Shame on you Honda!

[nplenzick]

I heard at bike week that Honda delayed that move and will be making Goldwings here for an indefinite time. Rumor among wingers is that there will not be a new Wing until they move.

I hope that comes true as Ohio sure could use those jobs and the quality of the work that was being done their was on par with the Japanese and it some cases of higher quality according to the engineer I spoke to last year. I would think it wouldn't make economic sense to just build Goldwings, I would think they would have to build their whole cruiser line there.

 

[Visian]

personally....

i found honda's "red" tent to be a faded orange.

and...

ducati had - by far - the most impressive display at the show.

 

[Visian]

let's go riding in our pajamas.

true story: this nice young lady patted me on the head and told me i was cute.

i *damn* near pulled out the checkbook and bought a bike right then and there.

 

[Visian]

and on the return....

 

[mika]

I apparently stand corrected on the Triumph demo ride trailer, thank you for that bit of information. I still would not put that near the top of my list of why they have increased sales over the years. That list looks more like ÔÇô name recognition, product line diversity, price point, growth in the number of dealers, manufacturer support of dealers and a couple of other things before I get to a demo ride truck.

I did post HondaÔÇÖs comments on why they withdrew from F1 and their intention to focus on core business; motorcycles being one of them.

As to the unfounded panic in the business world in general you may well have a point. Panic is unproductive. Have you looked at Harley-Davidson sales figures? Have you followed the 2+ year decline in motorcycle sales? Within the motorcycle industry I would have great concern if I was a president or on a company board. The figures for the Japanese manufacturers would give me pause and send me looking for places to save costs.

Conceptually I like demo trucks and shows. I like kicking tires as much as the next guy. I totally agree at the dealer level not to figure out a demo system is bad business. However; from a return on the dollar I am not convinced it is the best place for a company to put their money until they have taken care of the issues I listed above.

ÔÇ£Shame on HondaÔÇØ and shame of BMW for not giving you a place to play, sorry but get a grip.

 

[bobs98]

i found honda's "red" tent to be a faded orange.

and...

ducati had - by far - the most impressive display at the show.

Love the lines on those new Ducs!

 

[nplenzick]

I apparently stand corrected on the Triumph demo ride trailer, thank you for that bit of information. I still would not put that near the top of my list of why they have increased sales over the years. That list looks more like – name recognition, product line diversity, price point, growth in the number of dealers, manufacturer support of dealers and a couple of other things before I get to a demo ride truck.

I did post Honda’s comments on why they withdrew from F1 and their intention to focus on core business; motorcycles being one of them.

As to the unfounded panic in the business world in general you may well have a point. Panic is unproductive. Have you looked at Harley-Davidson sales figures? Have you followed the 2+ year decline in motorcycle sales? Within the motorcycle industry I would have great concern if I was a president or on a company board. The figures for the Japanese manufacturers would give me pause and send me looking for places to save costs.

Conceptually I like demo trucks and shows. I like kicking tires as much as the next guy. I totally agree at the dealer level not to figure out a demo system is bad business. However; from a return on the dollar I am not convinced it is the best place for a company to put their money until they have taken care of the issues I listed above.

“Shame on Honda” and shame of BMW for not giving you a place to play, sorry but get a grip.

I think we can agree to disagree on some of these issues. Maybe some people missed it in my posts but as I pointed out my BMW dealer had an increase in sales after the 05 national at Lima. These sales were directly related to those demo rides as related to me by my dealer at the time I purchased my LT.

As for HD losing sales; that could very well be an oversaturation of the cruiser market, flooding their dealers with more bikes then can be sold, forcing their dealers to make huge upgrades to there stores and the fact that maybe just maybe the cruiser thing is leveling off and might be on the decline in the not to distant future.

Triumph on the other hand seems to be doing rather well, a nice broad spectrum of motorcycles, reasonably priced, a good amount of advertising and not shying away from giving people chance to ride their bikes at an event despite the death of a rider at the AMA vintage days at Mid Ohio in 2007 ( last I heard he had a heart attack).

Yea some people use the demo fleet so they can brag about how many different bikes they've ridden but the same could be said for these same people using dealers for the same thing, taking their attention away from someone who is really serious about buying.

Do you really think that the Honda MX team really needs the equivalent of an Indy Car or NASCAR in team support vehicles? For a dozen or so dirt bikes? Your kidding right? Is this not an area where Honda could save a few bucks.

If you don't think demo bikes don't matter talk to some of the people who stand in line at 5:30 AM at this years national in Tenn. If the demo team doesn't show up you'll see an uproar on this site like never before. I guarantee that!

So I stand by the title of this post. It's a bad business decision and very short sighted unless you have a company name like Chrysler or GM.

