lkchris
Active member
Why yes. MOA has better things to do.
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- Thread starter dravnx
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Why yes. MOA has better things to do.
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
I have a dumb question about all this: How does this effect those who race motorcycles? I don't know much about racing but just saw a picture pop up here of a race and this question came to me. Will the BMW dealer show up to the track with their authorized technicians and act as a pit crew since the traditional crew isn't allowed to touch "their" motorcycles? Could this be the end of car and motorcycle racing, at least with newer vehicles? I know that they do have an "official" race team but there are races every weekend with many teams all over the world. The brands doing this are bowing out of motor sports? Our society and technology are changing much faster and in a direction not to my liking.
bigjohnsd
'21 R1250 GS Adv
Some of us do not agree with this statement.
I’m curious how many with this concern have reached out to BMW, either the US office or the German office, with a hand written letter/note of their concerns on this subject?
Social media postings have little effect and really don’t reach anyone that may effect a policy change.
OM
Social media postings have little effect and really don’t reach anyone that may effect a policy change.
OM
52184
GTRider
Well, they don’t really seem to be interested in any contact via mail—only voice and email options are listed on the BMW Motorrad Contact Page:
“<I>Since the first one rolled out back in 1923 we have been building motorcycles for real riders. You, with your love of the ride and high standards for performance, have driven us to keep innovating, keep refining, keep improving. So if you have something to say, good or bad, we want to hear it.
Call our Customer Service Department at 1-800-831-1117 and follow the automated voice prompts. There is a live representative between the hours of 9:00AM - 9:00PM EST Monday-Thursday, and 9:00AM - 6:00PM EST Fridays. If someone's not there to take your call, you can wait and the automated voice will prompt you to leave a message.
You may also reach our Customer Service Department by sending email to CustomerService@bmwmotorcycles.com.
We will get back to you as soon as possible</I>.”
Best,
DeVern
“<I>Since the first one rolled out back in 1923 we have been building motorcycles for real riders. You, with your love of the ride and high standards for performance, have driven us to keep innovating, keep refining, keep improving. So if you have something to say, good or bad, we want to hear it.
Call our Customer Service Department at 1-800-831-1117 and follow the automated voice prompts. There is a live representative between the hours of 9:00AM - 9:00PM EST Monday-Thursday, and 9:00AM - 6:00PM EST Fridays. If someone's not there to take your call, you can wait and the automated voice will prompt you to leave a message.
You may also reach our Customer Service Department by sending email to CustomerService@bmwmotorcycles.com.
We will get back to you as soon as possible</I>.”
Best,
DeVern
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
Social media postings have little effect and really don’t reach anyone that may effect a policy change.
OM
In 2019 social media posting caused BMW to reverse its controversial decision to start charging an annual fee for using Apple Carplay.
My objective in posting on this forum is to express my continuing view that when it comes to policy and practice decisions by BMW that negatively impact BMW motorcycle owners the MOA should be putting aside its obligations to support BMW public relations and put the interests of its members first by acting as our collective voice.
That was for vehicles as I recall. I’ll bet it’s a larger segment of sales therefore a larger audience with more influence.
If BMW doesn’t frequent this social media platform, it’s just noise.
Someone is going to bootleg a copy and put it on the internet and things will return to somewhat normal. I’m not much for pirated copies but if there is a demand, it will happen.
The only thing that might lag is a Haynes manual to help interpret the BMW information.
OM
BMW of North America, LLC
Address: 300 Chestnut Ridge Rd, Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07677
BMW Headquarters
Address: BMW Headquarters, Petuelring 130, 80809 München, Germany
No idea on the postage deal to Germany.
OM
Hand Written Notes
52184
GTRider
My understanding has been that the pullback of service information was global, not just the US or North America. I don’t expect that input given to BMWNA would get upchanneled to the mothership, nor that it would have a lot of impact with the mothership given the relatively small size of the North American market.
Best,
DeVern
Best,
DeVern
My take as well. We are a small market regardless of size of an owners group. The forum represents a small fraction of that membership.
