1994 R1100RS with 20k miles, - the transmission is worrying me

[lukaspriest]

I'm hoping I can unload my fears on you all! First off, I gotta say shame on me for not doing sufficient research on this model prior to purchasing it and properly learning about the tranny woes of the 94-96 years, though it sounds like there are people who have done tons of miles with no issues. Live and learn!

So, I've been able to put a few hundred miles on this bike, and I think it is just amazing. It plasters the biggest smile on my face every time I roll on the throttle. Its power, speed, and handling are just sublime. I am SO happy with this bike......

.......except, I am worried that it may have something going on with the transmission. But here's the thing - I don't know whether it's "just how these bikes are" or if it's a sign of something bad going on. I'm hoping you fine folks can help me figure that out.

What I'm experiencing
I'm able to shift through all the gears no problem, and I don't seem to have any issues finding neutral or keeping the bike in gear. The thing that is worming its way into my paranoid head is how this bike shifts from 2nd to 3rd. All the other gears feel pretty smooth and happy. But when I up-shift into 3rd, it just doesn't feel smooth. How do I describe it? I've seen the term "notchy" or maybe I could call it a bit crunchy, but that seems perhaps overly dramatic......I feel like I get unnatural feedback in the shift pedal when I shift it up to 3rd, and I don't sense that with any of the other gears. I only notice it when I up-shift; going down to 2nd is no problem, and shifting from 4th to 3rd is no problem. Here's what's driving me crazy - sometimes it feels smooth and easy, and other times I feel that feedback through my boot when I'm shifting it up. Since I began to worry about this, I read other posts about "pre-loading" and it's a skill that I've been working to build. I will say that when I preload successfully, it seems to shift no problem at all. But if I do a "conventional" shift at higher RPM's (roll off throttle, pull in clutch lever completely, shift up), then it's likely to give me that not-so-nice sensation.

Am I being overly paranoid? Do these bikes just have a finicky transmission that has to be lovingly and artfully shifted - and I just need to up my skill level? Or is what I'm experiencing a sign of serious trouble? I was planning to do some investment in this bike (SS brakelines, a new HES, and some other things), but if this sounds like hallmark transmission failure in progress, that will make me reevaluate things. Ultimately, I just want a bike that I can do some serious long distance touring on.

As I said in my other post, I have an appointment with Mitch this week, so I'll seek his knowledge about it and see what he ultimately says, but I would love to hear what you all think in the meantime.

Thank you in advance!

 

[m_stock10506]

As a new Oilhead rider, new BMW owner, (you, not me) this is a learning experience. What I hear you describing is not worrisome to me.

Yes, learning to preload the shifts will help. Don't pull the clutch lever all the way in. Get a feel for the spot where the clutch starts to release and try to make the shift there without pulling in the lever further. These BMW transmissions are described as "agricultural" for a reason. They don't just "snick" into gear like other bike vendors. I could get into greasing the transmission splines, but it doesn't sound like you need to worry about that yet.

 

[robsryder]

I have a 94 R1100RS purchased new in 94. It has the original transmission. With the airhead BMW bikes I found it useful to add a "dollop" (officially calls for 5% by vol.) of molybdenum disulfide to the 80w-90 gl5 (non-synthetic) transmission oil. I mostly continue this practice for the R1100RS. [Sometimes I will add 80w-140 synthetic transmission oil when replacing the transmission oil.]

I have found shifting problems occur when I am tired and fail to make a "proper" shift. A proper shift involves pulling in the clutch, attempting to have the rpms near the anticipated target on shifting (either up or down), and slowly and deliberately operating the shift lever with my boot (can usually feel the "clunk" when the gears engage).

It is hard to find the product containing molybdenum disulfide that I have long used (called Dow Gear Guard M). More recent versions had a label referring to this stuff as "molykote". Boxer2valve has a Liqui-Moly product that contains MoS2 for use with transmission oil. I have some of this and will be using it at my upcoming fluid change for my R1100RS.

Liqui Moly - MoS2 Anti-Friction for Gears

Check out the deal on Liqui Moly - MoS2 Anti-Friction for Gears at boxer2valve.com Parts for Classic BMW Motorcycles

www.boxer2valve.com

Also available from the 'Zon for a bit lower price -

https://www.amazon.com/LIQUI-MOLY-Antifriction-Gears-additive/dp/B00CPL8UPY/ref=sr_1_55?sr=8-55

 

[lukaspriest]

As a new Oilhead rider, new BMW owner, (you, not me) this is a learning experience. What I hear you describing is not worrisome to me.

Yes, learning to preload the shifts will help. Don't pull the clutch lever all the way in. Get a feel for the spot where the clutch starts to release and try to make the shift there without pulling in the lever further. These BMW transmissions are described as "agricultural" for a reason. They don't just "snick" into gear like other bike vendors. I could get into greasing the transmission splines, but it doesn't sound like you need to worry about that yet.

