Need Help '07 R1200RT - cutting out

[JPiccolo]

Out for a ride today 07 RT, for about a week now off & on I was getting Brake Failure light that was hit or miss..... today first leg about 25 miles...second leg did'nt last long bike shut down after 15 miles started pushing after 15 minutes or so it started again headed for home made it....checked out bike all looked good....restarted no problem short ride maybe two miles bike shut down again..... never restarted......I think it might be coils any thoughts?

 

[deilenberger]

I'm adding the year and model of your bike to your thread. Please read: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?46055 - and please do this yourself in future posts to the tech forums. It helps people spot threads they may be able to help with, or to find the info in a thread at a later time. I also added what I think you're asking about since that might encourage someone to open the thread. In general - the better the question you post the better the answers will be.

As to your problems - it isn't clear to me what you're describing. It appears to be two problems - one with the brake system and one with the engine.

It might have a common root - how old is your battery? If it's more than 2 years old, find a shop with a load tester and have them check the condition. A bad battery can cause the engine to stop.

I doubt VERY much if it's "coils" since each cylinder has two coils, and each cylinder is capable of running with one of them disabled (doesn't run as well - but it will fire the cylinder.)

 

[Ken F]

did it sputter any, or just die?
I'd listen/check and make sure your fuel pump is working when you hit the start button. It should cycle for 1.5 seconds when you hit the button.
If you can catch it when it won't start, pull the fuel line and see if you are getting fuel if you can't tell by listening. A clogged fuel filter sounds likely.
If it turns out to be the fuel pump, there are several aftermarket ones from Ford & Chrysler that work just fine for about $40

Possibly coils, if you are electrically inclined, there are lots of posts about how to check the coils with an ohm meter. Typically they quit when they get hot (from expansion).
Did you check to see if you were getting spark when it was dead??

Hall sensors are a known problem on these bikes. The wiring from the hall sensors was not up to withstanding the heat of the engine (where they are located is a very hot part of the engine), and over time the insulation gets brittle and shorts, typically in rain. The sensors themselves will often quit from the heat of the engine too, and sometimes work again once cooled.

That will give you some things to diagnose....

Ken

 

[deilenberger]

Hall sensors are a known problem on these bikes. The wiring from the hall sensors was not up to withstanding the heat of the engine (where they are located is a very hot part of the engine), and over time the insulation gets brittle and shorts, typically in rain. The sensors themselves will often quit from the heat of the engine too, and sometimes work again once cooled.

That will give you some things to diagnose....

Ken

Ken - hall sensors are NOT a problem with hexheads/camheads. There are none on the engine. BMW uses magnetic reluctance (coils) sensors on the camshafts instead. Wouldn't want to have him chasing something that doesn't exist. IMHO - coils are quite unlikely as I stated above.

I just made a comment in another thread with a similar problem - http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?70061 - which may be of some help. Having damaged and badly routed wiring harnesses seems to be a BMW tradition.

 

[kellenbenz]

Fuel pump controller?

A friend had a similar situation on an 06 RT. I hooked up my GS911 and it showed a failed Fuel pump controller. You may be able to trouble shoot by bypassing it. Search "fuel pump controller" and you will see many ways to do that.

Ron

 

[Jim Rogers]

Cutting Out

Had similar issue on '10 GSA two years ago. Cause - Loose battery terminal connection(s). (Vibration of riding resulted in intermittent contact.)

 

[racer7]

Not coils for sure (The only easy way to test your sticks is subsitution of known good parts and symptoms do not match anyway).
Not Hall Effect Sensor, doesn't have one.
Definitely not the fuel pump itself- they're extremely reliable.
Also not fuel filter- it doesn't have one- just a relatively huge screen that can't be plugged.

I'd bet either a loose battery connection (lift the seat and tighten them up, my first choice) or the fuel pump controller (fpc) on which you will find a lot on this site with a little search (they often fail intermittent). Your chance of an fpc failure is a lot higher if you still have an original fpc (silver colored, new parts are black powder coat). Definitive diagnosis of fpc failure is either by a GS-911, dealer computer, or running a bypass cable which then restores the bike to operation. You can safely run the bike with bypass for as long as you like as long as you keep at least 1/4 tank of fuel in the bike. You can also easily replace an fpc yourself- about $150 and you need a T-20 and T-25 wrench. Takes 10 minutes if you know how, maybe 30 min if its your first. Note the fpc failure would not explain your brake symptoms so if that is the cause of stoppage you have 2 problems.

