ADVrider sold?

[Omega Man]

I ran across this thread on the TW200 Forum-

https://www.tw200forum.com/threads/...m=email&utm_campaign=ed296&utm_content=iss199

Not sure what the deal is …… I haven’t been to ADV in awhile.

OM

 

[basketcase]

Gotta admit, AdvRider is a one of a kind site. It has family friendly places, and some others I am unable to accurately describe. Just don't wade into Jo Momma without your (mental and emotional) rubber boots on, eh?

According to the opening pages of the announcement, nothing much will change - it's more of a technical upgrade. Probably long overdue considering the volume of data on the server, and the amount of bandwidth the site requires to operate.

 

[skibum69]

This is the thread where it was announced. It's been a nonstop freight train on there ever since. They have been sold to VerticalScope which owns many forums. Most of the concern is that ADV will go downhill and maybe even fade away as many of that owners other sites are said to have done.
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/a-new-operator-of-advrider.1534813/

Yes one of a kind site that I am on every day and have made many friends there.

 

[adamchandler]

Vertical Scope is a publicly traded company out of Toronto. Market cap around 500 million. Here are their most recent quarterly results - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/verticalscope-announces-third-quarter-2021-132600256.html

75% of their income is advertising and they own roughly 250 properties (forums).

They've also considered 1 year ago merging all of their power sports forums into one - https://www.r3-forums.com/threads/advocates-for-the-vertical-scope-powersports-network.148167/

This is what companies do, they acquire, them streamline by merging similar things into one. At the moment, they're just a very large aggregator. it's like an advertising network. I can't convince Kraft foods to advertise on my blog that has 500 visitors a day but if I team up with 250 other blogs, we now have 1 million views per day and can spread our views that way and it attracts larger advertisers. By owning 75% of power sports discussions that aren't on Facebook, they basically own that entire block of advertising making it more appealing to BMW and Triumph.

There's this scathing review from 2 years ago - https://www.reddit.com/r/4x4/comments/hw1p3a/vertical_scope_forum_killers/

-----

Forums aren't easy. They take work, active moderation, rules and enforcement of rules and they do take vision. moderators need to see where the puck is going (like when the KTM 790 came out and ADVRider made a forum for that bike peeling it back from the SAR xx90 models). These are important adaptations to make.

It's important to remember the past here. Baldy, the founder is very wealthy making a lot of money in Silicon Valley. He could float ADVrider as a hobby and then did try to monetize it and passed the torch on to the most passionate volunteers. Did they buy it from him? I don't think so, he just stepped away from day to day operations 2-3 years ago. ADVrider at that time added a YouTube, Instagram and front page with news and added a way for members to pay to support the site. 24 months of that go and here we are.

ADVRider has costs. Forums with images and millions of posts a year aren't free to run. Vertical Scope offered them enough money to sell it. It's entirely possible (and I'm just spitballing here) that ADVRider cost about $10-$15K a month to run and was bringing in just that or just under.

----

It's a great community that if left untouched, will survive many years from now. If Vertical Scope changes the codebase to match their's, starts deleting non-PC content and the sub-forums for people who want to talk politics and other "advertiser unfriendly topics" then it'll be fine but some of the most prolific users will leave. To where? I don't know but most likely to Facebook.

I've been approached now by 2 people who want to start a new ADVRider. I have told them both the same thing. ADVRider took 20 years to build. Do you have 20 years to lose money on something you care about while your biggest enemy is the largest social network in the world that lives in everyone's pockets 24/7 with notifications and their entire social circle? A social network with every brand, product, review, topic and interest?

Good luck.

Until Facebook gets broken up by the Feds, no social forum is safe.


Look at the daily posts on the MOA forums versus Facebook's MOA group? I rest my case.

(Note, I don't have a Facebook account so I can't look it up for myself).

 

[Visian]

Look at the daily posts on the MOA forums versus Facebook's MOA group? I rest my case.

(Note, I don't have a Facebook account so I can't look it up for myself).