Thank you so much for your kind reply! I've been kind of sick to my stomach about it, as getting a bike like this has been a dream of mine, and I didn't want it spoiled by dealing with a major mechanical issue right away. Yes, when I don't pull the clutch lever all the way and pull it "just enough" is when it shifts the smoothest. Your response was very comforting to read!

 

[lukaspriest]

I have a 94 R1100RS purchased new in 94. It has the original transmission. With the airhead BMW bikes I found it useful to add a "dollop" (officially calls for 5% by vol.) of molybdenum sulfide to the 80w-90 gl5 (non-synthetic) transmission oil. I mostly continue this practice for the R1100RS. [Sometimes I will add 80w-140 synthetic transmission oil when replacing the transmission oil.]

I have found shifting problems occur when I am tired and fail to make a "proper" shift. A proper shift involves pulling in the clutch, attempting to have the rpms near the anticipated target on shifting (either up or down), and slowly and deliberately operating the shift lever with my boot (can usually feel the "clunk" when the gears engage).

It is hard to find the product containing molybdenum sulfide that I have long used (called Dow Gear Guard M). More recent versions had a label referring to this stuff as "molykote". Boxer2valve has a Liqui-Moly product that contains MoS2 for use with transmission oil. I have some of this and will be using it at my upcoming fluid change for my R1100RS.

Liqui Moly - MoS2 Anti-Friction for Gears

Check out the deal on Liqui Moly - MoS2 Anti-Friction for Gears at boxer2valve.com Parts for Classic BMW Motorcycles

www.boxer2valve.com

Also available from the 'Zon for a bit lower price -

https://www.amazon.com/LIQUI-MOLY-Antifriction-Gears-additive/dp/B00CPL8UPY/ref=sr_1_55?sr=8-55

Thank you once again for your reply, as I've been pretty worried about this. With this bike, when I do a "proper" shift as you describe, it doesn't feel good unless I use the "pre-load" procedure. If I slowly and deliberately operate the shift lever, it feels like it gives an instant of resistance/kickback, and I don't get a nice low sounding "clunk." If I use the preload method properly, it feels smooth and seamless.

I totally plan on getting some of this Moly stuff and seeing how it works!

Much gratitude.

 

[robsryder]

... it doesn't feel good unless I use the "pre-load" procedure. If I slowly and deliberately operate the shift lever, it feels like it gives an instant of resistance/kickback, and I don't get a nice low sounding "clunk." If I use the preload method properly, it feels smooth and seamless....

Yes, the "pre-loading" of the shift lever is also part of what I consider a "proper" shift. I've been doing this for so long with airheads, that it just seems like second nature.

 

[pauls1150]

I still use the Dow Gear-Guard M. It looks like DuPont either makes the same stuff or has re-branded Dow's bottle.
For info on what's actually inside the tranny, have a look at Anton's website -
http://www.largiader.com/tech/oiltrans/
and also the Interview With Getrag link at the bottom of that page.

 

[lukaspriest]

I still use the Dow Gear-Guard M. It looks like DuPont either makes the same stuff or has re-branded Dow's bottle.
For info on what's actually inside the tranny, have a look at Anton's website -
http://www.largiader.com/tech/oiltrans/
and also the Interview With Getrag link at the bottom of that page.

Thank you for the fabulous info, it was really interesting to read! Let's say the worst happens and I do need to get the tranny rebuilt; is Anton still rebuilding them? Looks like about $1600 for that to be done, how many hours of labor to get one pulled and put back in?

Edit: Ahh, I just did a little googling and it sounds like he is indeed still in business.

 

[kbasa]

They're noisy and unless you preload the shifter and give it a solid, like you mean it shift, it'll be a bit recalcitrant. We put about 80K miles on my wife's 94 RSL and the gearbox was noisy, but it did what we wanted it to do reliably.

Some folks had their gearboxes recalled, but the subsequent transmissions were quieter, but broke more.

I'd live with it and if it croaks, you can update it to a later version with a trans out of a boneyard or something.

 

[lukaspriest]

They're noisy and unless you preload the shifter and give it a solid, like you mean it shift, it'll be a bit recalcitrant. We put about 80K miles on my wife's 94 RSL and the gearbox was noisy, but it did what we wanted it to do reliably.

Some folks had their gearboxes recalled, but the subsequent transmissions were quieter, but broke more.

I'd live with it and if it croaks, you can update it to a later version with a trans out of a boneyard or something.

Thank you for your reply! Yeah, I had a good chat with Mitch today about it, and he echoed what everyone here has told me. I honestly don't care how it sounds as long as I know that working the way it's supposed to. I'm going over to his place this week and we're going to dump the tranny fluid and inspect it for telltale metal shavings. If it comes out lookin' all right, I'm going to move forward with stainless steel brake lines and some other important maintenance issues to get her purring like a kitten. I ordered some Liqui Moly that @robsryder suggested to squirt in her for when we fill her back up. If it appears that things are NOT good, I'll probably be reaching out to Anton over at Virginia Motorrad Werkstatt to have him rebuild it for me.

