2016 Africa Twin

[racer7]

Honda has finally shown pics, specs and prices for the 2016 Africa Twin.

Lighter, more compact than BMW GS bikes with lower price.
1000 cc twin motor probably a bunch smoother than the F800 twin.
Certainly will need fewer farkles to fix cost cutting in design and bad ergonomics compared to BMWs, making the cost advantage even larger

I've got a much loved but very old school 89 Transalp- this Africa Twin is the updated replacement many US riders have asked for, FINALLY!

Is Honda finally getting their bike act together again? (This isn't like their seriously stupid launch of a V-4 to compete with BMWs slow selling K1200S) I know this will eat sales of adv bikes from other J brands. How much will it bite BMWs GS sales?

 

[Dmftoy1]

Only time will tell - the Yamaha Super Tenere was supposed to be a GS killer too. . .

 

[milo]

Only time will tell - the Yamaha Super Tenere was supposed to be a GS killer too. . .

This. And I recall all the hype ahead of the VFR 1200 being a "game changer" with its DCT etc and where's it now? Looking forward to ride reviews and maybe a test ride myself though.

 

[bc1100s]

Lighter, more compact than BMW GS bikes with lower price.
1000 cc twin motor probably a bunch smoother than the F800 twin.
Certainly will need fewer farkles to fix cost cutting in design and bad ergonomics compared to BMWs, making the cost advantage even larger

Sure can tell a lot from pictures and a spec sheet....

 

[racer7]

Mostly not from spec sheet but from photos, long experience with both Honda and BMW design choices- which has taught me it takes a lot of cash to correct BMWs ergo choices on the majority of its models and that basic protection of parts is often ignored in stock models. My F800GT provides me ample experience with the vibes of the 800 twin to know it is a virtual certainty Honda will do better even with more displacement- even my 600cc Vtwin in the 89 Transalp is smoother than the BMW 800 twin despite the fact that the V twin config and lack of balancers suggests it should be the other way around. And my old TA has better stock protection for almost everything compared to a stock GS (only 40ish hp though)

Honda is likely to use cases unsuitable for serious use so I hope the makers of better metal cases (eg Jesse, etc) will make sets for the AT as they already do for some other J brands

FWIW, I've always looked at the Tenere as an almost good enough attempt to make an R1200GS competitor but see the AT a a rather different type of bike. Honda apparently used a KTM990 as its design mule.

Hondas traditional problem in new models is excess weight but that does not appear to be the case here- either in photos or published info.

 

[Dmftoy1]

Doesn't the DCT add like 38 pounds and is required for some of the more advanced features?

 

[akbeemer]

I have a Tenere and like it very much. The way mine is equipped I would have paid $6-7000 more for a GS, and I have a reasonable expectation that it will be more reliable in the long term. I do believe the GS will out perform the Tenere in many areas, but the Yamaha is still a very good bike and its capabilities exceed my abilities.

We have two F series bikes; a F800GS and a F650GS. Neither Annie (main rider of both) nor I have any complaints about the smoothness of the engine.

 

[Ponch1]

I'm still waiting to see if Honda updates the ST and the GW. Talk about long in tooth.

 

[sagerat]

I'd be willing to bet the F800GS has minimal problem defeating the Africa Twin.

I've found BMW ergos to be fine for my size and the stock metal boxes on my R1200GSA to be just fine.

I agree the VFR1200 was a bike that answered a question nobody had asked. I loved my '02 VFR 800 and would love to pick up one of the new versions.

 

[k75s]

I loved my '02 VFR 800 and would love to pick up one of the new versions.

yeah, me too. Want something to replace my R1100S
(please refrain from negative comments on the VFR 800, I have heard all the commentary on all the VFR generations, and which generations people prefer)

 

[jconway607]

A couple of comments. First, I believe a recent comparison of adventure bikes by a major motorcycling magazine (I can't recall the name, although I read the article) put the new KTM adventure bike ahead of the GS for the first time. I was surprised, but they had valid reasons. Second, I recall in a recent MOA news that there was a letter from a guy who went to a BMW dealership figuring he would buy a new GS for about $17,000. When he got there, he found no bike on the floor for less than about $23,000. I think he walked out. I'm not sure how much more BMW can charge for an over sized, single rider dirt bike.