Is it possible for people who do have access to the FB group to give us that information? I would really like to know that. I can't even get a rough estimate because I left the FB group, could not take all the Karens... sometimes it is rather cringeworthy. And yes, I was among the FB group's first moderators.*

(Note: I was am iinmate #365 at ADVrider, and had deep insight to its construction... beta tester. I am also currently a $60/year supporter. Adam, it's good to know that someone on our BoD has good insight to the ADVrider experience, too. Back then it fomented one of the most powerful community-driven movements the Internets have ever seen. Before ADVrider, the GS List serve from Micapeak was the place to be. There was a mass exodus from there to ADVrider when politics were allowed to creep into the GS List... but the php technology that allowed threaded discussions with hotlinked photos proved to be the killer app, one exceptionally appealing to younger, more tech-savvy riders across all brands and riding style spectrum. That, and exhibitionism (and narcism) are things. I've seen a lot of things happen on the Internet, but the sheer force of the ADVrider community went beyond plaid. When ADVrider started, I was the MOA's webmaster and I worked to sneak this forum in under the radar as a "Rally Bulletin Board," with the $500 cost of vBulletin charged to the Rally account by Ray Zimmerman. Trust me, we didn't have much tech knowledge within MOA's leadership at that time, also there was pretty virulent resistance to the ideas involving member-driven forums and publishing timely content. So I installed the Forum, "Ian" was member #1 and made it part of my webmaster presentation to the October 2002 Board meeting. My presentation covered the development plans for our web site (requesting money to buy an SSL Certificate was the top of the list), the concept of remote collaboration to produce club deliverables (e.g. BMW ON, managing our web site and rally) and storing assets centrally for remote access via the then-emerging cloud, and to position the Forum as a tool for volunteers to use in delivering news, other club information and community in the way of ADVrider. Also presented was a Sony-Ericsson P910a, one of the very first smartphones... and saying "we really need a mobile app.")

This forum has been through a lot in 19 years, and most of it has been guided by other people... mostly volunteers. But, if you notice, my username is now "Visian"... and there is a story behind that which will remain untold. "Ian" is now a guest.

I hope we take some steps that I have been bitching about in other threads to preserve the Forum as a key part of the MOA experience. It's not news to me that bitching makes some people think you're an a$$hole, but I don't care, I feel this place is very important and it's not being shown enough love.

Maybe we should sell it to VerticalScope?

Ian


* want to credit good buddy Stephen Burns, Burnszilla, for establishing the MOA's FB group and to Vince Winkel (MOA Media Editor) for having the good sense to keep it member-managed.

 

[adamchandler]

Is it possible for people who do have access to the FB group to give us that information? I would really like to know that. I can't even get a rough estimate because I left the FB group, could not take all the Karens... sometimes it is rather cringeworthy. And yes, I was among the FB group's first moderators.

(Note: I was am member #365 at ADVrider, and had deep insight to its construction... beta tester. I am also currently a $60/year supporter. Adam, it's good to know that someone on our BoD has good insight to the ADVrider experience, too. Back then it fomented one of the most powerful community-driven movements the Internets have ever seen. Before ADVrider, the GS List serve from Micapeak was the place to be. There was a mass exodus from there to ADVrider when politics were allowed to creep into the GS List... but the php technology that allowed threaded discussions with hotlinked photos proved to be the killer app, one exceptional appealing to younger, more tech-savvy riders across all brands and riding style spectrum. That, and exhibitionism (and narcism) are things. I've seen a lot of things happen on the Internet, but the sheer force of the ADVrider community went beyond plaid. When ADVrider started, I was the MOA's webmaster and I worked to sneak this forum in under the radar as a "Rally Bulletin Board," with the $500 cost of vBulletin charged to the Rally account by Ray Zimmerman. Trust me, we didn't have much tech knowledge within MOA's leadership at that time, also there was pretty virulent resistance to the ideas involving member-driven forums and publishing timely content. So I installed the Forum, "Ian" was member #1 and made it part of my webmaster presentation to the October 2002 Board meeting. My presentation covered the development plans for our web site (requesting money to buy an SSL Certificate was the top of the list), the concept of remote collaboration to produce club deliverables (e.g. BMW ON, managing our web site and storing assets centrally for remote access) via the then-emerging cloud, and to position the Forum as a tool for volunteers to use in delivering news, other club information and community in the way of ADVrider. Also presented was a Sony-Ericsson P910a, one of the very first smartphones... and saying "we really need a mobile app.")

This forum has been through a lot in 19 years, and most of it has been guided by other people... mostly volunteers. But, if you notice, my username is now "Visian"... and there is a story behind that which will remain untold. "Ian" is now a guest.

I hope we take some steps that I have been bitching about in other threads to preserve the Forum as a key part of the MOA experience. It's not news to me that bitching makes some people think you're an a$$hole, but I don't care, I feel this place is very important and it's not being shown enough love.

Maybe we should sell it to VerticalScope?