Next on my list would be a wiring harness issue but I think its less probable on an 07- most would have surfaced sooner.

For giggles, let us know who gets it right...

 

[JPiccolo]

Not coils for sure (The only easy way to test your sticks is subsitution of known good parts and symptoms do not match anyway).
Not Hall Effect Sensor, doesn't have one.
Definitely not the fuel pump itself- they're extremely reliable.
Also not fuel filter- it doesn't have one- just a relatively huge screen that can't be plugged.

I'd bet either a loose battery connection (lift the seat and tighten them up, my first choice) or the fuel pump controller (fpc) on which you will find a lot on this site with a little search (they often fail intermittent). Your chance of an fpc failure is a lot higher if you still have an original fpc (silver colored, new parts are black powder coat). Definitive diagnosis of fpc failure is either by a GS-911, dealer computer, or running a bypass cable which then restores the bike to operation. You can safely run the bike with bypass for as long as you like as long as you keep at least 1/4 tank of fuel in the bike. You can also easily replace an fpc yourself- about $150 and you need a T-20 and T-25 wrench. Takes 10 minutes if you know how, maybe 30 min if its your first. Note the fpc failure would not explain your brake symptoms so if that is the cause of stoppage you have 2 problems.

Next on my list would be a wiring harness issue but I think its less probable on an 07- most would have surfaced sooner.

For giggles, let us know who gets it right...

Thanks for your info......Replaced the battery.... conections are tight...I'll look into the fuel pump controller....The bike sometime starts......will run for about ten minutes then as soon as i get on it it dies......again thanks

 

[JPiccolo]

Thank you all for your insite

Thank You all for your help

I'm adding the year and model of your bike to your thread. Please read: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?46055 - and please do this yourself in future posts to the tech forums. It helps people spot threads they may be able to help with, or to find the info in a thread at a later time. I also added what I think you're asking about since that might encourage someone to open the thread. In general - the better the question you post the better the answers will be.

As to your problems - it isn't clear to me what you're describing. It appears to be two problems - one with the brake system and one with the engine.

It might have a common root - how old is your battery? If it's more than 2 years old, find a shop with a load tester and have them check the condition. A bad battery can cause the engine to stop.

I doubt VERY much if it's "coils" since each cylinder has two coils, and each cylinder is capable of running with one of them disabled (doesn't run as well - but it will fire the cylinder.)

 

[steveaikens]

?? Problem solved? If so, what did you find?

No one mentioned a faulty key sensor ring antenna.

http://www.bmwmcchattanooga.com/products/RING-ANTENNA/1026881/61357705247.html

 

[JPiccolo]

Thanks

Ordered the fuel pump control module....when i removed it lots of water and corrosion...i'll try that.... Then move on the the key ring ......thanks for your help

 

[JPiccolo]

Thanks

Will do.....ordered the fuel control module...i'll get back to you.......

not coils for sure (the only easy way to test your sticks is subsitution of known good parts and symptoms do not match anyway).
Not hall effect sensor, doesn't have one.
Definitely not the fuel pump itself- they're extremely reliable.
Also not fuel filter- it doesn't have one- just a relatively huge screen that can't be plugged.

I'd bet either a loose battery connection (lift the seat and tighten them up, my first choice) or the fuel pump controller (fpc) on which you will find a lot on this site with a little search (they often fail intermittent). Your chance of an fpc failure is a lot higher if you still have an original fpc (silver colored, new parts are black powder coat). Definitive diagnosis of fpc failure is either by a gs-911, dealer computer, or running a bypass cable which then restores the bike to operation. You can safely run the bike with bypass for as long as you like as long as you keep at least 1/4 tank of fuel in the bike. You can also easily replace an fpc yourself- about $150 and you need a t-20 and t-25 wrench. Takes 10 minutes if you know how, maybe 30 min if its your first. Note the fpc failure would not explain your brake symptoms so if that is the cause of stoppage you have 2 problems.