As for the photo's above; put one of these lovely things in tight racing
leathers with the top zipped down to an appropriate height and put her on the lead bike of a demo ride. Tell me you wouldn't think about buying a Ducati after that ride!

 

[mika]

I think we can agree to disagree on some of these issues. Maybe some people missed it in my posts but as I pointed out my BMW dealer had an increase in sales after the 05 national at Lima. These sales were directly related to those demo rides as related to me by my dealer at the time I purchased my LT.

As for HD losing sales; that could very well be an oversaturation of the cruiser market, flooding their dealers with more bikes then can be sold, forcing their dealers to make huge upgrades to there stores and the fact that maybe just maybe the cruiser thing is leveling off and might be on the decline in the not to distant future.

Triumph on the other hand seems to be doing rather well, a nice broad spectrum of motorcycles, reasonably priced, a good amount of advertising and not shying away from giving people chance to ride their bikes at an event despite the death of a rider at the AMA vintage days at Mid Ohio in 2007 ( last I heard he had a heart attack).

Yea some people use the demo fleet so they can brag about how many different bikes they've ridden but the same could be said for these same people using dealers for the same thing, taking their attention away from someone who is really serious about buying.

Do you really think that the Honda MX team really needs the equivalent of an Indy Car or NASCAR in team support vehicles? For a dozen or so dirt bikes? Your kidding right? Is this not an area where Honda could save a few bucks.

If you don't think demo bikes don't matter talk to some of the people who stand in line at 5:30 AM at this years national in Tenn. If the demo team doesn't show up you'll see an uproar on this site like never before. I guarantee that!

So I stand by the title of this post. It's a bad business decision and very short sighted unless you have a company name like Chrysler or GM.

As for the photo's above; put one of these lovely things in tight racing
leathers with the top zipped down to an appropriate height and put her on the lead bike of a demo ride. Tell me you wouldn't think about buying a Ducati after that ride!

I think about buying a Ducati as it is. Not certain I could handle buying one and riding with one of those young lovely s

Demo rides do matter. I haven't taken them at the rally but have spent time kicking tires and asking questions with the staff. I don't always see the business model or the birthright that you seem to for demo trucks chugging around the country to be at our beck and call. Triumph returned to them it seems but it was after they did a series of things that made their return the next logical step.

We are not Honda's core market as a nation or as a market segment. Be glad that Honda just pulled its demo truck and did not pull its sponsorship part in the Daytona races. Its core market, in US terms, is in the under 500cc world. They spent a ton of money bringing out an update Honda Cub and updating a number of models in its 250cc and below line. That type of rider is their bread and butter not us.

Up roar at the Rally if BMW doesn't come with - heck, what doesn't cause an uproar around here. People have complained about them when they have shown up - not enough models - not enough availability, hours of operation to short or to early - noise - to short a ride... very safe guarantee on your part .

Stand by the title of the post, great. Just move a little to the left please. The sun has moved and your no longer protecting my monitor and its causing a glare.

 

[Visian]

We are not Honda's core market as a nation or as a market segment. Be glad that Honda just pulled its demo truck and did not pull its sponsorship part in the Daytona races.

they would have pulled out if they could have. dahmikt

honda sells a *ton* of motocross bikes. what the initial observer may not have seen was all the fans standing around those factory trailers and motorhome the night of the supercross race, when there were 70,000 or so fans standing around.

demo rides would have been nice, for sure, but i don't think it would make or break honda's overall marketing presence at bike week.

now, bmw being totally absent from all the action surrounding the track is another thing. i thought that was a big mistake.

ducati is doing business in the same market climate and chose to make the investment in a very significant presence. in addition to the fashion show, they had stunt bike demos, a TON of motorcycles and other products, and booths from allied 3rd party products and services. it was an impressive showing, and it's been proven in the past that the brands that make the investment during the tough times will be the ones that do far better as the economic climate improves.

ian

 

[mika]

they would have pulled out if they could have. dahmikt

I know! Financially it would have cost them more than they would have saved and would have made the demo truck fuss a non issue.

honda sells a *ton* of motocross bikes. what the initial observer may not have seen was all the fans standing around those factory trailers and motorhome the night of the supercross race, when there were 70,000 or so fans standing around.

They have a double digit market share in the US and it is a big market but not their core. The UJM are getting hammered by the Chinese and Koreans in the the Asian and South American markets.

demo rides would have been nice, for sure, but i don't think it would make or break honda's overall marketing presence at bike week.

+1

now, bmw being totally absent from all the action surrounding the track is another thing. i thought that was a big mistake.

Did Husqvarna have a presence?