I doubt there is anyone on the planet who would disparage the reliability of Honda products. If they can bring out an excellent adventure bike that undercuts the GS by about $7,000 they may well sell a few of them.

 

[visian]

...there was a letter from a guy who went to a BMW dealership figuring he would buy a new GS for about $17,000. When he got there, he found no bike on the floor for less than about $23,000. I think he walked out. I'm not sure how much more BMW can charge for an over sized, single rider dirt bike.

I doubt there is anyone on the planet who would disparage the reliability of Honda products. If they can bring out an excellent adventure bike that undercuts the GS by about $7,000 they may well sell a few of them.

What's going on in my mind right now is whether to sell my HP2 enduro and get an Africa Twin, or spend less than half the Africa Twin's price and put Ohlins forks and some other special bits on the bike I have now.

Arguments for keeping the HPe: 75 pound lighter with 20 additional HP, brand new rear drive ($1800, ugh!), bike hauls ass and takes no prisoners. Oh, and cachet!

Arguments for buying an Africa Twin: new *Honda* (reliable, durable) with dealers all over creation, very interested in the DCT because my left thumb is blown out from 40+ years of clutching.

Hard to say... wish I could have both!

Ian

 

[bc1100s]

...I recall in a recent MOA news that there was a letter from a guy who went to a BMW dealership figuring he would buy a new GS for about $17,000. When he got there, he found no bike on the floor for less than about $23,000...

I believe that bike was fully optioned (ESA, Luggage, etc.). A dealer would likely have motorcycles that have the options which, in his/her experience, are most popular and most frequently requested by customers. One has the option of ordering a standard, un-optioned, motorcycle if one is not in the dealer's inventory. Whether or not that motorcycle is readily available from BMW NA or another dealer is another question. Its the same with cars. I once waited 3 months to receive a car equipped the way I wanted it.

But best o' luck to Honda. A wider variety of competitive motorcycles helps everyone.

 

[jeffkruger]

I read the latest report about the bike in Cycleworld. Looks like a fine bike. 13 pounds lighter than a 12GS certainly wouldn't be enough to sway me though. Its a parallel twin, so maintenance won't be as straight forward as on a 12GS.

Competition is usually a good thing, and keeps everyone innovating, but from what I can tell so far, I don't see this bike as a game changer or anything, and doubt BMW needs to fear it cutting into GS sales much. Hopefully Touratech and ther rest of the aftermarket will support it well, but the GS's are already extremely well supported.

 

[jconway607]

, brand new rear drive ($1800, ugh!), Ian

Wow. Could I ask how old that bike was, and how many miles it had on it when it needed that rather pricey work? Thanks.

 

[lkchris]

I'd think the Africa Twin competes with the 1200GS about the same as the Accord competes with the 5-series.

Racer7 is closer to the mark comparing it to the 800GS. Economy bikes.

It does have a certain "legend" about it, which the 800 hasn't and the 1200 has to the max.

Be interesting to see if the Honda can replace the 1200GS as the top selling bike (all bikes) in the UK.

 

[jconway607]

I'd think the Africa Twin competes with the 1200GS about the same as the Accord competes with the 5-series.

I think you're right about that. The Accord is very reasonably priced, comes with a stellar reputation which has made it one of the best selling cars ever made, has excellent reliability, great availability of dealer support, relatively inexpensive parts and repair cost, highly enviable resale demand, etc. Yes, it's definitely a Honda product. So I guess if you are looking for something with lots of pizzazz, that costs an arm and a leg to buy and maintain, better pass the Honda dealership and head on over to the Beemer lot.

I will be curious if we all get the details of the age and mileage on the $1800 final drive replacement on his HP2 that was mentioned by an earlier poster. Oh, wait a minute. Am I allowed to mention that?

 

[omega man]

Looks nice.......

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/07/2...w-photos-specifications-new-details-released/

OM

 

[bc1100s]

I think you're right about that. The Accord is very reasonably priced, comes with a stellar reputation which has made it one of the best selling cars ever made, has excellent reliability, great availability of dealer support, relatively inexpensive parts and repair cost, highly enviable resale demand, etc. Yes, it's definitely a Honda product.

And one could make the very same argument for every Honda vs BMW product made. Somehow BMW stays in business.

 

[braddog]

Looks nice.......

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/07/2...w-photos-specifications-new-details-released/

OM

At first glance, the Honda looks very KTM-ish.