowing the tank pressure to equalize. Immediately they can restart the bike.

Some have suggested that trimming the vent/hose w/ a diagonal cut can reduce the problem. Others have suggested placing a small filter at the hose intake. A hose re-route may also be a quick fix. At this moment, it is still being resolved as to cause and cure. It would seem the filter idea would only serve to move the problem to the added filter.

Len

In the case of the BMWs, I think the cause has been determined (water into the intake) and they are working on how to fix it.

Is this all the F800s, or just the GS?

I've only heard about the GS

My wife has an 09 650GS and has had the stalling in the rain problem. We have been on several trips and ridden in the rain and it would stall when she slowed down; usually it just ran rough as long as she kept going. On a 130 mile stretch where it really rained hard it died and restarted 8 times. Anyway, the dealer has been as helpful as can be expected; at first they put some snorkels on the air cleaner pipes so that they were pointed backwards; that didn't help. This last time they put an extended hose in the bottom of the airbox and also some net looking things over the output hoses that BMW supplied as a fix. We haven't ridden in much rain yet. The other morning she rode 7 miles to work and it was fine so we will see. When we have ridden in the rain and stopped the water runs out the bottom hose and it looks like the bike is peeing; we understand that hose comes from the charcoal cannister circuit. Good luck!!

Had the same problem - stalling in the rain but in a stroke of luck my F650GS twin sputtered, quit and then restarted just as I was pulling into the BMW dealer for the 600 mile service. The dealer claimed it was a mapping issue.

Have not had the problem since BUT have not been out riding in the rain with this bike either.

My K75RT looks better all the time.

Here's a link to the posting on F800riders.org: http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25304. If you do a search you'll find other threads with some possible jury-rigged solutions.

This is getting rediculous.

I made some flaps to block the intakes, but it made no difference at all.

We were in near Banff yesterday, in the rain, and my wife's bike (F800GS) was coughing and spluttering a bit, but it smoothed out until she pulled off onto an uphill exit ramp. The motor instantly stalled and on the slick road the back wheel started to slide before she pulled in the clutch.

The net result was that she was dumped on the road, on an off ramp, in the rain and low vis conditions. This is a really dangerous problem!!

She is now scared of ridng the bike in the rain, and does not want to ride my R1200GSA (too tall for her).

We will be pulling over any time it rains. It's going to be a REALLY long trip getting back to Florida.

The GS in F800GS stands for GOOD only in SUNSHINE - at least for for wife's F650GS and now the F800GS

I am kicking myself for not doing more reseach before my wife bought the F650GS and then changed to the F800GS.

Roger

Question about the stalling. Is it only in heavy rain or does it also do it in moderate rain. Does splashing from standing water in the road seem to affect it?

The reason I'm asking is I bought a new F650GS a week ago. The first 300 miles riding the bike was in the rain. I live in Oregon so I figured I would break it in in the rain. The rain was only moderate with a few showers that I would consider to be hard rain. I didn't have any stalling or running on one cylinder symtoms. Most of the roads where back roads with a lot of standing water in places. (about an inch).

I hadn't heard about this problem before. But at least now if I'm riding in hard rain and it starts sputtering I will have an idea whats going on. Thanks for posting.

Ridealot said:

Question about the stalling. Is it only in heavy rain or does it also do it in moderate rain. Does splashing from standing water in the road seem to affect it?

Click to expand...

The first time it occured it was heavy rain, the last few times I was say the rain was moderate. I think the intensity of the rain affects the time it takes for the first stall to occur, it seems to occur every 3-6 miles after that regardless.

very light rain does not seem to casue a problem.

My wife called BMW Customer service today, she spoke to "Richard".

She explained what happened on both her F650GS and F800GS,
she explained that the stalling problem had left her sitting in the road on an exit ramp,
she explained that for the first time in many years she was afraid to ride her bike in the rain, and
she explained that there several pages on f800riders.org forum detailing this problem, including several owners who have stated that they have reported it to BMW.

Richard said he would check and call her back, when he did he stated that "they have not heard of this problem".

Very reassuring

Stalling In The Rain - the problem is real.

F800riders.org - over 4,000 hits on this topic.
121 responses.

ADVrider.com - over 12,000 hits on this topic.
188 responses.

I didn't want to be a long way from home when it rained and have no experience with a new bike and riding in the rain. When the clouds rolled in the other day I went for a ride. I knew I was going to get wet. I wore my rain suit and put my cell phone and wallet in a ziploc bag.

It poured. I was doing great - no problems with visibility and the bike handled great. I was actually enjoying the "adventure" of it all until the bike stalled. I pulled the clutch in to carefully roll through a long right hand curve in the road and before I could downshift the engine died and the tach went to zero at 45mph. I didn't downshift. When I let the clutch out the engine compression was enough to cause a wild skid into oncoming traffic with uncontrollable head shake and a painful tankslapper. I got things back under control and rolled to the side of the road. A Thank You goes to the nice lady in the Toyota SUV who moved over far enough in her lane so as NOT to run me over.

