Headlight Modulator vs. Driving Lights

[bikerfish1100]

Oh, you got me there. You are right. Driving lights are legal on the street in all 50 states, IF they are turned OFF!!

That really doesn't do much for being seen! (the original point of this whole thread).

hmmm, "off" = "dim". interesting concept. not sure if Webster would agree with your interpretation, but who am i to judge?
(remember, each state has their own laws regarding auxilliary lighting.)

 

[grossjohann]

(remember, each state has their own laws regarding auxilliary lighting.)

Good point. I am most familiar with New York State DMV regulations.

 

[jimabmw]

Hello,

Two of the last motorcycle crashes I investigated had the same scenario...

Auto waiting to turn into traffic. Motorcycle coming towards him flashes his lights to let him in. Auto pulls out. MC hits auto. Auto driver says MC flashed his lights to let him out. MC says no, had modulator on. MC driver in hospital, auto driver goes on to McDonalds. Who'se at fault? Does it matter? And, if you have ever been in front of an MC with modulator in the daytime, they freakin' piss you off......

Just my 2 cents.

Jeff

I can see where a driver might see a flashing light and think you are telling them to pull out and it only takes one person to think that and ruin your day.

 

[Kev95gs]

I know of a fellow rider who was creamed by a semi truck.

Why did the truck come into her lane?

"She flashed for me to get over." Totalled motorcycle, lots of time in the hospital.

She was using a Modulating headlight. Modulating headlights have a dark side, too.

For me, I think there are other ways to be seen.

I wear a day glow Olympia phantom suit, white helmet, dual headlight and driving lights.

My best defense is between my ears. (my wife might dispute this statement)

my .02

Kevin

 

[BeemerMike]

Modulating headlights have a dark side, too.

Sorry, Kevin, but apparently (according to some) it is somehow un-American, or wimpy, or "off topic" to suggest that a person needs to also consider the potential reaction and response of other motorists in deciding whether to use a headlamp modulator. That is, you don't need to consider the dark side, only whether or not it is legal.

Those of us with experience in safety and risk management know that you do need to consider and balance both the potential benefits and the potential detriments (i.e., the unintended consequences) of any action that is intended to reduce risk before you take it. Just because you CAN do something does not necessarily mean you SHOULD do it. For example, in general gloves are a good idea to protect your hands from injury in the workplace, but you don't use them near rotating equipment.

IF a person decides to use a headlamp modulator, the correct answer/rationale is (or should be), of course, "Yes, I recognize and have considered the potential adverse consequences that might result from using a headlamp modulator (such as a bad reaction by other motorists), but I believe that for my situation on balance the increase in my safety due to increased visibility to the general motorist population (e.g., an inattentive driver making a left turn in front of me) outweighs the small potential increase in risk from a few motorists."

It is hard to tell if people really believe some of the things they have been saying in this thread, or if they are just puffing. Apparently, nothing more is to be gained here from further discussion. Those of us who understand the concept of risk analysis and risk balance get it, and those that don't, don't.

 

[bikerfish1100]

ya know, given the rapid flash rate of a modulator, and the fact that it continues to flash non-stop, i'd be inclined to think that if someone were to mistake that flash pattern as an "okay, go ahead and pull out" message, they would be likely to mistake a motorcycle as a one-eyed car that is still 2x its actual distance away. a brain-dead and incompetent cage/truck driver remains a brain-dead and incompetent driver, regardless of what we do to help them.
bottom line? ride defensively, regardless of your choice of conspicuity.

 

[BeemerMike]

bottom line? ride defensively, regardless of your choice of conspicuity.

I tell friends that I use two primary rules when riding:

1. I am invisible, and no one else on the road can see me.

2. The ones that can see me are trying to hit me.

But, of course, I'm just an un-American wimp from Texas who lives in fear of his surroundings.

 

[SGTBORING]

Both

I have a pair of really good Motto Lights on the forks. I run with them on all the time. I still have people pull in front of me. I put on the modulator and have noticed a dramatic change. I can not count how many times some one will start to pull out in front of me and them stop as they notice the light. I do not agree that have the modulator on invites people to pull out. I think it is just the opposite. I could not sustain the flashing of the head light as long or fast at the mod does.

Now when a person does pull out in front of me... its clear they are being selfish and rude. I would love to have a knuckle drill with this type of driver, but do not wish to deal with the aftermath and consequences.

Some say that the mod upsets people. I would rather be unpopular then busted up.

Interestingly in my neck of the woods based on my UN-scientific observations is that 20% of the type of driver that decides to just pull out in front of me have Yankees fan stickers on their back windows, or state tags either from the Empire or Garden state hm mm....?

 

[Kev95gs]

ya know, given the rapid flash rate of a modulator, and the fact that it continues to flash non-stop, i'd be inclined to think that if someone were to mistake that flash pattern as an "okay, go ahead and pull out" message, they would be likely to mistake a motorcycle as a one-eyed car that is still 2x its actual distance away. a brain-dead and incompetent cage/truck driver remains a brain-dead and incompetent driver, regardless of what we do to help them.
bottom line? ride defensively, regardless of your choice of conspicuity.

I think the issue is probably more of drivers just making a quick glance, seeing something and assuming it is one thing, instead of actually verifing their assumption. We're assigning our thought processes to the masses that have never even sat on a motorcycle much less driven one on major roads.

Of course you know the old addage. When you assume it just makes an a** of u and me.

It's cager complacency more than anything, IMO, that causes problems! In the coccoon, own little world and, by choice or not, oblivious to their surroundings.