It is a sore spot for many but BMW AG seems to have decided to focus on pushing Husky in the US as their way to increase sales right now.

ducati is doing business in the same market climate and chose to make the investment in a very significant presence. in addition to the fashion show, they had stunt bike demos, a TON of motorcycles and other products, and booths from allied 3rd party products and services. it was an impressive showing,

Unlike BMW the US is Ducati's largest market. IIRC correctly it is even bigger than their aggregate European sales. They have followed H-D's brand marketing approach by licensing their name and logo to all sorts of things. In the past they have dropped more money to the bottom line from these sales than they realized from some of their better selling models. Also aren't the new owners are US based so this would be a big home show for them.

and it's been proven in the past that the brands that make the investment during the tough times will be the ones that do far better as the economic climate improves.

ian

The question is an investment in what?

Ten+ years ago Triumph made a number of cuts that irked fans and the show going public but in the long run seems to be paying off for them.

Honda has been in the process of big capital investment and reordering its manufacturing with an eye toward being more responsive to market demands. Their or the markets timing sucked.

BMW keeps making statements about focusing on back of the house issues and dealer needs when they have explained why they have cut back in shows and other things. To the average rider an improved parts infrastructure is not as visible as a demo truck but my parts guy can get me things more quickly. The specific dealer stuff is an unknown at this time.

 

[shire2000]

If I was seriously looking to purchase a bike, I would do my homework, narrow down to what I think fits my needs then go to each dealership to talk to the sales rep and take a test ride. If they denied the test ride, I would inform them in no uncertain terms, that they just lost a cash sale. I would think that especially in the present economical situation, the dealers would love to move some merchandise.

There is no way that I would buy any bike without a test ride first. I don't buy cars or trucks that way, why should I buy a bike that way. I have no problem putting down a "security" deposit against any damage if I should do any damage to the bike.

 

[nplenzick]

they would have pulled out if they could have. dahmikt

honda sells a *ton* of motocross bikes. what the initial observer may not have seen was all the fans standing around those factory trailers and motorhome the night of the supercross race, when there were 70,000 or so fans standing around.

demo rides would have been nice, for sure, but i don't think it would make or break honda's overall marketing presence at bike week.

now, bmw being totally absent from all the action surrounding the track is another thing. i thought that was a big mistake.

ducati is doing business in the same market climate and chose to make the investment in a very significant presence. in addition to the fashion show, they had stunt bike demos, a TON of motorcycles and other products, and booths from allied 3rd party products and services. it was an impressive showing, and it's been proven in the past that the brands that make the investment during the tough times will be the ones that do far better as the economic climate improves.

ian

70K fans Saturday night? Maybe half of that at best. I spent four days next to the Honda rig as I was in the big white tent. I assume the rigs moved inside the track for Saturday's races as they were not in the parking lot on that day. The rigs did return on Sunday and as I was pulling out a few mechanics were washing down the bikes. I saw no one paying any interest to what they were doing.
I'm not knocking Honda's MX race team or their sponsorship of the speedway. Unlike NASCAR motorcycle racing really does filter down to the ridding public, it really does improve the breed. It's just over those days where as an observer I saw little interest in what they were doing. Some of that is a result that they did little of anything to draw a crowd besides striping a bike to the frame and leaving a frame outside for people to look at. At no time during that period I never saw more then maybe two dozen (if that) pay any attention as to what was going on.
So as an observer ( and I am pretty good at that I might add) I was struck by these multi million dollar rigs carrying a few dirt bikes in a parking lot that a few hundred bikers parked their bikes to visit vendors and the factory displays make it to my booth to complain about Honda not having demo rides. Seems like a no brainier to me.

 

[535IS]

I don't mind them spending money on racing as I'm an x racer myself.

I was not suggesting that they stop racing. I was pointing out that the purpose of the racing (advertising) was thwarted by less active selling.

 

[Visian]

70K fans Saturday night? Maybe half of that at best. I spent four days next to the Honda rig as I was in the big white tent. I assume the rigs moved inside the track for Saturday's races as they were not in the parking lot on that day. The rigs did return on Sunday and as I was pulling out a few mechanics were washing down the bikes. I saw no one paying any interest to what they were doing.

hard to say how many, it was a guess and there were a log of people there.

At no time during that period I never saw more then maybe two dozen (if that) pay any attention as to what was going on.
So as an observer ( and I am pretty good at that I might add) I was struck by these multi million dollar rigs carrying a few dirt bikes in a parking lot that a few hundred bikers parked their bikes to visit vendors and the factory displays make it to my booth to complain about Honda not having demo rides. Seems like a no brainier to me.

what seems like a no brainer to me is that those race haulers were going to daytona *anyway* so parking them where they could get additional exposure amounts to free advertising.

the honda booth was mobbed when i was there. it didn't look like anyone wanted to burn the place down because there weren't any test rides.

 

[Visian]

The question is an investment in what?

brand exposure/promotion.

Ten+ years ago Triumph made a number of cuts that irked fans and the show going public but in the long run seems to be paying off for them.

have you ever tried selling a used triumph? you practically have to give them away.