Having German heritage in my DNA, working with German Nationals as co-workers and an engineer neighbor with dual citizenship, the old saying of “You can tell a German , you just can’t tell them much” seriously applies. As mentioned many times by a member from NM, Germans don’t buy into home repair and they don’t have Pep Boys in the neighborhood.
Contrary to the constant soap box posts, most of us here are adult men and women and don’t need self appointed saber rattlers speaking in our (my) behalf. We understand the issue and the effort that has been taken through the years. If one forgets the logo trademark issues several years back, a German owned conglomerate such as BMW isn’t going to change plans or decisions. Assumptions by some that nothing has been done, asked, and replied to is just that. You truly have no clue nor do I. I do know this has been discussed here by current and former club officers enough to satisfy my questions.
At some point, someone will pirate the info as mentioned and/or the manual publishers will catch up. The current option they have offered is what we have. Remember BMW/AG would prefer a dealer work on your motor and don’t see that changing. We too have choices and mine currently are to maintain the year models I do own and have tech info for, sorry many cannot.
bigjohnsd
'21 R1250 GS Adv
E-Bay is your friend - Just sayin'.....
lkchris
Active member
Better written ... thinks they have better things to do!
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
"That was for vehicles as I recall. I’ll bet it’s a larger segment of sales therefore a larger audience with more influence."
Exactly why the MOA should be involved.
"Someone is going to bootleg a copy and put it on the internet and things will return to somewhat normal."
Copy of what? There is no RepROM for the new models as they come out.
"My understanding has been that the pullback of service information was global, not just the US or North America. I don’t expect that input given to BMWNA would get upchanneled to the mothership, nor that it would have a lot of impact with the mothership given the relatively small size of the North American market."
Exactly why the MOA should show some leadership both in the home market and with the other BMW umbrella clubs participating in the BMW Clubs International Council.
"At some point, someone will pirate the info as mentioned and/or the manual publishers will catch up."
It hasn't happened with the BMW cars so there is no reason to believe that it will happen with the motorcycles. This is a false hope.
Exactly why the MOA should be involved.
"Someone is going to bootleg a copy and put it on the internet and things will return to somewhat normal."
Copy of what? There is no RepROM for the new models as they come out.
"My understanding has been that the pullback of service information was global, not just the US or North America. I don’t expect that input given to BMWNA would get upchanneled to the mothership, nor that it would have a lot of impact with the mothership given the relatively small size of the North American market."
Exactly why the MOA should show some leadership both in the home market and with the other BMW umbrella clubs participating in the BMW Clubs International Council.
"At some point, someone will pirate the info as mentioned and/or the manual publishers will catch up."
It hasn't happened with the BMW cars so there is no reason to believe that it will happen with the motorcycles. This is a false hope.
rangerreece
RangerReece
My most recent purchase of a new BMW was in 2018 for a R1200 RT. I obtained the service documentation on a disk and the contents were installed on a laptop kept in the garage.
I was interested in a Triumph Tiger 900 and I told the dealer that I would not buy a bike unless the service manual was available. Triumph had discontinued selling a paper service manual a few years earlier. Fortunately in mid-2021 the Triumph service manual was available on-line and one could purchase access in chunks as small as one hour (about $7 or $8 US). Someone had written a program that integrated with certain browsers that would allow for the downloading of the entire manual for a particular bike and creation of a pdf file. I chose to do this before purchasing the 2022 Tiger 900. Subsequently Triumph has gone to a different presentation method for the service information that precludes downloading. One must either be online or go through a cumbersome screen-capture process. I let the Triumph dealer know that I would not be buying any new Triumphs until I could again get a set of service documents. At least Triumph only charges something around $9 per month for online access - I have gone this route to obtain the updates, saved via the cumbersome screen capture process.
I was interested in the new Ducati Desert-X. Alas, Ducati also does not make available a service manual. I let the Ducati dealer know that I would not be buying a new Ducati. Similarly, I let the local BMW dealer (same guy as Ducati dealer!) know that no service manual or document means no sale to me.
That is my feedback into the motorcycle universe.
As a side note - when the new oilhead bikes came out in late 1993; the first model was the R1100RS, I bought a nice red R1100RS (still have it). There was no service info available. Someone obtained a copy of the notes made available to various BMW techs and sent paper copies around to interested owners. I still have these notes along with many handwritten notes in a 3-ring binder.