Next on my list would be a wiring harness issue but i think its less probable on an 07- most would have surfaced sooner.

For giggles, let us know who gets it right...

 

[steveaikens]

Ordered the fuel pump control module....when i removed it lots of water and corrosion...i'll try that.... Then move on the the key ring ......thanks for your help

Quick note on the antenna. You have to have the dealer program it to your key. I carry a spare. If needed on the road, simply wire tie the new one to the old ring and the bike will start and run fine. There's a couple photos out there - I think on ADV Rider - of the best way to do it.

 

[marchyman]

Quick note on the antenna. You have to have the dealer program it to your key. I carry a spare. If needed on the road, simply wire tie the new one to the old ring and the bike will start and run fine. There's a couple photos out there - I think on ADV Rider - of the best way to do it.

Huh? The antenna is just that: an antenna; a coil of wire that surrounds the key. There is nothing that is part of the device that needs or can be programed.

Also, a failing antenna can not cause a bike to cut out. The failure mode is that the bike can't be started with EWS displayed on the console. Once the bike is started the antenna is not used.

 

[racer7]

True. Antenna only connects key and bike computer and is only a wire ring.
This bike should have had its EWS replaced in the 08 service campaign to replace all of those prior due to the defect rate. Only BMW can program new keys to the bike computer but anyone can replace an EWS ring. But I agree the symptoms don't match.

OP- you are not doing this in a logical way. You're throwing parts at it based on the educated opinions here without confirming that the part you are replacing is indeed defective. So perhaps you get lucky and perhaps you just waste money and effort. By the time you get to part 2, if its not working yet, you might as well have had a dealer look at it rather than waste more time and $. Or start confirming whether the item is defective first.

Water and corrosion on the fpc is consistent with a problem there but not definitive that it is defective. A bypass cable install, a new fpc fixing the problem, or a GS-911 / dealer computer code search is.

 

[steveaikens]

True. Antenna only connects key and bike computer and is only a wire ring.
This bike should have had its EWS replaced in the 08 service campaign to replace all of those prior due to the defect rate. Only BMW can program new keys to the bike computer but anyone can replace an EWS ring. But I agree the symptoms don't match.

OP- you are not doing this in a logical way. You're throwing parts at it based on the educated opinions here without confirming that the part you are replacing is indeed defective. So perhaps you get lucky and perhaps you just waste money and effort. By the time you get to part 2, if its not working yet, you might as well have had a dealer look at it rather than waste more time and $. Or start confirming whether the item is defective first.

Water and corrosion on the fpc is consistent with a problem there but not definitive that it is defective. A bypass cable install, a new fpc fixing the problem, or a GS-911 / dealer computer code search is.

Correct on all counts. I'd forgotten exactly what his symptoms were. During the failures with the early antenna rings, it was not unusual for them to work intermittently - as was the case with mine before it was replaced. However, the missing part of the OPs problem is the EWS lamp. He didn't say it came on. If it doesn't come on - the antenna is not to problem. In my case, just looked up the service invoice for the warranty work - the dealer replaced the antenna and the switch, which meant new keys, which also required re-keying all the locks.

Sorry to add to the confusion.

Racer7 is on the money about getting a proper diagnosis. Based on the description of the recess and water issue, it does sound like the FPC. Easy fix to by-pass it to test it. If it's the old silver one - it's very likely it needs replacing.

 

[JPiccolo]

Thanks to All

Well the problem is solved......and the winner is....... Fuel pump control module....Thanks to all

 

[tzimmermann]

'05 R1200RT cuts out for no reason

After reading this thread, I wonder if this is my issue. I have a couple more symptoms though.
While warming up, it's died three times.
While sitting at a light it's died four times
While riding, it hasn't died yet, but it sputters a little.
It's not purring like a kitten anymore, sounds a little rough.
Don't know if the FPC is original or not. (Bought Used), I'll follow that thread to validate it.

Do you guys recommend any type of fuel treatment or injector cleaners? Could this be the problem?

Trevor