I was shocked. Shaken badly, but the bike restarted and I sputtered home with much loss of power and an engine that was misfiring badly.

I called BMW NA and they said there was "no know problem" associated with the event I experienced and I was to see my dealer immediately.

The service check at the dealer was uneventful. Nothing was wrong and the diagnostic computer revealed no "codes". I was sent on my way after 3 hours of pacing the showroom.

The next day I left for a much needed three day tour with some friends who were thinking of letting me join in their trip to Canada later this year. As we left it started to rain and my bike began to run rough. When I saw a parking lot I pulled in the clutch, the engine died and I safely rolled to a stop. My brand new "go anywhere" "do anything" combat touring bike was dead in the water.

The group gathered 'round. I asked to drop out and they left for New England - I went to my dealer. When I pulled up the service guy saw who it was and waved me straight into an empty bay and they began working on my bike before I even had my helmet off. FIVE hours at the dealer this time and the problem could not be fixed. I was sent home with a demo bike and a promise I would not ride in the rain.

The airbox does not vent properly and the water backs up into the evap canister. The fuel tank can't breath right and the engine starves and dies. USA is the only market with the canister. There is no known repair for this problem. The service technician drained a lot of water OUT of the canister and the problem will be referred BACK to BMW NA. The quick fix is to remove the vacuum line from the canister to the air box. I am told that the complete fix will come in the future when the factory redesigns the entire system. At this time there is no permanent repair.

A little water in the airbox is not considered a hugh problem on most bikes. I guess it might even be common after a heavy rain - but in this case it drains DIRECTLY into the emissions system and that is where the problem is. Does your gas cap HISSSS when you crack the seal - the charcoal evap canister might be filled with water!

My dealer has been G R E A T to me - thanks Hermy's BMW, Port Clinton PA.
BMW NA has been G R E A T to me - thanks Krista!

I'm still really pissed. I feel like the village idiot. My friends asked me to drop out of the Canada Trip - my bike is too unreliable. The "Rider Magazine" bike of the year can't run in the rain. An Adventure Bike that can only be taken out on sunny days?
You have got to be kidding?

Brian

BMW of SE Michigan arranged for Kathy's F800GS to be checked by BMW of Denver.

Before we arrived in Denver Richard from BMW NA called twice to see how the bike was running.

We arrived in Denver on Wednesday.

Eli Myrick (Master Technician) inspected the bike and immediatly commented that the vent tube from the charcoal cannister was lower than he would have expected and very close to the rear wheel.

He sprayed water into both intakes with the engine running - no problem - no stall.

He then put the vent tube into a container of water and continued to run the motor - within 2 minutes the motor stalled. - the exact same period of time that the engine stalled after we ran into rain. The charcaol container was full of water.

He rerouted the vent tube away from the spray from the rear wheel.

Since that time we have run into light to moderate rain - NO STALL - we can't be sure the problem has gone away until we run into heavy rain, but so far it looks good.


I had pretty much given up on BMW Dealers, they didn't seem to have any concept of customer service. It's time to eat my words.

BMW of SE Michigan, Owen B, John (Owner), and the sales staff could not have been more friendly and helpful when we were there. They have called several times to see how we are doing,

BMW of Denver are from the same mold, Rick Zimmerman (Service manager), Joe Francis (Service Advisor), Eli Myrick (Master Technician), and Chris (Sales) were all customer service oriented, the service was exceptional. They have also followed up to see if the rerouted vent tube fixed the problem.

We have another 2 days to get back to Florida, as soon as we get heavy rain I'll post a defintive result.

Roger

Different Repair

I'm not sure why, but BMW NA suggested a different repair for my bike. The repairs were completed earlier this week, but I've only ridden in the sunshine!

The canister is disconnected from the airbox and I believe it vented DIRECTLY to a drain tube hanging down near the rear tire. I was told that the water source was from the airbox and that is why the vacuum line was taken OUT of the emissions loop.

You dealer seems to to have proven that the evap canister can take on water from another source.

I was also told that this "FIX" was defined by the regional service manager and BMW NA.

More speculation. More uncertainty. More questions.

We now have T W O different authorized repair methods for the same problem.

Brian

RogerA said:

We have another 2 days to get back to Florida, as soon as we get heavy rain I'll post a defintive result.

Roger

Click to expand...

WE HAVE A RESULT !!!

We went through VERY heavy rain today for about 45 minutes - NO STALLING - NO ROUGH RUNNING. the problem is fixed!!!

The following is a picture of the re-routed vent line. As you can see it comes across the bike and comes down by the kick stand switch.



Again, thank you to Eli and the staff at BMW Denver.

Roger

Roger,
Thanks for the post and especially the picture of the vent tube routing. BMW of SE MI is my local dealer, and we really couldn't ask for better. John Horner understands customer service, and everyone there delivers! Great place and I'm happy to hear you got the kind of service you deserve!