Starter Problem on '83 R65

[grover1949]

Last week, after about a 20 mile ride, when I went to start my '83 R65, I could hear the relay click under the seat, but nothing from the starter. After hitting the starter button 4-5 times, it kicked in and fired right up. This morning, same thing; it required 4-5 hits of the starter button to get the starter to engage and start the engine. The starter relay is less than a year old and the right combination switch is a 6 month old OEM BMW. I assume it's the solenoid but want to hear what your ideas and experiences are. Thanks in advance - Larry

 

[mneblett]

Last week, after about a 20 mile ride, when I went to start my '83 R65, I could hear the relay click under the seat, but nothing from the starter. After hitting the starter button 4-5 times, it kicked in and fired right up. This morning, same thing; it required 4-5 hits of the starter button to get the starter to engage and start the engine. The starter relay is less than a year old and the right combination switch is a 6 month old OEM BMW. I assume it's the solenoid but want to hear what your ideas and experiences are. Thanks in advance - Larry

When was the last time the starter was removed and cleaned out? It may be nothing more than an accumulation of crud in the mechanism the solenoid moves to kick the starter pinion out into engagement with the flywheel.

In addition to the solenoid kicking out the pinion, at the end of its travel it closes the heavy-duty contacts that allow the battery to directly power the starter motor (keeps the pinion from spinning until engaged). 4-5 hits on the starter button may be what it is taking to bump the solenoid all of the way to its end position.

 

[grover1949]

When was the last time the starter was removed and cleaned out? It may be nothing more than an accumulation of crud in the mechanism the solenoid moves to kick the starter pinion out into engagement with the flywheel.

In addition to the solenoid kicking out the pinion, at the end of its travel it closes the heavy-duty contacts that allow the battery to directly power the starter motor (keeps the pinion from spinning until engaged). 4-5 hits on the starter button may be what it is taking to bump the solenoid all of the way to its end position.

Thanks Mark! I'm not sure of the time; I bought the bike 2 years ago. I'll pull it and clean it this weekend. - Larry

 

[20774]

9 times out of 10, it's the battery. I'd monitor the voltage across the battery terminals. If the voltage drops well below 10v, then the battery has a problem. If the battery voltage doesn't hardly move, that suggests something down stream is not latch (as in the relay) to engage the rest of the circuit.

Also check the battery terminals to be sure they are clean and tight.

 

[gfspencer]

I had an R65 that wouldn't start. The stator had died.

 

[20774]

I had an R65 that wouldn't start. The stator had died.

The charging system shouldn't affect the starter system. The bike will run with a dead alternator...as long as the battery holds out. Now if the stator is dragging on the rotor or creating some kind of mechanical lock, then maybe the stator could keep the bike from being started. But that would seem pretty rare.

 

[snowbum1]

Use VOLTMETER at battery; Ignition and headlight ON, press starter button. Battery voltage must be good, over 12 volts if fully charged and starter is NOT engaging. If starter engages, voltage should be over 11.5 or so.
Assuming those tests are OK, and that battery + terminal wires are not corroded away (look carefully at the terminal, and the insulation....old flooded type batteries had a habit of getting acid into the cable for the first inch and a half or so of cable; and, that the negative wire is solid and good to the chassis (transmission or wherever it is grounded), then, if starter is NOT rotating:

Remove all leads from battery negative terminal. If only the one large one, you can disconnect by unfastening at the speedometer cable hollow screw at the transmission.
Remove starter area cover.
Reconnect battery.
Connect test lamp or voltmeter to the black wire and connector that pushes onto the small terminal on the starter motor solenoid.
Ignition switch ON. Press starter button. Terminal must be energized. If not, starter relay or the thin black wire is faulty. Typically the relay can be opened, burnish the contacts, and that fixes things. NOTE that the relays that PLUG-IN have a habit of getting corrosion at the red wire connections, and unplugging and re-plugging in the relay usually fixes things for a while, the best fix is joining the red wires. IF the relay got enough moisture in it, it can corrode inside at the riveted connections for the contacts & red wires.
Assuming power IS at the solenoid spade with connector pushed onto it, then the solenoid is faulty. If you want to try to fix the solenoid, the details, with photos, are on my site.
To be sure of proper tightness of connections, be sure to check the tightness of the solenoid large terminals nuts.
If the solenoid kicks in, starter no turn, overhaul the starter or replace it.
snowbum
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

 

[grover1949]

Use VOLTMETER at battery; Ignition and headlight ON, press starter button. Battery voltage must be good, over 12 volts if fully charged and starter is NOT engaging. If starter engages, voltage should be over 11.5 or so.
Assuming those tests are OK, and that battery + terminal wires are not corroded away (look carefully at the terminal, and the insulation....old flooded type batteries had a habit of getting acid into the cable for the first inch and a half or so of cable; and, that the negative wire is solid and good to the chassis (transmission or wherever it is grounded), then, if starter is NOT rotating:

Remove all leads from battery negative terminal. If only the one large one, you can disconnect by unfastening at the speedometer cable hollow screw at the transmission.
Remove starter area cover.
Reconnect battery.
Connect test lamp or voltmeter to the black wire and connector that pushes onto the small terminal on the starter motor solenoid.
Ignition switch ON. Press starter button. Terminal must be energized. If not, starter relay or the thin black wire is faulty. Typically the relay can be opened, burnish the contacts, and that fixes things. NOTE that the relays that PLUG-IN have a habit of getting corrosion at the red wire connections, and unplugging and re-plugging in the relay usually fixes things for a while, the best fix is joining the red wires. IF the relay got enough moisture in it, it can corrode inside at the riveted connections for the contacts & red wires.
Assuming power IS at the solenoid spade with connector pushed onto it, then the solenoid is faulty. If you want to try to fix the solenoid, the details, with photos, are on my site.
To be sure of proper tightness of connections, be sure to check the tightness of the solenoid large terminals nuts.
If the solenoid kicks in, starter no turn, overhaul the starter or replace it.
snowbum
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

Thanks Snowbum!

 

[grover1949]

Thanks Snowbum!

Thanks Snowbum! The battery checked out ok. I decided that if I was pulling the starter to clean/rebuild it, I might just as well replace it. I got a new Valeo from euromotoelectrics.com. I ordered it last Sunday night and it arrived on Wednesday afternoon. Your guide with respect to filing down the cradle was spot-on. The Valeo was not settling in nicely, after grinding down the ridge, it fit perfectly. And it works perfectly! Thanks again!

- Larry