Ian

I wish we had a 'like' feature here as I just wanted to like and acknowledge but not take us off topic All good points. Thanks for some history I wasn't aware of regarding the MOA Forum. I'm not saying the MOA Forum is dead or that forums are dead...just that the force that is Facebook is something any entrepreneur looking to create a community of like-minded folks will need to combat Facebook. How many K75 buyers that are Gen-Zers don't know MotoBrick exist and just join a community on Facebook? Probably nearly 100% of them. Groups have attrition and if younger people know of a community only via Facebook, they'll never enjoy the full experience. I joined Facebook and Twitter in 2006. I think I was user 10,000 and something on Twitter. I quit both in 2011. I had my reasons and they might surprise most but that's for another topic

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

While ADVrider is indeed a one of a kind site, I often wish that the great parts of it would rub off on us here. I mean the ride reports are stellar, for the most part, and the technical know how on a variety of bikes and other things is second to none. That is what attracted me to ADV in the first place. I know that it is impossible to compare the MOA to ADV for a variety of reasons but perhaps the club can take some of the good part in consideration for this forum.
I have heard some people say that we are a bit of a snooze fest here....

Yes, Jo Momma takes getting used too , but not all is bad there either. The sub basement of CSM however is another story.

Just my ramblings YMMV etc

 

[20774]

... but perhaps the club can take some of the good part in consideration for this forum.

Other than the things you mentioned...which have been tried and have gone down in flames (not trying to revive those discussions!!)...what other things about ADV did you like and might like to see here? We have Ride Reports...we have talented BMW owners/wrenches. Maybe more of them could write about their experiences? Granted ADV had forum sections for other bikes/manufacturers...certainly that isn't something that makes sense for the MOA forum. Some idea of what you felt were the "good parts" of ADV would be helpful.

 

[lee]

Other than the things you mentioned...which have been tried and have gone down in flames (not trying to revive those discussions!!)...what other things about ADV did you like and might like to see here? .

I would like to see a Like or Thank You button. I think it's a handy tool and helps to reduce clutter.

 

[20774]

. Not sure that's available in the standard vBulletin. I think there are "hacks" that fan be used but I think we're not likely to "color outside the lines"...security and support concerns. But I can reconfirm that.

 

[adamchandler]

Just sharing that ADVRider (and many larger forums) are using XenForo - https://xenforo.com/purchase/

Which runs about $50 a year. It's $100 a year if you want all of the features and $650 the first year. It's not cheap to start a new forum from scratch (as many here know)

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

Other than the things you mentioned...which have been tried and have gone down in flames (not trying to revive those discussions!!)...what other things about ADV did you like and might like to see here? We have Ride Reports...we have talented BMW owners/wrenches. Maybe more of them could write about their experiences? Granted ADV had forum sections for other bikes/manufacturers...certainly that isn't something that makes sense for the MOA forum. Some idea of what you felt were the "good parts" of ADV would be helpful.

Things could be divided up better like the regional forums, too many states clumped together. Why was the Dakar rally put in 'The great Outdoors' and not in a separate rally/ racing section. Same goes for camping and equipment many people post good deals there for online purchases etc. There is a section for GPS and trip planning etc...
Check out ADV and see what I mean.

 

[lee]

. Not sure that's available in the standard vBulletin. I think there are "hacks" that fan be used but I think we're not likely to "color outside the lines"...security and support concerns. But I can reconfirm that.

You didn't say you were looking for something easy

 

[20774]

IMO having too many subforums gets to be a bit much. I've seen ADV...maybe that's why I don't visit much.

 

[Visian]

Other than the things you mentioned...which have been tried and have gone down in flames (not trying to revive those discussions!!)...what other things about ADV did you like and might like to see here?

Less whitey-tighty would be a good start!

Seriously, this is something I've put a lot of thought into, it's the ADVrider vibe we're weak in. Yes, we have decent camaraderie here (it used to be a lot better... look at threads from 10-12 years ago) but when it comes down to it, people pay $60/year to belong to the MOA, which includes the Forum. For that, the people here expect a different level of decorum, and I am betting you know what I am talking about, Kurt.

Below is what I would like to see, the technical information that's in the forum plus a lot of other information that's been created over the years by people like Oak, Snowbum, Craig Vechoric, Tom Cutter, Matt Parkhouse, Paul Glaves and other legendary names, in our own Hall of Wisdom. I don't know whether a Wiki or a Forum production environment would be better, but I do know that this Forum could be used, by setting the backend permissions appropriately to support editor teams and other needs, to develop structured technical information that you don't have to be a tag genius to find.

Theoretically this is in development, it would be interesting to hear more about this project.

Ian

 

[Visian]

Another suggestion

Notice the "Ride Safe" menu item in the screen capture from BMWownersnews.com .....

