Dead R1100RS - Troubleshooting Tips?

[dieselyoda]

I was going to post a thread on CDN Fuel in a few weeks under Mottorad

Only Master Yoda has even alluded to this, so I'll just throw it out in the open:

Might the valve damage have been caused by too much alcohol in the gas?

This all I know for certainty, apply as you will and argue as much as you want but I have fuel property data developed by SWRI.

As a service manager for a very large equipment manufacturer, I am seeing a ton, literally, of failures on exhaust after-treatment, gas or diesel, catalytic convertors, active resonator and more, like EGR valves. These engines are not oil burners.

I know, gas or diesel, in Canada, the fuel contains a bare minimum of 2% renewable resource. It can be anything from grain squeezings to animal fat squeezings and for all I know, it could be condensed human flatulence effluent. The "may contain %" label at the pump is a crock of .........

Almost all the failures I have seen with exhaust after-treatment have one thing in common. They be cooked like the Prime Rib Elk I BBQ'd two weeks ago when the BBQ caught fire.

I come back to the first thing in the exhaust system, the push portion that goes past the open thing that closes so we get the suck thing happening. If the fuel is cooking and coking the exhaust a foot away from the valve, what's the valve going through??

Next up in my back pocket, pictures of a 5 month old Ford truck with less than 25,000 km that is just having it's third engine being put in.

 

[bwanajames]

Thanks for All Your Help!


The RS coming off the lift after a long illness.

Gentlemen,

This is a long overdue post to give this thread a happy ending. First of all, I want to give thanks to all the knowledgeable and exceedingly help people on this forum. Thanks to you, my beloved RS (my first BMW) has been resurrected from the dead, to once again glide down the road on more adventures.

The heads were sent to Bombar's Beemers, where two left side exhaust valves (chipped) were replaced, seats ground and new seals installed. While I had it apart, I pulled the pistons and installed new rings. All told, I spent about a grand on the project. There were times I wondered if the bike would ever leave the garage again. But now that she is up and running, I feel an enormous sense of satisfaction.

Thanks!

Jim

 

[Omega Man]

Always nice when a thread "finishes up".
Good luck with your efforts.
OM

 

[bwanajames]

Carbon That Killed



Gents,

After posting my "happy ending" story above, I noticed some discussions about carbon build-up and thought you might like to see what killed the exhaust valve. What struck me as odd, was that the carbon was not baked on, but light, granular bits (like grains of sand) that could easily be scraped off with a thumb nail.

At this point, the only prevention appears to be regular doses of Techron - though based on earlier discussions on water injection, I'd be intrigued to know if that can be done in a controlled manner to prevent valve destroying carbon.

Side note: Earlier, valve chipping was blamed on a lean-burn condition, and a Booster Plug recommended to enrich the mixture. However, we now know the Motronic learns to work around the BP trickery. So, I guess I'll be buying an AF-XIED.

Jim

 

[pauls1150]

"granular bits like grains of sand" ... you got that canister disconnected yet? Great news on the resurrection, but don't let it happen again...

 

[rxcrider]

...I also found that water from rain gets under the cap and drains into the canister...

Only if your hoses are hooked up backwards. The water drain hose goes to the ground regardless of whether or not the bike has a charcoal canister. The vent hose is connected to the pipe on the filler neck which breathes through the plastic splash guard inside the tank. - guess that is a bit of a late response - just noticed this thread is a recent resurrection

 

[bwanajames]

Canisterectomy Next - Prevention?

"granular bits like grains of sand" ... you got that canister disconnected yet? Great news on the resurrection, but don't let it happen again...

Paul,

Removing the canister is next on my list! Elsewhere you mentioned that charcoal granuals could be getting sucked down through the vacuum lines, into the injectors and then into the engine. On the off chance that this could be a factor, the canister will soon be coming off.