Then the random, self centered, raging maniac...

Be prepared! I just wanna ride my motorsickle!

Keep the shiny side up.

Kevin

 

[torags]

I tell friends that I use two primary rules when riding:

1. I am invisible, and no one else on the road can see me.

2. The ones that can see me are trying to hit me.

But, of course, I'm just an un-American wimp from Texas who lives in fear of his surroundings.

You Too?... +1

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

The only stupid thing I've ever seen a cager do in response to my modulating headlight is pull over.

I have never before heard of flashing one's headlights to signal it's okay to turn in front of me/pass me/etc. The only "unspoken code" I've ever heard for flashing headlights is "get out of the fast lane so I can pass you". That's one or two hits to the bottom half of the high-beam rocker switch. If you can activate your high beams manually using the rocker switch four times per seconds (as is the frequency of a legal headlight modulator) then I congratulate your quick trigger finger. These other meanings for flashing high beams must be regional, as they are certainly not the custom here on the west coast.

I agree with prior posters who point out that there is an infinite number of dumb people out driving around. The absence of a modulator might cause more accidents than the presence of one. The reverse might be true. I don't have stats - I've only seen/heard/read anecdotal information like a post above. I happen to think that a modulator will improve your odds, so I occasionally use one in appropriate situations. I'm not particularly concerned about inciting road rage in other motorists. If they want to tangle with me over my modulator, they would likely find another reason to be a jerk anyways, so I'd rather they be a jerk who sees me than a jerk who doesn't.

 

[98lee]

ya know, given the rapid flash rate of a modulator, and the fact that it continues to flash non-stop, i'd be inclined to think that if someone were to mistake that flash pattern as an "okay, go ahead and pull out" message, they would be likely to mistake a motorcycle as a one-eyed car that is still 2x its actual distance away. a brain-dead and incompetent cage/truck driver remains a brain-dead and incompetent driver, regardless of what we do to help them.

As the esteemed philosopher Ron White said "Ya can't fix stupid."

 

[bikerfish1100]

As the esteemed philosopher Ron White said "Ya can't fix stupid."

well, not unless you begin using things that go "bang".

 

[BeemerMike]

As the esteemed philosopher Ron White said "Ya can't fix stupid."

No, but you can "anticipate" stupid!

 

[10564]

As the esteemed philosopher Ron White said "Ya can't fix stupid."



can't possibly put it better.

 

[MOTOR31]

No, but you can "anticipate" stupid!

I try to do just that every time I ride. So far it's been pretty successful.

 

[BeemerMike]

I try to do just that every time I ride. So far it's been pretty successful.

Congratulations! But remember, you only have to be wrong once.

 

[greenwald]

The World Thru My Shield

You know, all we can do as motorcyle riders sharing the road with much larger prey is stack the odds in our favor as much as possible, and then ride with that vigilant 'balance' of wonder for our surroundings vs. caution for danger.

That's why I use my modulator, flashing brake lights, a set of PIAA's, reflective material on side cases, ABS, ATGATT, loud horn, signal mirrors, etc., etc. etc.

There will always be other motorists that are irritated by our mere presence, whether it is because we confuse them with modulators, or get to use the HOV lanes, or annoy them with driving lights or realize we enjoy triple their gas mileage. The transition from envy to rage can be alarmingly abrupt.

The idea of 'reverse psychology,' in other words, riding to please (or at least, not provoke) them does not appeal to me.

I will be noticed, and after that, how we interact will be determined by MY experience and riding skills - but they will know I am there!

 

[98lee]

You know, all we can do as motorcyle riders sharing the road with much larger prey is stack the odds in our favor as much as possible, and then ride with that viligant 'balance' of wonder for our surroundings vs. caution for danger.

That's why I use my modulator, flashing brake lights, a set of PIAA's, reflective material on side cases, ABS, ATGATT, loud horn, signal mirrors, etc., etc. etc.

There will always be other motorists that are irritated by our mere presence, whether it is because we confuse them with modulators, or get to use the HOV lanes, or annoy them with driving lights or realize we enjoy triple their gas mileage. The transition from envy to rage can be alarmingly abrupt.

The idea of 'reverse psychology,' in other words, riding to please (or at least, not provoke) them does not appeal to me.

I will be noticed, and after that, how we interact will be determined by MY experience and riding skills - but they will know I am there!

Well said!

+1

 

[grossjohann]

My best defense is between my ears.

Not to deteriorate this argument any further...

It is wonderful to see such passion for motorcycle safety, but all this
talk of motorcycle lighting will have little effect on the largest cause of
motorcycle accidents: failure to negotiate a turn.

Aren't most motorcycle accidents "single vehicle accidents"?

[EDIT]
Apparently I was mistaken. In 2006, 75% of all motorcycle fatalities involved a passenger vehicle. Most single vehicle accidents were, however, were due to “operator error”.

More information:
http://www.motorcycle-accidents.com/pages/stats.html
[/EDIT]

Adding lighting is a good choice. I have certainly done it. The question
was which one is better; modulator, or driving lights?

The answer is: Aside from anecdotal evidence, there is little data to
support the use of one over the other. Headlight use in general has been
proven to reduce multi-vehicle accidents, so it might be logical to infer
that adding lighting to your motorcycle could further reduce the risk of
not being seen by other motorists. One must understand, however, that
motorcycling in an inherently risky activity and the best way to mitigate
these risks is to further develop one's proficiency in the "sport".

I.e. Get the lights you think will work the best for you, and then take an advanced MSF riding course. I try to take a course in the spring of every year.