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R1150RT Twin-Spark Lower-Plug Problem

roger 04 rt

New member
Recently my R1150RT began starting less crisply than it usually does. It only occurred on the first start after sitting overnight. Although the engine turned over briskly and started quickly (~1.5 seconds), it idled anemically for the first 10-15 seconds. If I blipped the throttle, the idle was restored more quickly but I wanted to figure out the root cause.

It turns out that the culprit was the lower plugs, in particular, a fouled left-side lower plug. Although there is plenty written about the symptoms of failing stick coils on twin-spark 1150s, there is not a lot written about the symptoms of a failing lower plug on those bikes so I’ve added some narrative of the symptoms.

Because I’ve got an LC-1 controlling Closed Loop lambda on my R1150, I’ve also got the ability to log AFR from the moment I start cranking. It’s also possible to set up a GS-911 to begin recording data before starting so I had the possibility to try and capture the weak idle conditions. Below is a chart of exhaust AFR (actually exhaust oxygen content converted to AFR).

Looking at the chart you can see that during cranking the AFR starts at about 19:1, which is very lean—too lean for a cold engine. Then after the engine catches, the AFR slowly richens over the first 15 seconds to normal fuel ratios of about 13:1 for the 20C ambient temperature at the time. If the bike was running perfectly, the AFR would instantly drop to about 12.5-13:1 and then slowly get leaner until fully warmed up.

Most AFR problems are fueling related but my fuel pressure and fuel volume were good, and the fueling was correct at all other times—just not during some cold starts. And a leaking injector would most likely have led to a richer starting mixture not a leaner one. Compounding the problem, although the idle was anemic (~1000 RPM with the Fast Idle Lever at mid-detent position), the engine wasn’t misfiring.

Problems like this can be tough to find—intermittent and marginal—so I hoped that the data would point to the solution. The answer was there but I had to look at the leanness in a different light. Rather than seeing the lean AFR as the result of too little fuel or too much air in the combustion chamber, I went with the idea that not all the fuel and air combined during combustion, resulting in unburned O2 in the exhaust, which the LC-1 reports as a lean AFR.

Since the stick coils on my bike are only a year old, I decided to consider that the lower plugs were part of the problem. So I disconnected (and grounded) each plug wire from the lower spark plugs. As it turned out, a single lower plug disconnected at cold start gave the same symptoms. Two lower plugs disconnected resulted in a very slow, rough idling engine for 15-20 seconds. After the bike had warmed up for a minute or so, it ran fine without the lower plugs.

Spark advance also seems to factor into the problem. One of the benefits of a twin-spark ignition is that the mixture in the combustion chamber burns faster. As a result, the ignition advance curve for a twin-spark engine is less than for a single-plug version of the same engine. My R1150 has 5 degrees of spark advance during starting on a 20C day but the single-spark R1150 has 15 degrees of advance under the same conditions. That leads to too little spark advance when the lower plug(s) doesn’t fire, apparently resulting in unconsumed fuel and oxygen in the exhaust, which could explain why I was seeing excess O2 (lean AFR) without misfiring.

After getting this far, my next step was to remove the plugs. Both were dark but the left plug seemed oily-wet. DR suggested that oil may be seeping past the rings when the bike is parked on the sidestand. I’ll be checking to see if that’s the cause of the fouled lower plug.

Bottom Line
The anemic idle and lean AFR were caused by a non-firing lower plug that caused the stock spark advance to be too short for complete combustion in a cold engine. I’ll figure out if the plug is collecting oil and then replace the lower plugs.

The consequence of losing a lower plug seems to be harder starting and (perhaps) poorer top end performance both due to too little spark advance without the lower plug(s) firing.

r1150rtlowerplugleanstart.jpg
 
I've had to replace my lower wires due to a combination of aging and over-tight mounting clips: since they live in a hot area, maybe whatever they use for the dielectric gives out after 10 years (imagine that!), and I had a few spots where the clips were visibly cutting into the outer jacket.

Last time I looked, the part number in the fiche was wrong - unless you need the shielded "Authority" wires (for radio suppression), use the GS lines.
 
Paul,
I think replacing the wires is a great idea. They're old and if they're causing problems, debugging will be a lot harder than just replacing. I'm wondering now if the plug wires are causing a weak spark, causing the plugs to foul, or is leaking oil contaminating the spark plug.

The problem I'm tracking now has made it clearer to me that the spark-retarding effect of losing either lower plug will cause truly subtle problems. I'm going to do some riding/testing of single and double lower plug failures.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
This has me wondering why did the factory set up the computer that way? (or did they?) "Everybody knows" that a cold engine needs a slightly richer mix to fire up, and that 10-degree advance difference just sounds weird; and as pollution-minded as the factory is, they'd have to be aware that a "cranking but not starting" engine will pollute more.

The two sensors in the Hall trigger serve different purposes, so I'd expect that by two or three complete rotations, the computer "sees" that the temperature sensor is stone cold and the O2 sensor hasn't gotten up to snuff yet.

So maybe our computers are slow, or just that limited in their ability to quickly adapt to this condition? We could speculate that there isn't enough room in memory to store this specific condition; maybe at the next version of the AF-XiED...

By the way, when I had my '97 1100, I set the ignition trigger to fully advanced - and it seemed to run better in all conditions, and the plugs still looked OK. Haven't tried that with either of the 1150s...
 