We could channel the expertise we have in this organization to create a series of basic safety videos. To make them with quality suitable to the MOA brand, perhaps we could pay for some professional production support with MOAF raffle money.

(fwiw, a dark forum here could be a very good collaborative work environment to do the pre-production required for storyboards, shot plans, scripts, etc.)

 

[henzilla]

Things could be divided up better like the regional forums, too many states clumped together. Why was the Dakar rally put in 'The great Outdoors' and not in a separate rally/ racing section. Same goes for camping and equipment many people post good deals there for online purchases etc. There is a section for GPS and trip planning etc...
Check out ADV and see what I mean.

I often wondered how the regionals got set,seems they were adjusted at some point, maybe not more but perhaps set up as they are split for the Rally Zones? Then add the Canadian and Baja regions as well as Hawaii to line up better with those zones? I always have to search for a few states/ provinces with current layout

I think the Camping thread was “stickied” to remain at top of page and see how much interest there was. Gear was the sub forum for, well, Gear. Could have a camping and another motorcycle gear related “sticky”

I agree with Kurt on not expanding too much if possible. Not opposed to some tweaks for sure.

 

[Omega Man]

Why was the Dakar rally put in 'The great Outdoors' and not in a separate rally/ racing section?

The hope is that members will go to-
Quick links>

Today’s posts>

And then peruse all the recent posts. Chances are there are posts of interest that have been overlooked.

Placing the Dakar thread is currently the best spot for that thread. Perhaps a visit to The Great Outdoors section will bring a member to explore more of the threads in that section.
OM

 

[kbasa]

Is it possible for people who do have access to the FB group to give us that information? I would really like to know that. I can't even get a rough estimate because I left the FB group, could not take all the Karens... sometimes it is rather cringeworthy. And yes, I was among the FB group's first moderators.*

(Note: I was am iinmate #365 at ADVrider, and had deep insight to its construction... beta tester. I am also currently a $60/year supporter. Adam, it's good to know that someone on our BoD has good insight to the ADVrider experience, too. Back then it fomented one of the most powerful community-driven movements the Internets have ever seen. Before ADVrider, the GS List serve from Micapeak was the place to be. There was a mass exodus from there to ADVrider when politics were allowed to creep into the GS List... but the php technology that allowed threaded discussions with hotlinked photos proved to be the killer app, one exceptionally appealing to younger, more tech-savvy riders across all brands and riding style spectrum. That, and exhibitionism (and narcism) are things. I've seen a lot of things happen on the Internet, but the sheer force of the ADVrider community went beyond plaid. When ADVrider started, I was the MOA's webmaster and I worked to sneak this forum in under the radar as a "Rally Bulletin Board," with the $500 cost of vBulletin charged to the Rally account by Ray Zimmerman. Trust me, we didn't have much tech knowledge within MOA's leadership at that time, also there was pretty virulent resistance to the ideas involving member-driven forums and publishing timely content. So I installed the Forum, "Ian" was member #1 and made it part of my webmaster presentation to the October 2002 Board meeting. My presentation covered the development plans for our web site (requesting money to buy an SSL Certificate was the top of the list), the concept of remote collaboration to produce club deliverables (e.g. BMW ON, managing our web site and rally) and storing assets centrally for remote access via the then-emerging cloud, and to position the Forum as a tool for volunteers to use in delivering news, other club information and community in the way of ADVrider. Also presented was a Sony-Ericsson P910a, one of the very first smartphones... and saying "we really need a mobile app.")

This forum has been through a lot in 19 years, and most of it has been guided by other people... mostly volunteers. But, if you notice, my username is now "Visian"... and there is a story behind that which will remain untold. "Ian" is now a guest.

I hope we take some steps that I have been bitching about in other threads to preserve the Forum as a key part of the MOA experience. It's not news to me that bitching makes some people think you're an a$$hole, but I don't care, I feel this place is very important and it's not being shown enough love.

Maybe we should sell it to VerticalScope?

Ian


* want to credit good buddy Stephen Burns, Burnszilla, for establishing the MOA's FB group and to Vince Winkel (MOA Media Editor) for having the good sense to keep it member-managed.

*cough*

You're welcome for all the moderation across both platforms, I guess.

Also, after 17 years of moderating at ADV, I turned my keys in this week. No way I'm doing volunteer work for a profit making venture like VS.

 

[Omega Man]

Let’s not get too deep into comparisons between the MOA forum and ADV. The MOA forum is part the benefits package derived from members paying dues.
ADV is a free platform, although as of late soliciting support, like FB. I always wonder how many would belong to FB……..or would choose to be, if there was some sort of membership dues…
OM