Thank you again to everyone here who has replied to my thread!

 

[DavidEBSmith]

FWIW I've had 2 Oilhead RTs and both of them the 2->3 shift was chunky and sometimes missed. One of them I had the transmission worked on twice - once because I found a broken wave washer in the drained oil, and once when the driveshaft broke and bent the output shaft - and it made no difference as to that 2->3 shift.

Both of them did that for 100+K miles.

 

[lukaspriest]

FWIW I've had 2 Oilhead RTs and both of them the 2->3 shift was chunky and sometimes missed. One of them I had the transmission worked on twice - once because I found a broken wave washer in the drained oil, and once when the driveshaft broke and bent the output shaft - and it made no difference as to that 2->3 shift.

Both of them did that for 100+K miles.

@DavidEBSmith Ahh bless you! The more I hear from the wonderful people here and read up on this, the more I'm convinced that my fears are unfounded. I'm thinking it's gonna be OK! I appreciate all of you.

I'll report back tomorrow after my meeting with Mitch and let you all know what we discover!

Update: crazy rain and lightning here prevented me from going today, I've rescheduled with him for Thursday. So excited!

 

[fbt80]

2003 R1100s = Neutral to 1st sounds like rocks in a tin can regardless of how you do it. 1st. to second ...(while turning) has to be preloaded or shifted really purposely or good chance of getting false neutral. Will always do it when you know people are watching...

 

[m_stock10506]

I'll report back tomorrow after my meeting with Mitch and let you all know what we discover!

If Mitch is a decent mechanic, he should have no problem removing and reinstalling the starter motor. Should add about 20-30 minutes to his work. When he has the starter off, there will be an opening where he can look into and see the splines and the hub on the clutch plate. With a very small brush, have him "paint" spline grease onto the joint where the clutch hub meets against the input splines. Rotate the wheel in gear so that the spline area gets painted over the entire circumference. Just paint it, don't glob it on or it will get flung off onto the clutch. When you start riding again, every time you pull in the clutch lever, the plate will move on the splines and it will touch the grease and pull it under and into the mating surface between the splines and the clutch hub. By the time you ride about 50 miles with gear changes, you should feel a smoother gear change. I've been doing this on my RT for over 150k miles.

 

[lukaspriest]

I love this. I am totally going to print this off and see if I can have him do this. From what I understand, he is a VERY capable and respected mechanic.

 

[fbt80]

That's a cool tip, I need to pull the starter to clean the insides and while its off I'll lube the splines that way as well.

 

[lukaspriest]

So, I thought I would report back! Yesterday I got together with Mitch to look at my bike and put together a game plan for making sure it's serviced, safe, and roadworthy. First off, Mitch is an absolute delight - it was evident within moments that this dude knows his stuff, he had a beautiful & clean shop, and I am so grateful he's willing to work on my bike. He gave the bike a thorough inspection, and then the first thing we did was dump the tranny oil. I was scared to death that it was going to be an avalanche of metal flakes and shards, but it was clean as a whistle! Spotless. I can't overstate my happiness in confirming that my transmission isn't grinding itself to dust and that realistically, it's fine. Clearly I was freaking out over nothing and failing to understand how these transmissions really do have an agricultural/tractor-like feel to them. He refilled the tranny with fresh oil and added some moly to it. We'll be doing Spiegler brake lines and installing some bar risers (nothing drastic), which, in addition to a longer brake line, will also likely need a longer clutch cable, perhaps from an RT. Other than those two things, we're also going to replace two rubber intake boots (I think that's what they're called?) going into the cylinders, as the bike had a very subtle air leak discovered by a minute rise in rpm when he sprayed some starting fluid on that area while the bike was running. He went through all the service history paperwork and it turned out he personally knew the prior owner and said that the guy was borderline obsessive (in the best way) about taking care of and maintaining the bike - wonderful news indeed! In summary, he told me that I had a SUPER clean bike and said that this thing was would be ready to take me across the continent! I must again lavish praise on Mitch, this dude is just AWESOME. Thank you again to everyone here for being so kind and responsive!

 

[Omega Man]

Great news!
Thanks for reporting back how you made out.
OM

 

[bluehole]

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your RS journey. This is good news. I know it must feel good not to be worrying about your motorcycle.

 

[lukaspriest]

Thank you @Omega Man and @bluehole ! It is such a relief. When I first got it, I was absolutely euphoric until I started getting this sinking feeling when I was (most unnecessarily) worrying about the gearbox. Now that I know that the bike is sound, I am just full of joy and optimism of getting it truly dialed in and ready to carry me to amazing locales and vistas. Can't wait! Did I mention Mitch is awesome? 'Cause Mitch is awesome. I'll report back in a few weeks once we get her all finished up.