In the early days of the more widely available internet (early 1990s), the Internet BMW Riders (IBMWR) was formed. The "organization" officers had to be named. It was decided that everyone in IBMWR would be "president". A website was created and interested parties could contribute tips and service hints. There have been electronic compilations of these tips. See - IBMWR.org
Nowadays, we have electronic manuals in pdf or other forms. I miss being able to write and keep handwritten notes. But on the plus side we have folks (like BoxFlyer) producing excellent videos illustrating various service procedures. In many ways these videos are the next best thing to having a "guru" in the garage providing advice and lending a hand. These videos are accessible on YouTube. I think that the BMWMOA could make a list of links to these videos as a service to the owners.
I was interested in a Triumph Tiger 900 and I told the dealer that I would not buy a bike unless the service manual was available. Triumph had discontinued selling a paper service manual a few years earlier. Fortunately in mid-2021 the Triumph service manual was available on-line and one could purchase access in chunks as small as one hour (about $7 or $8 US). Someone had written a program that integrated with certain browsers that would allow for the downloading of the entire manual for a particular bike and creation of a pdf file. I chose to do this before purchasing the 2022 Tiger 900. Subsequently Triumph has gone to a different presentation method for the service information that precludes downloading. One must either be online or go through a cumbersome screen-capture process. I let the Triumph dealer know that I would not be buying any new Triumphs until I could again get a set of service documents. At least Triumph only charges something around $9 per month for online access - I have gone this route to obtain the updates, saved via the cumbersome screen capture process.
I was interested in the new Ducati Desert-X. Alas, Ducati also does not make available a service manual. I let the Ducati dealer know that I would not be buying a new Ducati. Similarly, I let the local BMW dealer (same guy as Ducati dealer!) know that no service manual or document means no sale to me.
That is my feedback into the motorcycle universe.
As a side note - when the new oilhead bikes came out in late 1993; the first model was the R1100RS, I bought a nice red R1100RS (still have it). There was no service info available. Someone obtained a copy of the notes made available to various BMW techs and sent paper copies around to interested owners. I still have these notes along with many handwritten notes in a 3-ring binder.
In the early days of the more widely available internet (early 1990s), the Internet BMW Riders (IBMWR) was formed. The "organization" officers had to be named. It was decided that everyone in IBMWR would be "president". A website was created and interested parties could contribute tips and service hints. There have been electronic compilations of these tips. See - IBMWR.org
Nowadays, we have electronic manuals in pdf or other forms. I miss being able to write and keep handwritten notes. But on the plus side we have folks (like BoxFlyer) producing excellent videos illustrating various service procedures. In many ways these videos are the next best thing to having a "guru" in the garage providing advice and lending a hand. These videos are accessible on YouTube. I think that the BMWMOA could make a list of links to these videos as a service to the owners.
Great lucid and reasonable post.
I don't think that the MOA in its operation, beyond keeping the forum running, can keep track of all the maintenance information. Forum Members can keep supplying that and while "nobody reads stickies" holds true, there are some good ones on important bike related topics.
Such as-
Kurt's Links and References section- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?76-Links-and-References
Wethead Accessories, Mods and DIY's- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?70623-Wetheads-Accessories-Mods-and-DIY-s
K-bikes DIY-Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?54-K-bikes-DIY-Tech-Library
Hexheads/Camheads DIY/Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?44-Hexheads-Camheads-DIY-Tech-Library
There are many others as well, even spread through the Best of Forum section-
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?58-Best-of-the-Forum
How about as a community of riders that have chosen to ride BMW's, we dial back the complaining and be more helpful to one another so these ever increasing in importance maintenance, tips and helpful organized information can remain easily accessed by members.............
OM
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
Now that's really funny. Milton Friedman totally rejected Corporate Social Responsibility and BMW boasts of its many CSR efforts and accomplishments. Oh the irony! Oh the hypocrisy!
https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/rosslyn/en/responsibility.html
bigjohnsd
'21 R1250 GS Adv
I have a PDF copy of the manual for my '21 GSA. They are out there. Ebay is your friend.
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