But I would like to understand the circumstance that created this failure:

• Carbon from natural combustion?
• Canister particles?
• Tuning issue?
• Lean burn condition? (A leading contender, but Roger 04 RT makes an interesting point in post #95 above, where a lean condition could actually be cooler. I'll get my injectors cleaned).
• I've heard of several other instances of valve chipping on BMW bikes. More common with a hotter running air cooled engine? (But car guys - water cooled - chip valves too...).
• Material defect? (brittle?)
• Most likely any or all of the above. I may never know, but can hopefully eliminate the most common causes.

Researching the chipped valve phenomenon, I came across this interesting statement:

"Although it looks like a chip, it sounds like its "Burnt", this can happen due
to many reasons, mixture too lean, piece of some type of crap getting between
the valve and the seat which actually causes a blow torch effect on the valve,
You see this quite regularly on air cooled engines where the temp is quite
high at times."

Jim

 

[tangoalpha]

I do have a suggestion regarding the first order of business though. Before you get deep and distracted with repairs on the RS I would respectfully suggest you install the upgraded timing chain tensioner in your RT and GS, this forum is an outstanding source of information on that upgrade as far as parts and procedure to get it done.

When I met my wife I had 9 bikes with one residing in my living room/great room. Over the five years of our union the bike population in the house has fluctuated between 2 & 4 at a time (currently 2) and the overall bike population has only slightly increased to 25, some post wars, /2's, airheads, a few Triumphs, some Kaw's, a couple oil heads and the most recent being an R Nine T. My problem is a place to keep them. My wife is helping me erect my new steel building/shop so I can have a little more room to play and work with my toys.

I'm truly sorry to have gone off topic but GOSH DARN she is the best, all I did was make sure I bought her a bike to call her own and keep her first bike in the living room after I picked up her second bike.

Keep us posted

Ummm...25 bikes? Wow! Does your wife have a sister?

 

[tangoalpha]

Wow! Really sorry to hear about your bike. Sounds like though you're getting close to discovering the cause of the problem. I have been reading this thread with great interest, taking note of the recommendations from the members on replacing upgraded fuel lines, hall sensor, cam chain tensioner, etc.... As you may know I bought my first RT (an '02) just a couple months ago. So all the past issues that people have had with their current or past bikes and the solutions they've come up with is golden knowledge from where I'm sitting. There's no substitution for experience. So I'm soaking it all up, learning as much as I can to get up to speed. Hopefully by the time something goes wrong with my bike (21k miles currently) I will be better prepared and have some idea of where to start in terms of diagnosing future problems. Like you, I have no intentions of selling my bike, so I guess we're both in it for the long haul.

Good luck with your unintended project. The MOA members are great in sharing their knowledge and resources and it seems like your equipped with the tools and courage to fix the problem. Good luck. I'm sure she will be better than new once she's back on the road again. In the meantime, I'm watching and learning with interest.

View attachment 45123

A guy you never want to meet...

Greetings all,

I've been trying to revive my beloved R1100RS to no avail. I've gone through the basics, but she still won't spring to life. If any of you gurus have any handy suggestions , I'd love to hear them! (P.S. I joined the ranks of the Beemer crowd two years ago, and have found that the people who ride them are half the reason for owning one. Really great folks. Thanks in advance!)

The Bike: 2000 R1100RS with 54k on the clock.

Symptoms/Behavior:

1. At idle, it seemed the bike would "stumble" a bit. It was instantaneous, but noticeable.

2. On a spirited run one day, reaching 90mph, but bike began to sputter, miss and lose power. But as soon as I backed off the throttle, it resumed normal operation.

3. The day it died: I was in the middle of nowhere, and attempting to pass a pick-up truck pulling a long horse trailer. To get around him, I started pouring on the coal. Just as I reached his front bumper (about 80mph) the bike again began to lose power. Backing off the throttle didn't help this time. It died in the act of passing. Fortunately I had enough momentum to get around the truck and coast to the shoulder without getting run over. It never would restart, even when cool (a problematic Hall Effect Sensor (HES) will sometimes allow the bike to restart when cool. And, it was a clear day. No moisture to foul a deteriorating HES). A tow truck was called, and it's been dead ever since.