This has me wondering why did the factory set up the computer that way? (or did they?) "Everybody knows" that a cold engine needs a slightly richer mix to fire up, and that 10-degree advance difference just sounds weird; and as pollution-minded as the factory is, they'd have to be aware that a "cranking but not starting" engine will pollute more.

The two sensors in the Hall trigger serve different purposes, so I'd expect that by two or three complete rotations, the computer "sees" that the temperature sensor is stone cold and the O2 sensor hasn't gotten up to snuff yet.

So maybe our computers are slow, or just that limited in their ability to quickly adapt to this condition? We could speculate that there isn't enough room in memory to store this specific condition; maybe at the next version of the AF-XiED...

By the way, when I had my '97 1100, I set the ignition trigger to fully advanced - and it seemed to run better in all conditions, and the plugs still looked OK. Haven't tried that with either of the 1150s...

It's interesting that the new waterheads fire in the first stroke, just like old carburetor bikes.
 
This has me wondering why did the factory set up the computer that way? (or did they?) "Everybody knows" that a cold engine needs a slightly richer mix to fire up, and that 10-degree advance difference just sounds weird; and as pollution-minded as the factory is, they'd have to be aware that a "cranking but not starting" engine will pollute more.

The two sensors in the Hall trigger serve different purposes, so I'd expect that by two or three complete rotations, the computer "sees" that the temperature sensor is stone cold and the O2 sensor hasn't gotten up to snuff yet.

So maybe our computers are slow, or just that limited in their ability to quickly adapt to this condition? We could speculate that there isn't enough room in memory to store this specific condition; maybe at the next version of the AF-XiED...

By the way, when I had my '97 1100, I set the ignition trigger to fully advanced - and it seemed to run better in all conditions, and the plugs still looked OK. Haven't tried that with either of the 1150s...

Paul,
Even with one of the lower plugs not functioning my 04RT starts very quickly (~1.5 seconds) and there is plenty of fuel for a rich starting mixture.

My thought is that a) engine temp=air temp so the Motronic knows at key on that the engine is cold, b) that the twin-spark has that retarded timing on a 20C cold start (a warm morning) for a steady idle without a ton of extra fuel and c) the exhaust leanness I'm measuring is due to incomplete combustion caused by no left-side lower plug creating a single-spark situation and slower combustion.

On a 10C morning (chart below from my bike, oil temp in degrees F), the 04RT has almost 11 degrees advance for 1 minute then drops to 4 degrees advance after warming up some to about 20C oil temp.

Because any dual ignition must run with less spark advance due to the faster combustion process (flame front starting at two points), what we need to understand better is, what are the symptoms of one or both of the lower plugs not firing? Also if my lower left plug has been knocked out due to small oils seepage, what should I do?
RB
 
I've tried a couple more checks on the lower plugs.

1. After sitting for several hours on the side-stand and then overnight on the center stand the lower left plug was removed and inspected. There wasn't any oil pooling inside the plug well but I noted that the threads and seat of the plug were oily. (My bike consumes only a small amount of oil between oil changes.)

2. Started the bike after an overnight cold-soak with the left lower plug wire pulled and grounded. The bike had a very hard time starting and running. It was as if I had pulled the wire from both plugs. (Turns out the right plug had an anemic spark so it was starting on just the main plugs.)

I think it's safe to conclude now that the twin-spark R1150 needs all four plugs firing to start quickly and idle well when the engine is started fully cold. This is consistent with the short spark-advance (4 degrees) and the lack of a second flame front when one of the plugs isn't firing.

3. Next the bike was started and run until the engine was hot, 6 bars (no plastic, external fan). The plugs were removed and inspected. The tips of the insulators had started to self-clean but both plugs had an accumulation of black oily residue between the body of the plug and ceramic insulator. The right plug was visibly worse.

Then the plugs were tested one at a time, on each side for spark, with the same results when tested on either side. The left plug had an acceptable spark but the right plug had only a faint spark--the culprit, and seemingly confirmed by test 1 above.

A new plug was also check and has a better spark than either of the old plugs.

While making the plug check, I tested how far I could pull a spark from the new plug body to the engine block and got a great strong spark at about 1/4".

Summary
--The secondary coil and wires seem fine
--Both plugs had black build up, the right to the point of having a compromised spark.
--Will replace with a couple new YR6LDEs (stock plug) that I have and check cold-starting tomorrow
--In a few days I'm going to install a couple hotter plugs and see how they do.
--The short spark-advance of the twin-spark R1150 requires all four plug to fire well for a clean, strong cold-start.
 
For the secondary ("lower") plugs, both of the plug wires and the secondary side of that ignition coil are all in series - so if one item is weak or intermittent, it will affect both sides. It's easier to fire a good-looking spark in open air than in a compressed cylinder, so you may still be looking at a weak part somewhere in that chain.

Have you pulled the tank to scrutinize that coil? Maybe one of the wires is not seated fully, or has some corrosion under the booty; also check the coil's mounting to the frame (snug & not corroded), since that's the ground return for its center tap (I think...). I don't recall what these wires' and coil static cold DC resistance should be, but while useful to know and a useful first check, that won't be indicative of the dynamic condition.
 
Thanks. The coil and connections look good. I think my richer mixture just needs a little hotter plug there.
 
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