4. Now that its home, when I attempt to start the bike, the starter motor engages and the engine turns (ruling out faults in the side stand, clutch and kill switches...) but the sound it makes is rather curious: not that of simply an engine spinning, but it makes a "chugging" sound (like its trying to start) often accompanied by a backfire (timing?).

Checking the Basics:

Okay, before we get into this; I'd read a great deal about the known issue of failing HES sensors in the 1100 series (basically Bosch neglected to use high-temp wiring on the unit, leading to insulation degradation, and thus the commonly heard failures while riding in the rain, or just after a Sunday wash, etc.). Though I wasn't seeing the bouncing tach (another tell-tale sign of a failing HES...) when the bike quit, my mind immediately suspected the HES.

But, when I called up Beemer Boneyard to order a new one, I happened to mention what the bike was doing and he said: "Sounds more like a bad coil or leads..."

So, I've now installed the new HES (a good idea anyway...) and swapped in a coil and leads from a bike with half the miles (for testing) and have seen virtually no change in the bike's behavior (dead, chugs, backfires, won't start...)

Spark:

I've attached a spark tester (with the in-line light bulb) and have an orange spark on both cylinders (Actually, it looked a little weak. But I tested running bikes and it looks the same).

Fuel:

Fuel Pump: Turning the key, the whirring sound of the fuel pump pressurizing can be heard. This suggests that the pump is at least functional.
Injector Check: I've detached the fuel injectors and cranked the engine and witnessed a strong spray of atomized fuel. (Fuel starved at wide open throttle? Don't know. The fuel filter has 9k on it. Not new, but far from scheduled replacement. Plus the bike accelerated like a champ prior to dying. But it does seem high rpm related - at least that is when the symptoms showed up.)

Compression:

The bike ran strong until it quit, without any catastrophic sounds/feelings, etc. Even if compression were gone on one cylinder, it would still start/run on one (roughly of course, but it would run...).

Timing:
Beyond the HES, is there anything else that regulates timing? (other than the Motronic, of course...). While setting the HES, I took great pains to make and re-align to scribed baseplate lines from the original HES position, so I doubt it's off much. In fact, I'm told the slot latitude on the HES base plate is so narrow, that even if you adjusted it to the extreme end, the bike should still run...

So, there you have it. Any suggestions?

Jim in Colorado Springs

 

[bwanajames]

Happy Ending

Good luck with your unintended project. The MOA members are great in sharing their knowledge and resources and it seems like your equipped with the tools and courage to fix the problem. Good luck. I'm sure she will be better than new once she's back on the road again. In the meantime, I'm watching and learning with interest.

Tango,

Scroll up to post #102. This adventure in motorcycle mechanics has a happy ending. I resurrected this thread to thank everyone. Great group! Enjoy your new RT. These are fascinating machines.

Jim

 

[tangoalpha]

A happy ending indeed!!

Congratulations on getting her back on the road again. She is a Beaut! I can see why you'd want to keep the old gal around. Hope you enjoy many more fond memories together in the miles ahead.

View attachment 59498
The RS coming off the lift after a long illness.

Gentlemen,

This is a long overdue post to give this thread a happy ending. First of all, I want to give thanks to all the knowledgeable and exceedingly help people on this forum. Thanks to you, my beloved RS (my first BMW) has been resurrected from the dead, to once again glide down the road on more adventures.

The heads were sent to Bombar's Beemers, where two left side exhaust valves (chipped) were replaced, seats ground and new seals installed. While I had it apart, I pulled the pistons and installed new rings. All told, I spent about a grand on the project. There were times I wondered if the bike would ever leave the garage again. But now that she is up and running, I feel an enormous sense of satisfaction.

Thanks!

Jim